@Meddler From an Anivia Main

RyanTheRat·Apr 20, 2016·11 votes·1,677 views

http://i.imgur.com/MAQEFGS.jpg

Dear Meddler,

As you know, Anivia's ult now grows over 3 seconds, according to the just released mid year mage update.

I have a question about this change as an Anivia main who cares deeply about his favorite bird.

Will Anivia receive range compensation for the smaller starting ult?

What the update page didn't mention was that her ult now starts at the size of her Q (roughly) and SLOWLY expands over 3 seconds. This severly hurts her ability to land E+R or R+E combos in terms of range, weakening her laning phage significantly. I totally get that you want Anivia's R to be more than "use this to proc your E" in teamfights and lategame, but I don't see why it should come as a huge expense to her early game.

Sincerely, A struggling Anivia main

(Credits to my friend for the PBE photo)

EDIT: Apparently the attack speed slow is also gone.

16 Comments

Derpy MikeApr 20, 20167 votes

What the update page didn't mention was that her ult now starts at the size of her Q

Wow what the fuck, seriously? That's a rather fucking important piece of information to neglect mentioning.

LostFr0stApr 20, 20163 votes

OP, I'm not certain but did they also remove the att spd slow?

RyanTheRatApr 20, 20163 votes

That's... not ok for her current tradeoff.

LostFr0stApr 20, 20161 votes

I realize that, which is why I asked. Here's hoping we get a riot response on it or someone tests it since it was a big reason to pick her vs some comps. I can't test it right now since pbe has literally 985 ping right now.
You also can't double tap the ult anymore so I have to relearn the deactivation timer -_-"

RyanTheRatApr 20, 20162 votes

I'm hoping for a response too. I haven't been doing well with her in this meta, and mages that outrange her aren't exactly her forte either.

LostFr0stApr 20, 20161 votes

Well I know that lost chapter feels pretty darn good on her and I saw a post by another Anivia main that said the new gapclose item was really good so idk yet.
The smaller zone combined with the same cost and lower range (since it starts so small) feels bad though but I can't keep testing it right now since its unplayable. I strongly agree that her early game is going to be a struggle since she already had trouble hitting mobile targets (combined with the chill debuff changes from a few patches ago). This will also slow her waveclear substantially and make it cost more since she has to charge it to full to get the aoe ult+Q to clear the wave.

JerulEonApr 20, 20163 votes

Oh damn. I was expecting a size more akin to Aurelion Sol's Q or it would start at the original size and it would get as Zyra's ult.

Kinda thrown off by the huge trade-off Riot is implementing.

MEMEME670Apr 20, 20163 votes

Honestly, I think the stun duration buff and the ult effect at 3 seconds are pretty fair tradeoffs for the initial size nerf.

Sure, you lose R>E combos, but honestly those were fairly dumb to begin with. If an enemy was in the range of e he just took the doubled damage and it cost you basically nothing, which isn't how Anivia or her E is designed to work.

Dark NephthysApr 20, 20164 votes

{quoted}

Honestly, I think the stun duration buff and the ult effect at 3 seconds are pretty fair tradeoffs for the initial size nerf.

Sure, you lose R>E combos, but honestly those were fairly dumb to begin with. If an enemy was in the range of e he just took the doubled damage and it cost you basically nothing, which isn't how Anivia or her E is designed to work.

It does cost her stuff, just doing that alone cost her a lot of mana and that is the bulk of her damage especially if you can walk out of her ult or if she only used it to chill you, giving you a window to fight her back when her E and R are both on cool down. With how slow and predictable her Q is, her R>E combo was her only reliable damage trade which now is going to be much much harder to use since her ult's size is extremely low.

I'm not mad that they're decreasing the size of the radius when you first use it, but for the fact of the amount they are decreasing it. Losing 65% of the size of the ult is huge and even when it ramps up to the full 3 seconds, it's still not even higher than live's size. Basically we have to leave it out for 3 seconds to basically get the same effect of what it's like right now.

If they reverted the nerfs to her ult from a few patches ago (how chill from her ultimate only lasts for 1 second now, when it used to be 2) then maybe this wouldn't be so bad, but now it's very hard to get them with your E from the chill of your ultimate.

MEMEME670Apr 20, 20162 votes

but now it's very hard to get them with your E from the chill of your ultimate.

This is the whole point of the change, and I agree with this.

Anivia's design isn't supposed to be about walking up and nuking someone, and she's not a character that should have such a strong, instant, and targetted burst option available to her.

She has other strengths. It is possible this change will leave her underpowered, but if it does, I do believe we'll see buffs to other parts of Anivia's kit, rather than anything that makes instant R>E any easier.

