A Solution to Sightstone Variants, lack of Summoner Spells, and improved Support Itemization

MrBuffington··9 votes·871 views

This thread comes to you in five parts (tl;dr at bottom):

  1. Background
  2. The Idea (broadly)
  3. Considerations
  4. Concrete Suggestions (will edit in yours)
  5. tl;dr

#Background

So there's been a lot of talk lately about increasing options for Sightstone; personally I think there's a larger egg to crack in terms of how players interact with vision as a whole. One common thread I see in these threads (heh, unintentional I swear) is general frustration with the lack of slot-efficiency in SS. There have been suggestions for moving SS to the trinket slot, or creating an entirely new slot for SS/wards, or incorporating SS into support itemization. I think one option that hasn't been explored as much, and is sort of a two-birds-one-stone situation, is creating more useful opportunities for items to interact with summoner spells, specifically for vision.

Riot has been clearing up some summoner spells lately (rip revive. oh the irony), and CV remains one that is hardly ever taken. It is my understanding that Riot intentionally keeps it underpowered because having strong access to vision in the early game is pretty powerful. On the other hand, I think it's existence is a sign that Riot isn't averse to having vision and summoner spells interact. Furthermore, I think Riot is looking to increase options in terms of summoner spells outside of the select few that are taken nearly every game.

Switching gears, though the smite changes and itemization have done some good things, and some things that still have room to develop (cough poachers cough), but overall I think it opens some really interesting doors to how itemization and summoner spells can interact. Having more powerful versions of Smite tied to itemization allows the spell to become more powerful as the game progresses (and not just in a per-lvl-scaling sort of way a lot of summoners have). Theoretically, it's okay for Chilling Smite to deal damage to champions and slow because the jungler doesn't have access to that during lvl 1 cheese invades and such.


#The Idea

By now you probably can tell where I'm going with this (perhaps you already knew from the title). Basically I think there's potential for a vision-related summoner spell to be tied to itemization (most likely support itemization) in order to allow the spell to become more powerful (and customizable) as the game progresses.

In my mind this is a change directed at supports, since:

  1. They're generally a major factor in vision control of the game
  2. They have a class of items directed specifically at them, similar to junglers
  3. They have a bit more freedom in their summoner spell choice (Junglers need smite, Top/Mid/ADC generally want a spell that offers some other combat effectiveness or non-vision utility, be it TP, Ignite, Heal, Barrier, Ghost, etc.)
  4. This could reduce a support’s reliance on SS, where the role is already starved on gold, allowing the support to buy additional utility for their team.

So I'll pretty much be talking about this in terms of supports, though it could be interesting (if non-abusive) to see this taken in other roles (I imagine, though, if it's tied to support itemization, itemization itself would need to change a bit or the spell would be really powerful in order to justify both the gold cost of items and the loss of a summoner spell). In terms of how it interacts with support itemization, there is conveniently already a three-tier system in support itemization, much like the system for jungler itemization, so there could be various flavors of enchantments at the tiers of support items to customize the way their summoner spell functions, and I think there is CLG levels of potential to develop this into something really cool (dreaming big here, it could be a focus of a preseason change, like this season’s jungle)

This change is two fold (obviously); the summoner spell and the various enchantments, so I am framing the following sections with this in mind


#Considerations

Summoner Spell:

  • The summoner spell needs to have some lvl 1 effectiveness, since supports are giving up (typically) Exhaust or Ignite for this (Exhaust being a very important spell for a team, especially if no other role is taking it).
  • I think there is a legitimate question as to whether the spell should be forced on support players, though; Junglers basically had no choice in taking smite, and the changes were a buff to that, where Supports have more flexibility they would be giving up. An option is to make a designated “Support Ignite” or “Support Exhaust”, but I think you also have to sacrifice the targeted reliability of these summoner spells if this is also meant to provide some vision utility.
  • Speaking of targeted reliability, summoner spells are meant to be reliable, which is an important consideration in designing a spell
  • I also feel like it’s pretty uninteresting to have the spell as a glorified ward-dropper, so I think it’s important that the spell serves some other function as well, or handles vision in an interesting way. I think there’s also potential to add interesting utility to wards, though

Enchantments

  • Since the change to the summoner spell is built into existing itemization, and the change could reduce a support’s reliance on SS, so the support effectively gains 800g that they no longer need to spend on SS, depending on how the summoner spell functions and if it can effectively serve as a replacement for SS.

