Now that DFG is being removed, do you guys think she will be reverted back to her previous state (before the kiss of death change)? In my opinion Ahri was fine in terms of balance before the kiss of death change, of course excluding DFG. Even before the DFG build was popular, she functioned more like a poke/clean up mage rather than a full on burst assassin. I would be happy to see her mage/dps side make a comeback. What do you guys think?
RiotMeddler26 votesWe are testing some changes to Ahri that support the kite mage pattern she used to use sometimes. Those changes (not guaranteed, but being experimented with at the moment) include things like removing the damage amp on charm, buffing her other damage sources and giving her a speed boost while her Q's in the air to allow more reposition plays and kiting while casting.
Rock MD4 votesWe are testing some changes to Ahri that support the kite mage pattern she used to use sometimes. Those changes (not guaranteed, but being experimented with at the moment) include things like removing the damage amp on charm, buffing her other damage sources and giving her a speed boost while her Q's in the air to allow more reposition plays and kiting while casting.
Meddler, as someone who has played her multiple times without DFG during this preseason I would like to say that I've found her to be in an almost perfect spot. I strongly feel that she doesn't require any sort of compensation buffs.
Hell, the only reason I do go DFG now is because it's hilarious seeing how much damage I can deal.
Aèrith6 votesShe might not be that bad without DFG, but I feel like she would be in an awkward spot if they just left her like that. She would be a mage that had medicode dps/aoe damage and a mediocre assassin.
Rock MD6 votesShe might not be that bad without DFG, but I feel like she would be in an awkward spot if they just left her like that. She would be a mage that had medicode dps/aoe damage and a mediocre assassin.
You're kidding, right?
The whole point of Ahri is that she's got mage qualities such as poke and waveclear AND assassin qualities such as mobility and assassination potential.
You can't have her be top tier in both of them.
The fact that she's tier 2 in both qualities is what makes her, IMO, a tier 1 champ. You can effortlessly swap playstyle depending on the way the game is swaying.
Also, if you're going to go without DFG you need Athene's or Morello's and CDR/lvl glyphs. Or double Morello's. Hitting CDR cap is what makes this so effective.
darkdill18 votesDefinitely keep the "kiss of death" damage amplification. It really fits for Ahri, IMO, in making her gameplay fun.
As for your whole "speed boost while Q is in flight", why not put said speed boost on Ahri's Foxfire instead? Something like this:
Each time Foxfire hits an enemy Champion, Ahri gets a stacking MS boost for a brief time.
This, I feel, would make Foxfire a bit less boring (presently, all it does is damage and nothing else) and give you a potential reason to level it earlier. Plus it would help Ahri's issue on having NO mobility without Spirit Rush.
5G8Nri0B5413 votesAnything for her W beyond numbers?
It's easily one of the most "it's just there" in her kit and among AP mids. There doesn't appear to be any strategic use for it beyond "press W to do automatically do damage"
I'll be branded a heretic for this, but it feels like a snazzier version of Heimer's pre-rework rockets. You press it, and it flies off to targets. Nothing to really do with or against it. Nothing exciting at all.
(I will concede that it looks cool when she uses it along with her R back when her R had no cooldown inbetween dashes though...but that's it)
RiotMeddler13 votesLong term: We'd love to spice that up a bit, with you that it's useful but could be more interesting.
Short term: Nothing major planned. We're looking at small changes to her as DFG follow up and kite pattern support, not significant changes to core functionality of skills right now.
Pokeprof17 votesOk, am I the ONLY one who thinks not every damn ability needs to be meaningful/decision making or require the player to think in thirteen different ways? Not every champion in the game has to have the same skill cap of Lee sin! It's perfectly fine to have characters with a Point and click spell, or a 'Don't get near me unless you want to take damage effect'. Just because skill shots and complicated abilities can show more 'skill' doesn't make them any better or the champion in question any more fun.
It seems as lately that this, along with mobility, is where Riot keeps on missing the mark. If a character can't have complicated actions that requires you to think twenty steps ahead or mobility to keep up, they're just not worth much.
