How New Masteries Made this Game Even More Inaccessible @RiotRep

0xxMasterYixx0··11 votes·1,409 views

First of all yeah @RiotRep is because you seem to be the only Rioter who seems to give half a crap about responding to boards with any frequency. I apologize for my saltiness ahead of time, the lack of any Riot response (at any time of the year, no "but world's" excuses) has worn me, and I'm pretty sure a lot of other people too, down.

Here's the deal. Yes this is a smurf account, but I didn't make it to "stomp" low level games. Me and some friends each have made new "single-champ" accounts to see how far we can get as a team in ranked playing with the exact same team composition. After playing on this and several other accounts lately, I've found the new player experience is worse than ever.

There's always been that trouble of not letting people use smite and therefore keep them from jungling/using jungle items until level 10, and how the difference in runes can lead to some early game advantages to no fault of the losing player, but the preseason mastery changes have completely screwed over any low-level, and ESPECIALLY new players.

The fact that you will play with level 18+'s far before you get to 18 yourself means that they will have a MASSIVE advantage over you in the form of keystone masteries. Simply having access to thunderlord's decree when your lane opponent has nothing to bring to the fight like it means trades almost always go in the higher-level's favor EVEN if the lower-level plays better. I'm no challenger player, but I've got ~5k games total under my belt. I'm struggling to win against players who are legit new at this game simply because their account has access to a completely new power level I am not allowed to access.

This makes it harder than ever to level up new accounts, or to bring someone new into the game when they're met with that brick wall around levels 9-10.

"If you know so much and have played so much you should know how to play from behind"

Well yeah, I do. But for someone who has a decent amount of experience like me, to have this much trouble in an experience for new players shows just how amazingly toxic it is for someone to try and join this community now.

Forget any toxicity from players, you can mute them. Forget any slight number's differences from runes/masteries/summoner spells, they are usually manageable enough, and tend to fall off as builds start to become completed and the number's differences grow smaller. Forget not letting newer players go jungle, I mean it's extremely difficult without a full set of runes and masteries anyways.

BUT

Giving high-leveled players passive/passive-active abilities that can be abused to create large advantages where there shouldn't be takes it one step too far. I've given up on trying to introduce some of my friends to this game because of horrible the new player experience makes it look.

I understand it's cheaper and easier to maintain the community you already have then to appeal to new ones. You have the number one game in the entire world. However players will quit and move on, and you need people to replace them, and I really think (even with a lot of bs that goes on) that you guys deserve to have a thriving community for a LONG time. You've built something amazing.

Just remember how everybody started, and how each season this game becomes less and less accessible for new players. Not because of the game itself, but because of artificial limits that don't help the player learn, they restrict their ability to. And most importantly, their ability to have fun while doing so.

Thanks for taking the time to read my wall of text, have a great day on the rift :)

TL;DR New masteries are balanced if everyone has access to keystones, not being level 18 puts new players at an artificially bigger disadvantage than even standard runes and masteries do without regard to skill.

15 Comments

Drakusatheon4 votes

I agree that learning the game while missing ALL the tools they will have later in the game seems antiquated in the new setup. Keystones are so necessary and change the game in such a major way that not having them against someone who does means that they have an unfair advantage that you can't make up, especially when you're trying to learn. You don't learn against doom bots.

It very similar to how I felt when I was leveling up back in open beta. I was frustrated and annoyed at my lower levels because whenever I saw someone with summoner 4 I almost immediately accepted defeat because back at this time, gap-closers and blinks were a relative rarity. It was an unfair advantage I had to slog through until I got it myself, and it was discouraging.

0xxMasterYixx01 votes

Flash, ignite, SMITE, those spells single-handedly change a lot of games and should be taught how to be used from the beginning. If anything, they should leave those spells as they are while BUFFING the others to meet them at their level. That way everyone gets a variety of options without anyone losing anything.

AyRe CoNteMpT3 votes

seriously, i didnt think about new-player-experience with the new masteries and so didnt rito. only difference is that its not my fucking job to think about these things but i think its a PERFECT example of how rito thinks things through.

the old masteries we had were pretty good. they were really diverse and you could have tons of different mastery-builds and i even saw people going 15/15 and there was decent mastery setups for every single champion in the game. no champion was like "Omg the masteries suck for me i dont want them". you coulda reworked some masteries and maybe even added some more and it wouldve been super mega beautiful.

but no, they rework the ENTIRE MASTERY SYSTEM and make it into a big pile of shit that takes forever to balance again. i mean THE GAME WAS PRETTY DAMN BALANCED BY THE END OF SEASON 5. now its just a joke (again).

sure its fucking preseason but why cant we have a balanced game for more than two month? like why do we have to burn all balance we created during an entire year?

rememeber, the season 5 masteries were allready reworked so rito was like "hm hey the old masteries suck so we make new ones" and now they did the same thing again so they kinda admitted that their old masteries sucked. why cant they admit mistakes more often and ask the community for help? i really dont know how many people work at rito but at least one of them had to be able to realize that this keystone thing was a pretty bad idea.

god, i could keep on complaining all day long. bring back s5 masteries, update them and all good. you can even add keystones at the end of them or so, my god. i dont know. so many possibilities.

give me control of the mastery system and ill make you a perfect one within a month.

0xxMasterYixx02 votes

After getting used to the mastery changes I don't think they are better or worse than last season's. Just different.