#Concrete Suggestions

There are three four basic flavors of summoner spells I can think of (or two three with a variation on one), I will list ideas for their respective enchantments beneath them.

#1. Glorified Ward Dropper: Basically a rechargeable ward, maybe holds charges as well; pretty uninteresting, but the enchantments could be cool. This also probably has the most potential as a SS replacement. I’m not quite sure how to make the base summoner spell more interesting/useful, but some of the suggestions for enchantments could work their way back into the base spell:

  • Enchantments:
  • CC/Debuff wards: wards have an AoE effect that can CC/debuff nearby targets, most likely slows or something soft. This gives some combat effectiveness to the summoner spell
  • Damage wards: similar to above, have some AoE damage effect, like sunfire burn or explosion upon destruction (or some other method of triggering, maybe the support clicking on the ward).
  • Increase maximum ward count/ward duration/charge count/drop range/vision range/health on wards/cooldown reduction on the spell: these could be tier 2 enchantments, since they’re pretty basic. Nothing more to say, really
  • From Bharhash: Pinging when spotting an enemy, increases on passive gold based on active wards and/or placement of wards (deep wards are worth more)
  • Wards give true sight for a few seconds, allowing them to function as a sweeper

#2, Pets! I think this is the more interesting idea, and could satisfy a few lingering desires among the community/Riot. I have two versions of this idea; one which probably better serves as a SS replacement, and the other (I will list it as #3 just for clarity) I think is just cooler. The first idea is to have a pet that you send out to a target area, like Poro toss or Elise’s Volatile Spiderling or Maokai’s sapling toss, to provide vision, basically functioning like a ward. Basically this is bridging the gap between the ward dropper and the next idea

  • Enchantments:
  • Probably the same enchantments for the ward dropper apply to this, though because the spell isn’t just a ward drop, there could be some single-target interactions, as far as CC/debuff/damage, like Poro toss had in the Poro King gamemode.

#3 Pets pt 2: This is by far my favorite idea; to have a permanent pet (similar to Tibbers, but, you know, permanent) you can control using the summoner spell key. Of course there would be a range limit (“leash”) and the pet would return to you if you leave that range (don’t abandon your pet). Enchantments could be “Tricks” that your pet learns. Perhaps most importantly, this opens up the opportunity to buy skins/chromas for your pet (Rito. Money. Take. Plz). Pets/skins could be things like Poros, Scuttlecrab, Saplings, Spiderlings, Voidlings, things native to the respective regions of the support items (ie. Poros for Frost Queen) or common pets like dogs/cats/birds, etc. I think the pets should be untargetable, for the reliability of it being a summoner spell, or if the pet takes enough damage, it returns to the owner for a cooldown.

  • Enchantments:
  • Of course, some of the aforementioned enchantments can apply
  • In order to make this more of a SS replacement, the spell could store charges of wards and the pet can drop them when a charge is available. You would control the pet normally when you don’t have a ward charge, but when you have one, the pet will also place a ward at target location. This is probably a Tier 2 enchantment
  • I think it’s easier to add CC/damage effects to this iteration, since the pet can target specific champions. The pet could have a basic attack to give it lvl 1 effectiveness.
  • If the pet is targetable, you can also increase their health/stats through enchantments
  • The pet could offer aura buffs/debuffs to your team/enemy

#4 Vision denial: I think this is something that isn't explored as often, but can be very interesting in terms of gameplay. I'm not just talking about a sweeper either; this could include effects like Grave's smokescreen or Nocturne's Paranoia. Obviously this would have a long cooldown, but it could fill a similar role to other summoner spells in that it gives you an edge in a fight. Additionally, having a vision denial spell could fill the role of a sweeper, which allows a support to get yellow trinket as a replacement for sightstone. As far as a concrete iteration, have a spell that functions like the first half of Nocturne's Paranoia and deny's the enemy team's vision for a few seconds; this spell would also give the support oracle's in the duration, so they can use it similar to a sweeper.

  • Enchantments
  • One possible Enchantment I think would be interesting is to give other methods of sweeping wards, like being able to deal more damage to wards or even just auto-break them when you're in a given radius of them during the spell's active (this might be OP).
  • One difficulty in this is that you don't get upgraded yellow trinket until lvl 9; a solution is to have an enchantment circumvent this requirement, so that when you get your T2 support item, you have access to upgraded yellow trinket (or perhaps an improved version, with an extra charge, for example)

#tl;dr

Create a new summoner spell (targeted at supports) that interacts with support itemization (like smite interacts with jungler itemization) that focuses on vision, reducing a support’s reliance on sightstone/sweeper (and granting access to upgraded trinkets earlier to bridge the gap) while also increasing the ways a support can support their team.