RiotMeddler15 votesI'm with you there, both on the value of non champion defining skills sometimes being fairly simple (e.g. Rek'Sai's burrowed Q) and that Ahri's W's an example of such a skill. Even on a simple skill though I'd argue there's a lot of value in adding a bit of distinctiveness/ways to optimize things a bit more. Putting something there basically to enable a person that's played 200 games on Ahri to pull off the occasional cool play with Foxfire that a player with only 20 games might not be aware of or able to execute at the right time. Using Vayne's tumble directly into a piece of terrain to AA as soon as possible's a good example of that to my mind. A lot of the time it's not the right call, or not relevant, and new Vayne players won't do it deliberately. It does add an extra option to the skill, making it a bit richer though, without making the skill's core concept or tooltip more difficult to understand. Similarly Ezreal's Essence Flux being able to hit himself's often irrelevant or a poor idea to utilize. Occasionally though it's worth playing into and, pardon the now horribly cliched phrase, is one of the sort of things that separates good players from great.
Tin Tarantino3 votesWhat about the possibility of adding a mark from W that Ahri could proc using Q to get a slow? since it would fit the with the idea of making her a kite mage.
Edit: someone suggested a speed boost on W, that would actually be much better.
midorii4 votesHey Meddler ^^ I was thinking a really neat functionality of her W would be an 'on death' effect. Something along the lines of:
Whenever an enemy champion is killed with a Fox Fire, three more Fox Fires are spawned from their corpse to hit additional targets dealing ~%30 of the original spell's damage.
This would even further strengthen her role in teamfights and her cohesion with Rylai's as each kill could potentially slow other enemy champs trying to escape the fight. Would be a really cool way to bring her back into kiting, yet with an assassin-esque feel as she needs to secure a kill to get more.
It also feels like it would fit her lore (not that it really matters i suppose); as if each kill she steals some of the champ's essence and uses it against their team.
Gives the player the choice to try and secure the kill with a fox fire which could be interesting.
Putting something there basically to enable a person that's played 200 games on Ahri to pull off the occasional cool play with Foxfire that a player with only 20 games might not be aware of or able to execute at the right time.
Try over 350 ranked games on Ahri ;)
5G8Nri0B549 votesThere's an obvious downside to overly simplistic champions and abilities though. When they become good, they can be downright unmanageable.
While simplistic abilities can have a place, such as say...Mordekaiser's E being one of the most bland abilities in the game, it's offset by the fact that it costs his health to cast like all his abilities AND it fuels his Passive as well, both of which makes up for how empty the ability is.
In the end, no matter what, having decision making and some actual gameplay in them is a good thing in general. An ability should always be interesting, if it's not, then it should somehow make the rest of the champion's kit interesting. This is where Ahri's W falls apart. It's just there. It fullfulls it's role of filling up a hole and contributing to her damage like any damage abilities.
You press W because why not. It's worse than Ryze's point and click abilities.
Pokeprof5 votesThere's a HUGE difference, though, between an overly simplistic champion (Ryze) and a champion who simply has a mechanic that's fairly boring (Ahri). Our foxy lady already has to juggle her passive to get her Spell vamp proc, hitting at the end of her orb to get the most damage, her charm acting as a mini-dfg so her having to save all of her big damage for that moment she get's a charm off and isn't knee deep in enemies, all ontop of being a champion who's kill power works best when she's in your face. Do we really need to add another level of complexity on a champion who, in all rights,has a fairly high skill cap already?
If this was Ryze, then yes, there's huge room for improvement/change, because as we've seen in worlds, when Ryze is strong, he's dominating. But this isn't Ryze. This is a champion who's not a pick up and play champion and is one you've got to learn all the little nuances in her kit to really bring out her strength. And that's one of my issues lately with a lot of league champs that there are a LOT of complicated mechanics, skills, and high capabilities of play. But veriety is the spice of life and for every Azir, Rek'sai and Gnar, we need our Annies and Garens.
Also, while Garen is a simplistic one note champion, he's at least PLAYABLE. The reason he's not 'viable' as you put it is because the Metagame competitively doesn't look towards tanky guys with no hard cc and some decent damage. They're looking at mostly mobility and assassin potential, because that's what's strongest right now. Mordekaiser doesn't even HAVE the ability to be playable. His Early game is such an uphill climb thanks to his ability cost, his lack of mobility, and the fact that his one defining feature outside of his ulti (being incredibly durable thanks to his shield) was not only nerfed hard in a far different era of League but was also indirectly nerfed thanks to the season changes to Armor/MR that made Assassins the power house they are today. The only time you see him at his old power level is when he's so stupidly fed. But all you've got to do is pick Lee Sin, a champion with such an overbearing early game he shuts out everyone else, and boom, Mordekasier will never see the light of day again.
midorii4 votesIs there no way you can give her a minor buff without changing the functionality of charm? I feel it brings her kit together and makes it feel more cohesive. You should feel rewarded for landing it.