The problem lies in that since their changes they are balanced around the keystones, and the keystones are balanced around the other keystones. It's a massive advantage to have keystones when your opponent doesn't in an already close game.

That's the one advantage old masteries actually had, which was avoiding this huge powerspike that divides the new players into the "haves" and "have nots".

AyRe CoNteMpT4 votes

yeha well you are right but that is exactly what leads to my problem: the old masteries had REALLY strong masteries in every single slot. they had alot of damage increasing masteries and very nice utility but it was useful for all champions and there were tons of individual masteries.

right now, they had the "idea" to make every choice meaningful (as if it wasnt before) and to encourage more diversity. well fuck, it didnt work. and it certainly wont work ever.

if you put so much power into individual masteries, not only you have to make the other masteries weaker (which sucks because even tho it might put more meaning into choice of keystones, it puts less into choice of every other mastery) and also you will have simple facts of which mastery is better for which champion.

mastery X is simply mathematically BETTER for you than mastery Y, there is no choice involved. you either pick this mastery or you miss out on potential. ofc you can pick Y and be this cool hipster but fuck its worse than X.

for example, in season 5 i was (still am) the best shyvana player in europe and you can think i checked out most other shyvana players in the world to see what they do and how they do it and believe it, not a single meaningful player in the entire world had the same masteries i had and ofcourse i had my masteries because i believed they were the best you could get. i thought about my masteries alot and improved them bit by bit until i found that perfect setup.

this alone is proof that the old masteries had extreme diversity and individual value.

okay now to lead over to your point: since there was absolutely zero need to introduce entirely new mastery-trees (especially with these flawed thematics), it makes it even worse that they forgot the new-player-experience here.

i think the optimal change would be to revoke the mastery change because look, if you just make masteries available from lvl 1 it takes away the leveling-up experience. you could just remove this leveling up bullshit entirely but that would probably take away from the learning curve and the overall game experience and would also make leveled-up accounts less valuable.

i mean league has a really weird system anyways and now with the keystones they made their weird system into a shit system so you can either rework the entire system or simply rework the element that made your weirdness into shitness.

0xxMasterYixx01 votes

I disagree on one point of yours, which is that giving people access to masteries would take away from the learning curve. I think it actually is detrimental now, because each point in a mastery, unless its a keystone, is individually so weak now I've seen new players not take any masteries, not bothering to update them because they feel so useless and not worth the effort.

Of course they arent useless, they just dont FEEL like it, especially for a new player.

Maybe make a compromise by giving players enough mastery points to fill one entire tier on their page? That way they grow but each group of points they put in feels better to them, and gives them chance to practice with full mastery pages before they get to level 30.

AyRe CoNteMpT2 votes

nah, compromising like that just makes the system even more shitty. really i stick with my solution: just fucking revoke the mastery-rework, it was shit anyways and it also solves your problem.

0xxMasterYixx01 votes

But I don't think the mastery rework was bad, in fact I think it was a bit like "controversial" universal healthcare in the US. A great idea, but not implemented the best.

Having more visible masteries where every choice feels more impactful, I feel, is healthier and more exciting. HOWEVER, every option on the same tier has to be equal for that to work, and currently some are just flat out better than others in 99% of cases which limits diversity. If they slightly buffed lower ones or moved them around so you had to choose between equal power ones, and made the other keystones FEEL as good as thunderlord's to use then almost all the problems with the new system would disappear.

AyRe CoNteMpT1 votes

well the problem is that now so much power is in the keystones that all other masteries are weak and stupid.

like, you have alot of these +% damage masteries that are very powerful and then you have all these shitty things like tier 1+3 in ferocity and tier 1+4 in cunning where it literally doesnt matter what you pick because they are just shit.

if you want all masteries to be interesting, just make them more impactful and individual. all these +% damage are STRONG but they are not interesting. in season 5 i felt like every choice was meaningfull because all masteries gave really nice damage increase or stats or utility so it was really important what you picked but right now, its either all % damage or useless shit + you got the imbalanced keystones.

i feel like they didnt decide how strong they want keystones to be and just threw in some random ideas. they could say like "we want a keystone to be as strong as a regular abiliy" or as a passive or even an ultimate but then they would have to make it consistent.

right now, fervor of battle and thunderlords are mega strong damage masteries while the others are mediocre at best. like first they buffed stormraiders to be like a small version of master yis ultimate (slow immunity) and then they nerfed it to 70% which is useless. they really need to be more consistent. like im telling you, i could do it better.

BobbyCarHaterX3 votes

Riot will ignore this post anyways. Cause its the truth.

windwolf7772 votes

Give everyone everything from the start. Forget the rune system, forget the limiting masteries to 1 per level, just give us all the champs, and make money from skins

0xxMasterYixx01 votes

Giving all the champs is a bit much in my opinion, part of league has always been unlocking and learning new champions. To forget the rune system would also require the complete rebalancing of the entire game and especially early because of how much they actually affect gameplay.

windwolf7771 votes

I understand that. If you go through my posts you'd see I'm a dota player as well, so you can see where I'd say that from ^_^

0xxMasterYixx02 votes

Yes yes, honestly I do believe it would be beneficial if all players had access to all champs, but talking on a realistic standpoint we cannot expect Riot to change that many fundamentals of the "out of game" experience so quickly. I think masteries would be a good place to start.

windwolf7771 votes

I see what you mean. I agree with both rune slots, and masteries. I mean, tier 1 runes are a trap and we should only have t3 and all rune slots, and all masteries at level 1.

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