Dark NephthysApr 20, 20162 votes

{quoted}

This is the whole point of the change, and I agree with this.

Anivia's design isn't supposed to be about walking up and nuking someone, and she's not a character that should have such a strong, instant, and targetted burst option available to her.

She has other strengths. It is possible this change will leave her underpowered, but if it does, I do believe we'll see buffs to other parts of Anivia's kit, rather than anything that makes instant R>E any easier.

If that was really the main point of the change to her ultimate, wouldn't it just be smarter/easier to just straight up replace her E for a new skill in general like one that still does decent damage and adds another form of utility/zone?

Not entirely saying I would of wanted that, but it probably would of been a bit more easier then just harshly reducing the size of the ultimate which makes it really hard to use your E reliably unless you wait a few seconds with your ultimate which will make Anivia even more mana hungry then she already was, and right after they practically removed mana regen for those who liked it on her. (I personally always went with the flat mana unless I was playing Support Anivia)

I think they should at least reduce the mana cost of her ultimate. Since her ultimate costs 75 + 40/50/60 a second. So it'll cost 135 mana for a rank 3 ultimate that is active for only 1 second. With the reduce in size, you'll probably have it out for the 3 seconds (to make it back to live size) just to clear a wave or 2 in the late game which would cost like 255 mana on top of the huge item 3027 nerfs of it losing 400 mana, it can get annoying in the late game clearing minions and saving towers, which is suppose to be one of her strongest strengths.

RevaliApr 20, 20162 votes

Blackfrost, no respect.

Derpy MikeApr 20, 20162 votes

Here's a full list of the Anivia changes.

Basic Attack -Particle cleanup (mostly just smaller, less noisy) -Missile speed:: 1400 >>> 1500 -Cast bone updated! (This only affects her second attack animation. Should come out of her wing now instead of center of body)

Q -AP ratio reduced:: 0.5 >>> 0.4 -Base damage reduced:: 60/90/120/150/180 >>> 60/85/110/135/160 -Stun duration scales:: 1 >>> 1.1/1.2/1.3/1.4/1.5 -Slow increased:: 20% >>> 20/30/40% But scales with R rank -Improved damage display type on Q2 to better differentiate it from the pass through damage. Impact damage display type. -Q stun particle now visible to everyone (power hidden behind low clarity is bad)

E -Missile speed:: 1200 >>> 1600 -Particle has been improved (better "hitbox," slightly smaller, twirls so it's pretty) -Cast range increased:: 650 >>> 600 but edge to edge (matches AA - Roughly 35 range increase)

R -Now has a cast animation -Now expands from 150-400 radius over 3 seconds -MS slow increased:: 20% >>> 20/30/40% -Cast range increased:: 625 >>> 685 (matches AA) -AS slow removed -At max size, damages and slows by an additional 50% and Chills for 2 seconds

Copy-pasted from https://www.reddit.com/r/AniviaMains/comments/4fj5dz/midyear_mage_update_mentions_incoming_buffs_for/d29nmju

RyanTheRatApr 20, 20161 votes

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the cast range increase doesn't seem nearly as large as the initial radius decrease.

Derpy MikeApr 20, 20163 votes

You're not wrong. An extra +60 range to the cast radius hardly makes up for the 250 range that's lost for the first 3 seconds on the radius of the ability. And with the changes to mana regen have fun never even being able to channel the ult for the full 3 seconds for the first 3/4ths of the game because you'll oom and never regen it back.

It's so dumb this whole god damn midseason update is fucking retarded. I don't even play mid and it's pissing me off.

Kitten of EvilApr 20, 20161 votes

From the Dev Corner:

Anivia

What we’re happy with:

Strategic niche as a zone-control mage with R and W feels well-defined. Feels very thematically tied to Ice

What we’re less happy with:

Effortless waveclear makes her hard to interact with when strong ‘Feels old’ from a usability standpoint. Anivia’s one of our first champions and it shows.

What we hope to see coming out of the update:

Focus her strategic niche by increasing the power and game health of her zone control Improve her usability so she feels crisp to play

This ult change doesn't really increase the power of her zone control (unless she can burn 250+ mana to sit with it active for 3 seconds) In contrast with the other changes that do make her more usable and crisp, this ult change actually seems clunkier. It's already got some pretty serious drawbacks (mana hungry, can't be moved once placed, is channeled and can be interrupted) that this does not address. I guess it does fix the "effortless waveclear" problem, but it really seems to be a misfire in terms of their design direction.

I could see it being 2/3 the original size and scaling up, or something to make it a bit harder to drop and forget, but this starting AOE is pitiful and telegraphed so that anybody can easily walk away.