I know one of the major nerfs she had last year was the damage on her W. A lot of the reasons being thrown around last year was that dfg wasn't the problem and that she can still rely on it to do comparable damage (thus embracing a bursty assassin meta). Now that her key item is being removed, could her W be brought back not to lvls where it was before, but somewhere in between so that it still works well with a damage amping charm kit, yet in an environment without dfg?
disregardable5 votesI'm a little confused at why you want to make her less of an assassin. She's one of the very few assassins with clear, defined counterplay. You can actually outplay Assassin Ahri, unlike several other meta assassins 
. She's fun to play as and fun to play against. What brought about this change?
Also, what's the point of having her charm if there isn't any damage amplification on it? Her Q/W aren't hard to hit. She can get them on more easily without putting herself at risk to land the charm.
Vistha Kai2 votesWith all due respect, Meddler, but all I can see in this post is "we are considering reverting changes made to Ahri in patch 3.13 and giving her weird ass passive on her Q, because she clearly can't use Spirit Rush to reposition".
You are just making things more complicated than should be. You are awarded by landing Charm in the form of increased damage and not smashing your face into keyboard to kill somebody. The only reason I don't play Ahri, is I have those 5 mid laners that I like more (3 of them aren't even meta) and, when on rare occasions I played her, I never needed DFG to 100-0 people.
Compensations are bad. Just like somebody said: LB is fine without DFG. Why would Ahri be bad without it?
The only champion who really needs DFG is Veigar because he's all about that one spell rotation.
Naphal2 votesdont change too much please, the current charm is awesome and with DFG gone really unique as well, her Q is strong enough so no overreliance on E exists, and the "free no aim" damage on W and R was nerfed for a reason.
maybe just lower her cds a bit, or work on the new 120 AP item before you decide what ahri needs...
again buff mage or assassin ahri as you see fit, but dont crush either.
Linna Excel2 votesAny chance of you improving her sustain instead of more numbers for mage ahri? IE her passive heals her every cast and every 9th returns some mana (1%missing mana per champion hit)? I know you guys aren't so tied to lore anymore but upper her sustain would make her more of a hunter.
Of course I have to ask, is she going to be aimed at being burst, being sustained poke, or being something in between after the compensation?
PrinceArchie2 votesWith the talks of these changes to Ahri Riot Meddler there is one thing that greatly concerns me. Toning down the damage amp on her charm takes away from Ahri's power in lane and as a duelist overall at any point in the game. Yes being more of a Kite mage can be a good thing for Ahri making her better situated in poke comps in team fights a more mobile xerath if you will. However a mere movement speed buff isn't enough because that power has simply been taken away and not properly distributed. A big part of that I believe has to do with the nature of her W and perhaps even the power of her R. If you want her Kiting to be more powerful why not significantly increase the power of those?
With Q being in the air and Ahri being given a movement speed buff she could theoretically reposition, W, R and or both and use that as a means of effective damage. You'd also have to adjust the nature of W's target at farther distances, allowing players to either chose to use it as a multi-target spell or a single target spell whether or not they specifically click a specific champion when the skill is used for all three fox fires to hit one enemy. That is in my opinion the only way to effectively shift her power without taking a crucial amount of it away and leaving Ahri players to simply have better mechanics or lane matchups to make up for the loss of not one but TWO damage sources.