Tune into the “Concrete Suggestions” section for, well, concrete suggestions on how this could be implemented: #1 for the more practical/bland, #3 for the more interesting one imo (Pets!), #2 for something in between the other two (unintentional I swear), #4 for a suggestion for vision denial, which takes the place of sweeper instead and gives supports access to upgraded yellow trinkets.


Let me know what you think, comment with other suggestions as well, and thanks for reading!

18 Comments

FantasySniper2 votes

I really enjoyed these ideas, and you have organized them down to a point.

Please finish your thought on Enchantments in the Considerations section. Something you missed is that it's really important for Sightstone to retain its cost (and slot). This not only makes the spell unattractive for those who aren't supports, but also allows for the progression of the spell to be more balanced.

Making a Smite-esque summoner spell that's attached to Sightstone is a wonderful idea! I especially love your Pet idea, it would bring amazing variety to the support role. This could replace Clairvoyance - and maybe even Exhaust if done properly.

It needs a Lv1 utility before Sightstone is acquired, and that might be the hardest thing to control. I'll try to come up with suggestions.

MrBuffington1 votes

Thanks! And thanks for the catch; I was writing this kind of late last night, haha

Yea, this isn't meant to outright delete Sightstone; I imagine the item will stay since many junglers rely on the item as well, and supports still might favor it even with a summoner spell, depending on what it does (my suggestions focus on providing vision, but it's possible to have some vision denial summoner spells, I think that would be pretty cool, to use in conjunction with a sightstone or upgraded yellow trinket since the spell would effectively take the place of sweeper).

My idea was actually to attach the summoner spell to support items, not sightstone (sorry if that was unclear), though that's another direction to take. I feel like sightstone is too accessible to other roles (as mentioned before, many junglers take it), where tying the spell to support itemization will make the spell less appealing to other roles (unless, of course, a situation like Skirmisher's smite in top lane arises. This is just a balance issue though). I think this is also fairly unappealing in general to other roles, though, since Jungle is the only role that tends to focus more on vision, and they already require smite as a spell, and I don't see many junglers dropping flash and needing to sink gold in support items in order to get this spell.

EDIT: I also really like the pet idea :3

FantasySniper1 votes

A dual-purpose vision and utility spell is quite powerful, and since excluding it from non-supports is a main goal, to keep it out of their hands and still make it useful to the designated role, you need limiting factors that could very well prevent it from being useful in the first place to even the target audience. Having it be restricted to support items alone is quite alright and suits this purpose, but making it so that Sightstone is essentially replaced is not. Supports are balanced around having to spend what little gold they earn on efficient utility items like Sightstone. Giving them 800g and a whole 'nother slot is unhealthy.

If a jungler gives up Flash to have a spell that's poorly tuned for their role, could not even assist in their mobility, and requires them having to invest into an item of debatable worth on such a role: I don't see it becoming too much of a problem so long as it's balanced properly in the first place. The main reason smite became a top-lane thing is because Cinderhulk's bonus HP is just too good to pass up on tanks.

The pet could maybe act not only as an entity similar to the wolf spirit, but also behave like Pix. Allowing multiple uses based on enemy/ally targeting could be going too far though, and it might only be capable of latching onto one or the other for the designated purpose.

MrBuffington1 votes

At the same time, supports would also be losing either exhaust or ignite by taking this spell; supports generally don't scale well with items either (that's why they don't get CS, just whatever their gold generation item gives them), nor is it common for a support to reach full build in the course of a game, so I don't think the extra gold or slot is especially harmful (and, most likely, the cost of T2/T3 support items would increase if the spell makes them less reliant on sightstone, a pretty easy balance change).

Again, this thread's main goal is to propose an area of the game (vision related summoner spells, and how it might help supports) that can be used for change, not to force any particular suggestion on the game (I just list suggestions as examples of how this could take shape). Balance is a tricky topic and one that I don't claim to be an expert in by any means, which is why I'm not really attaching numbers to any of my suggestions, and also why I'm giving a wide variety of suggestions, since I don't know if or how something like this would be implemented if it is seen as beneficial to the game.