Lanofrose2 votesThe current changes on the PBE are disappointing to say the least........ the removal of her charm's purpose (Kiss of Death) (also I love this term) is not the direction I believe most Ahri's would like to see her go. when seeing the item Ahri was previously most balance and nerfed around Go for the health of game its was commonplace to think that some help or "compensation" would be in place to aid her in getting over the hump of not having DFG anymore, but instead it like your taking this time to Rework her give her a Game-play which would just put her back to her problematic season 3 mechanics were it was unclear how to outplay or keep safe against her damage, making for unhappy opponents feeling cheated and a less satisfying and fun Ahri. (no more feeling of out maneuvering someone and landing charm)
I Made a list of a number off potential buffs that would help her tremendously within her current play style (charm with 20% damage amp)
Passive: 1: passive will now only procs when HP Isn't full (this may be a little to good but worth mentioning for QoL sake)
Q: 1: Base Damage increased from [40/65/90/115/140] To [45/70/95/120/145] 2: CoolDown Goes from flat 7 to 7/6.75/6.5/6.25/6 also the PBE buff, Q now gives a boost of speed when in air (can this be toned down from the PBE version so that it doesn't give MS if moving towards the orb only sideways and backwards this change should only be for a poking/kiting Ahri)
W: 1: Base Damage increased from [40/65/90/115/140] To [45/70/95/120/145] ( small buff to help with her with her damage but not give to much free damage)
E: 1: Charm now applies its 20% damage buff to itself (This is the Main buff, charm stats would now technically be 72/108/144/180/216 with 42% ratio AKA less ratio then PBE but slightly more base damage throughout game to make up for it)
Ult: 1: When Ult is ranked it gives 5% CDR (going utility over raw damage here to keep her in check but also help her get over the missing cdr from DFG hump, so she will still need to build some cdr but not be so hard up on builds if she wanted to for-go it entirely for a high damage build,this goes with the comment of giving her more use of her ult without any significant changes to her ult system) As well as this can be completely ignored if there is plans for another big ticket CDR item in the future.
Mostly not a fan of changing her ratios as they are fairly well balanced around charm already but slight base damage increases with charms 20% and charms new application on itself would really keep Ahri in a healthy spot.
Pyrokineticmage5 votesI see this happening.
They remove DFG with the release of Challenger Ahri skin and no buff compensation.
xu1D7eJdSi4 votesWhat I think would be interesting is if they played up her identity as a mobile mage. Not entirely sure how they'd do that, but I always have the most fun as Ahri when ulting. Maybe I'm in the minority opinion here but playing up her ability to deal damage on the go would be cool.
disregardable1 votesI agree, the ult is fun. It's just when you say "mobile mage", the first thing that comes to mind is 
...
xu1D7eJdSi1 votesMm that's true we don't want a second lissandra. Though Liss is more of an initiator/anti-assassin, and Ahri's mobility (since she's now less about bursting) would be more about dashing around the fight? I'm not quite sure how it'd work tbh.
Here's a crazy idea actually. If her ult became on a charge base so she'd start lvl 6 with 3 charges and have a max of 3, and would "regain" a charge for one third of her current ult cd. Meanwhile she'd have a passive on her ult of separate bonus charges that would last for x seconds which she'd be able to accrue whenever she used her passive on a champion or something (stealing their spirit to rush with :p).
Idk how that'd work from a balance perspective, but it'd certainly be interesting gameplay-wise. Do you build her with mana/mana regen so she can gain lots of bonus charges? Or do you build AP to make her dashes mean more damage more? Would be interesting at the very least.
Granted giving Ahri flashes that are charged kinda periodically... ehh.
Aèrith1 votesMm that's true we don't want a second lissandra. Though Liss is more of an initiator/anti-assassin, and Ahri's mobility (since she's now less about bursting) would be more about dashing around the fight? I'm not quite sure how it'd work tbh.
Here's a crazy idea actually. If her ult became on a charge base so she'd start lvl 6 with 3 charges and have a max of 3, and would "regain" a charge for one third of her current ult cd. Meanwhile she'd have a passive on her ult of separate bonus charges that would last for x seconds which she'd be able to accrue whenever she used her passive on a champion or something (stealing their spirit to rush with :p).
Idk how that'd work from a balance perspective, but it'd certainly be interesting gameplay-wise. Do you build her with mana/mana regen so she can gain lots of bonus charges? Or do you build AP to make her dashes mean more damage more? Would be interesting at the very least.
Granted giving Ahri flashes that are charged kinda periodically... ehh.
People came up with the charge thing for the ult a couple of years ago, kind of like how Akali is now. Although I think this suggestion is fun, I'm not sure if that would be too much mobility. The way that's it balanced now is that she has to burn all of her mobility at once which I kind of like. I don't want her to end up like pre-nerf kassadin. That was awful.
xu1D7eJdSi2 votesMm no I agree. Having her mobility within a time frame is healthy. Though what separates her from kass is the lack of mana scaling which is a silly concept to have in the game, but I digress. Maybe her current ult with the bonus charge thing? It'd still be burned basically all at the same time, and they'd fall off. I do agree though that mobility is something that needs to be doled out carefully.
RiotMeddler16 votesWe did actually test Ahri during her initial development with an ammo system on her ult, with separate use/recharge, rather than the current 3 casts in X seconds approach. Conclusion we came to's the same point you've made - high mobility, within a limited period of time, results in both healthier and more interesting gameplay. Ammo system Ahri always had a dash charge up to escape with, so was much harder for opponents to deal with and was disincentivized from trying to make cool multi dash plays.
xu1D7eJdSi1 votesMeddler do you think something like simply lowering the brief cd between her dashes would be a healthy way to give a little boost to her mobility? The cd between them could even lower as it's ranked up like Yasuo's E.
RiotMeddler7 votesI'd be more inclined to find ways to give her other mobility or access her ult a bit more often. Having those gaps results in a longer combat pattern, with more kiting and thought for both sides about where she'll go and when. Reducing them incentivizes her to spam them to move quickly in a direction or get damage out as fast as possible.
Elphrihaim2 votesinclude things like removing the damage amp on charm,
I think this is a bad idea. Not because removing the damage amplification is bad, but because the fact it exists forces Ahri to make a decision. When she lands a Charm, will she follow it up with Orb of Deception for additional damage, to optimize the effect of Charm-- or will she just run, maximizing her distance?
I think that the choice made is better than the unclear optimzation made. It's a choice between distance and damage-- not damage and damage.
giving her a speed boost while her Q's in the air to allow more reposition plays and kiting while casting.
Why not
1: Give her innate Furor on Fox-Fire / Foku-Fu as a passive? e.g. "Ahri gains 6-10% Movement Speed that decays over 2.5 seconds whenever she damages an enemy with a single target effect (Her basic attacks, Fox-Fire, and Charm)." 2: Remove the penalty on Spirit Rush for spacing out the casts. Currently, the cooldown doesn't begin until you use the last charge, which means that Ahri is indirectly rewarded for unloading all of them quickly. Increasing the base cooldown by 10 seconds, then having the cooldown start when it is first cast, increases the know-ability of the cooldown. Plus, I'm pretty sure that most recast abilities go on CD when they're first activated-- though I could be completely wrong. :V
Ammo system Ahri always had a dash charge up to escape with, so was much harder for opponents to deal with and was disincentivized from trying to make cool multi dash plays.
I'd be more inclined to find ways to give her other mobility or access her ult a bit more often. Having those gaps results in a longer combat pattern, with more kiting and thought for both sides about where she'll go and when. Reducing them incentivizes her to spam them to move quickly in a direction or get damage out as fast as possible.
Because of these, why not increase the duration of the recast availability? Then Ahri is able to use one to go out, but perhaps later decide she wants to go back in-- and then rush out again. It seems like an easy solution to bolstering her kiting patterns without affecting her assassin traits. [Also see the common idea which is basically "Furor enchant naturally on Fox-Fire" above]
I'm with you there, both on the value of non champion defining skills sometimes being fairly simple (e.g. Rek'Sai's burrowed Q) and that Ahri's W's an example of such a skill.
[I am responding to this whole post, I just thought I would clip the length.]
In my opinion, there aren't really cool plays to pull of with Fox-Fire past being intimately familiar with how it chooses targets and how much damage it does (getting kills on enemies that are running away is awesome :p). Which I suppose are nuances that do make it have cool traits, but all of those traits could be done similarly by making the AI for it much more intelligent instead of by being a better gamer-- which sometimes makes me feel like I'm fighting the UI and not my opponents.
...The number of times I've had Fox-Fires not target the correct minions and enemies to kill them is frustratingly high, so I'm likely biased in that regard.
Saulito Senpai5 votesWe did actually test Ahri during her initial development with an ammo system on her ult, with separate use/recharge, rather than the current 3 casts in X seconds approach. Conclusion we came to's the same point you've made - high mobility, within a limited period of time, results in both healthier and more interesting gameplay. Ammo system Ahri always had a dash charge up to escape with, so was much harder for opponents to deal with and was disincentivized from trying to make cool multi dash plays.
And why haven't you done this with Akali?
Vistha Kai3 votesExact same thing that came to my mind while reading that response.
Riot, why do you have double standards?
Aèrith2 votesI guess if Akali was released today, they wouldn't do the ammo based system for her. Akali came out waaaaaay before Ahri did, and usually the early champs had some crazy balance issues. But I still don't understand how Akali has gone this long without any changes to shadow dance.