FantasySniper1 votes

That one slot that costs 800g is often what keeps supports from becoming late-game powerhouses like those of carries. Sightstone is also a major mechanic for vision and for another to be capable of replacing it, it has to be equally powerful - something that could not possibly be balanced as a summoner spell in the current setting. Concepts are always better to start from, and there are always multiple ways to balance them later on. The trick is foreseeing how dramatic the effect of a change will be, good or bad. Numbers are always difficult to find an approach to, and they are almost always tweaked anyways, so no harm.

MrBuffington1 votes

It's also the fact that most supports have pretty bad scalings. Only mage champions played in the support role (ie. Annie, Zyra, Vel'Koz) really become late game powerhouses in terms of damage; plus the low gold gain means that they won't be hitting this point until very, very late game anyways.

Bharhash2 votes

Concept is sound. Not sure if the enchantments work so well though.

Couple ideas I just threw around in my head;

Increase ward placement range Increase ward's vision range Increase passive gold income based on active wards Ping when spotting an enemy

As an alternate to idea #3 up there, I figure that if Riot can track what is "your" jungle and what is the "enemy" jungle, then I figure they can probably track what is "your" side of the map and what is the "enemy's" side of the map, so you can get more gold the more aggressive or deep wards you put in.

MrBuffington1 votes

Yea, a lot of this is me just brainstorming, so the formatting isn't perfect. It's by no means a finished idea, more of exploring a concept of having role-specific summoner spells (like Smite for junglers), and having itemization tied to it, since I really like how Smite has delayed powerspikes (not just per lvl scaling like a few summoner spells) based on what items you're buying; I think it could have some great impact on how support is played and enable some lesser seen playstyles (like roaming support, etc) depending on how the enchantments play out.

Mazianos1 votes

Losing exhaust lowes effectiveness of trading so much though, it's a pretty important spell.

MrBuffington1 votes

I agree it's an important spell, I acknowledge that in the post. I don't think it's an irreplaceable spell, however; I might be in the minority but as a support player I feel like I'm taking Exhaust mostly because of a lack of other appealing summoner spells, not that Exhaust is vital to my role. Many supports freely exchange Exhaust and Ignite, some of it depends on lane dynamics and such, but I think that itself shows that the summoner spells aren't as vital to the role as say, Smite is for junglers or TP has become for top lane. Given that supports occupy a pretty unique position in the metagame, I think it's fitting that there be a summoner spell tailored to that role, and I think that summoner spell could take on some of the utility that Exhaust or Ignite currently offer to supports, given the enchantment system and the flexibility that offers (it could even offer different enchantments at tier 1 items, so you can go into lane having a spell that seems more like ignite or more like exhaust).

Meserion1 votes

this idea is intriguing I'd like support-centric items and skills rather than being forced to take the same old summoner spells because flash is too op and exhaust is too useful.

Marthian1 votes

All I think sightstone needs is just more options (such as an AP or mana option instead of just only an HP option) and to also recharge wards while roaming. With the recent buffs to Yellow trinket, you can easily skip SS in favor of Yellow trinket and still have lots of wards on the map without having to back so often (makes up for the lack of sweeper.)

MrBuffington1 votes

There are many suggestions to increase the slot-efficiency of sightstone, I'm just exploring a different option by reducing the reliance on sightstone for supports while also adding a new summoner spell, which I think could be valuable since the number of summoner spells being used has sort of stagnated. I also feel, as a support player, that sightstone is a bit outdated as an item, and, like you said, can be replaced already with an upgraded yellow trinket; the only reason it remains in use in the game is because sweeper is also highly important.

Basically it's a non-ideal situation in my mind; the easiest solution is like what you and countless other people on Boards suggest in making SS more slot efficient, perhaps incorporating a recharge mechanic or something that sets it as a better item than upgraded yellow trinket (especially since it's several times the cost, and is bought much earlier in the game when resources are more scarce), but I see this as an opportunity to do something more unique and interesting to the game than just buffing sightstone.

Marthian1 votes

I wasn't really aiming for slot-efficiency (though a little bit more wouldn't hurt.) I was aiming for more alternative stat boosts (which could be equally as efficient as the HP SS gives: not very.)

Partholonian1 votes

I think sightstone would have to be removed, otherwise New Thing + Sightstone + Trinket is still better than just New Thing + Trinket, and you haven't solved the burden of vision problem.

Instead, you've increased it: now you have to sacrifice 800 gold and a slot AND a summoner spell, making yourself EVEN WEAKER in all other areas, to provide vision that benefits everyone in general but not you in particular; and because of the importance of exhaust to protecting allies, I bet in a lot of cases it would be flash and not exhaust that is sacrificed, and if that gets you killed, oh well, you weren't doing much anyway, you're just the support, right?

The great thing about trinkets in that regard is that the ONLY thing you can get in place of a trinket is another trinket. It doesn't trade off against gold for other items, or slots for other items, and certainly not against summoner spells. Everyone gets a trinket because you can't get anything else by giving one up. (Whether they use them is another matter, of course.)

Vision should not trade off against power, because it leads to sacrificing the power of one to improve the vision of others. I love support champions when they have kits that save teammates' lives, lock down enemies, and control a fight (even if I'm not doing tons of damage myself); I hate the support position in the current meta when I'm the only person placing vision for everyone, and getting jumped in the jungle while I do, by champions who I not only have no chance of fighting, I also have no chance of even running away from, because in addition to my lower level I've sacrificed so many stats to buy things for other people that I just get insta-deleted with no way to do anything.

Supports don't have to be second-class champions. Riot should think about whether they want them to remain that way, or change some of the high-level design decisions that make them that way -- starting with "why don't you give up your gold so I can see more of the map".

P.S. If you want my more radical proposal: Two trinket slots for everyone (possibly one unlocking at a certain level if it's better to have people lane with only one trinket each at first), your two trinkets must be different, pink becomes its own trinket starting from level 1, introduce several more kinds of trinkets in addition to splitting off pink from yellow. Kalista, Ashe and Quinn's vision abilities could be a place to start, either with or without giving them new abilities instead. Some could be additional vision denial or vision countering trinkets, for example, a trinket that makes you invisible to everything except champions and turrets for a short duration or until you enter combat (allowing you to sneak past minions, wards, etc., provided you time it right and don't hang around). Maybe Scuttler's "everyone knows that you have this, and it's REALLY short ranged, but it's indestructible, they have to go around or be seen" vision spot. It would be great if there were enough that people had different preferences, or changed based on team comp/strat, even at pro levels. Rock/paper/scissors relationships between different vision and vision denial strats might be cool too.

No connection to any particular role, everyone has equal ability/responsibility for vision (except champions with vision in their kits), eliminate all gold-for-vision from the game (probably including Twin Shadows and the TT/HA detector items, although their actives might return as additional trinkets). Remove Clairvoyance. Trinkets upgrade automatically with level. Vision no longer requires/benefits from sacrificing other resources.

MrBuffington1 votes

I think sightstone would have to be removed, otherwise New Thing + Sightstone + Trinket is still better than just New Thing + Trinket, and you haven't solved the burden of vision problem.

I disagree; the reason supports don't take item 2049 and item 3361 is partially because they need item 3364, but most importantly because it's completely redundant; you can only have 3 green wards on the map. If a summoner spell could provide wards, it's pointless to invest in a sightstone because placing more wards would just negate the previous wards you placed.

Perhaps just a result of the way I play support and/or the supports I play, but I actually like the fact that the support controls much of the vision for the team. To me it's about controlling the map, I don't have to worry about farming or DPS since I'm the one controlling the map through vision and controlling fights through CC and utility. I actually feel like the support (and jungler) dictate the game because they don't have to sit in a lane and farm for 20 minutes to be useful. Vision is a form of power in the game, and a very underrated one at that. Yes, everyone is responsible for vision to a degree, but I like the support having more power in terms of vision.

Namamall1 votes

I definitely think this is a cool idea, but I feel like with trinkets, sightstone, and this summoner spell, supports would have more vision than they could actually use. Perhaps instead of creating a new summoner spell, support items could upgrade utility summoners like clarity, heal, clairvoyance, and exhaust.

MrBuffington1 votes

Yea, part of the effect of this is to de-emphasize sightstone on supports, so depending on how powerful the vision the summoner spell grants, I wouldn't expect supports to buy SS when carrying the spell.

This thread kind of is a combination of a few trends I've been seeing on Boards, where people want more variation or slot efficiency on SS, new or improved summoner spells, better support itemization (and also pets); I think there are smaller solutions that can tackle each problem but I also, as per this thread, think there can be an all-in-one solution. It's probably more difficult to implement and balance, but I think it could be cool. If nothing else, I kind of hope it generates some conversation on other balancing levers in the game, like having more item-summoner spell interaction.

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