Revass1n4 votesPersonally I feel that Ahri is unfit to be a kiting mage as she is currently. She is already a balanced assassin with DFG. Because she cant dive hard like zed(shadow which he can return too) or talon (invisibility) without instantly getting focused. You have to be very careful when to use your ult and DFG (+ the target you wanne use it on) and to go in for the kill. Even with DFG I still lose out to a enemy ADC if I miss my e (for example a draven, corki or a late game tristana and jinx). If you want Ahri to be a kiting mage then she needs to have more mobility and cc also because Ahri shines mostly mid game (without DFG I definitely think she gonna need a buff in damage if she still gonna be played as a assassin). Well that's my opinion on one of my favorite mid champions at least.
ToshiZZen3 votesPersonally I feel that Ahri is unfit to be a kiting mage and she is currently perfectly balanced as a assassin with DFG. Because she cant dive hard like zed(shadow which he can return too) or talon (invisibility) without instantly getting focused. You have to be very careful when to use your ult and DFG (+ the target you wanne use it on) and to go in for the kill. Even with DFG I still lose out to a enemy ADC if I miss my e (for example a draven, corki or a late game tristana and jinx). If you want Ahri to be a kiting mage then she needs to have more mobility and cc also her cooldown on her Q needs to be reduced because Ahri shines mostly mid game (without DFG I definitely think she gonna need a buff in damage) but the cooldown on her Q is pretty long between bursts. Well thats my opinion on one of my favorite mid champions at least.
Completely my opinion.I tried both the mage and the assassin style on ahri and it kinda ended up in playing assissin-like both ways^^.So IMO it would be a shame to reverse a very established assassin into a "kiting mage", i just dont feel the xerath gameplay on ahri at all.
She is very fun atm and relies on dfg for the epic burstpotential she has,a rework of her kit is not nessessary rightnow. Allthough she needs the bonus dmg from dfg somehow in her kit (+ the nice 10 % cdr i will miss)
But i think it is very one-way thinking by my side, i just like her kit vm and (almost) only play bursty assassins, so I´m still open for good(!!!!!!!!!) reworks on her
Revass1n3 votesGlad too see I am not the only one with that opinion. I just feel if they just up the damage on Ahri's early-mid to mid game to allow for similar damage burst as DFG in 5.2 then Ahri is just fine (as a AP assassin) because she requires skill to play. But I am pretty sure if they are gonna rework her into a kiting mage I am gonna drop Ahri as one of my main mid because it would be hard to carry with a kiting mage (I currently carried myself from bronze 3 to silver 2 promo's with Ahri, Zed and Brand (used in Bronze only) http://euw.op.gg/summoner/champions/userName=revasin . I mostly have good team-fights because i have a decent burst and can pick off enemies which is what makes Ahri such a good mid laner and mid-game champion.
Aèrith2 votesIn my opinion Ahri was fine as a kiting mage before all the changes. Now of course she had higher ratios before and no damage amplification, so all you had to do was prioritize cool down reduction. My question is does she really need more mobility. Mobility has gotten pretty crazy within the past couple of years.
Riftic4 votesI doubt I'm the only one in this camp, but I happen to love Ahri's assassin playstyle. If that playstyle gets nerfed or even removed, I'm going to be pretty upset. She's been an assassin for ages, and then when you guys (Riot) nerfed her, you solidified that role with the charm damage amp.
I'd much rather see a higher amp on her charm or more damage put into her other abilities (W and R come to mind, they've been nerfed so much), than extra movement speed after hitting with W or casting a Q. Making her move faster doesn't even come close to making up for the significant 15% max hp damage and 20% multiplicative damage amp that she's going to be losing.
I think I'm justified in saying that I'm pretty worried that you guys are about to gut my favorite champion.
Edit: Or alternatively, put the DFG change off until you know what you're doing. You're talking about tentative changes, which implies to me that you guys don't know what to do yet. Doing this right the first time is much better than making a crippled champion and then leaving her for a long time without changes.
Pika3103 votesDoing this right the first time is much better than making a crippled champion and then leaving her for a long time without changes.
#BetterNerfSona
dnlosx3 votesAhri doesn't need mana-regeneration items like Morellonomicon or Athene's Unholy Grail, but she needs the 10% CDR of DFG because Orb of Deception and Charm not reduce cooldown by level up, and right now Ahri is very dependent of these abilities.
Abyssphere3 votesI'm not sure what should happen to replace DFG but PLEASE don't remove the damage amp on charm. I really like Ahri and that is my favourite thing about her - obviously the CC on Charm is already quite good but the damage amp is what makes landing it feel really rewarding and it fits her theme perfectly for her prey to be more vulnerable after she charms them.
All I would say for compensation is to reduce her cooldowns slightly, or replace DFG with another 120 AP item that grants CDR, because her cooldowns don't really scale well with level (particularly Charm which could do with being 12/11.5/11/10.5/10 or something).
Naphal3 votes"mobile mage" or "kiting mage" is not a very good idea tbh... sure if you are cassiopeia with rylais and the highest singletarget magic dps ingame then kite away, BUT LoL is all about giant cctanks, 100-0 assassins or mass dpscarries, complimented by heal/shield/mobility/cc support, what place has ahri when her full damage is only realized with W and R in closerange, otherwise she just flings Q (which is bad closerange, speedbuff or no, orb needs to travel too long, bestcase Q is hitting at the end of the range) and saves E for when she needs cc...
what use is there to poke and run with Q as Ahri? so Leblanc is allowed to stay assassin, Azir and Orianna outclass Ahri midrange without her killpressure, and if you want to play the pokegame... hell why bother to Q and run, just play Xerath / Ziggs / Lux and you dont even have to get close.
So Ahri gets to live longer in teamfights and poke more? what good does it if she needs double the time to do the same damage as the contested picks? "guys guys i am still doing damage! guys?" -everybody else already got AoE comboed, or assassinated or just cced and killed off by the adc.
the only good thing about the new ahri would be that she is safe... very safe... but not threatening, this patching and reworking has dilluted her identity to a tease mage lol... and no matter how appealing a characters appearance may be, if she does not compete, she wont be played (elise says hi)...
TLDR: the concept of a "mobile and safe mage" with the weakness "low threat" is bad, very bad.
guess i will play Ahri - the tease mage, only when i want to pamper my kda or rather death assist ratio (because no kills) while blaming my team that they die too fast for me to do anything meaningful besides running from a fight fast. (in contrast ashe and sivir as lower dps carries are useful to their team... ahri only has charm, and we know how awesome elise is with just her cocoon)
BakugoBestBoy2 votesI checked my match history and looked at my last 30 Ahri games and I only built DFG in 3 of them... she doesn't really need any compensation for the removal of an item that made people play her like a toxic champion (ie LeBonk). Morello's/Void/Sorcs/Rylai's/Deathcap and she's still pretty damn strong. Toss in a Zhonya's or a Liandry's and away you go.
Pika3103 votesOn the other hand, DFG made Ahri one of only 2 assassins that can 100-0 a fed pure tank. On multiple occasions, at Shyvana's high point I could catch her out and blow her up in Dragon Form with 3 MR items (Banshee, Visage, Mercs) at the cost of my full combo.
The other assassin is Zed, who's being left untouched because he's on Riot's list of favored champions:
stealthfox941 votesHe's getting nerfed soon.
Pika3103 votesWe can only hope. Riot promises many things and follows-up on almost none. Even worse, more often than not they hand us things completely contrarily to said promise.
Example: 
Riot: "We're going to keep her identity, listen to player feedback and monitor her status afterwards."
Reality:
Aèrith2 votesJust saw the PBE changes and I don't know. I was a little confused with what they did. The movement speed buff with Q was already presented by Meddler so that wasn't a surprise. What I was surprised about was when they upped the ratio and damage of charm. I thought they would give some of her damage they took away from charm and spirit rush. They took a lot of damage away from those skills to support the DFG/charm thing. This most likely won't be the last change they put into the PBE so I guess we'll have to keep watching and see what happens next.
Pika3104 votesso I guess we'll have to keep watching and see what happens next.
... said every Sona player for the past 6 months.
foxmarco1 voteswill there come a new item with with AP and CoolDown? because there are only the 
, 
. those two are only with mana regen.
or just make a item with the smase stats as the DFG: 120 AP - 10% CD. and than no active
Pika3103 votesMaybe something that builds out of 
and 
would be a great addition to the game. Of course Riot loves their Zed WAY too much, I doubt they'd go for it.