New Banner of Command build seems counter intuitive

Candoodle·Nov 10, 2016·51 votes·2,313 views

So the active of this item was always meant to counter mages who can push your lane in easy but now the build path is mostly armor?

Why did they swap codex for shroud in build path? It doesnt make sense to me

I mean like everyone else i'm happy they removed aoe mr aura from aegis so it isnt a MUST buy, but the banner change? I always kind of liked the bit of ap on it so i could build it on bruiser ap types that might need a little help pushing waves.

I mean it's not like we were missing armor item options, even ones that help push (hello sunfire and rot)
I just dont see myself building this item anymore for anyreason

34 Comments

TalisidNov 10, 20169 votes

I'm fine with how it is on paper but in reality it just overlaps in function too much with item 3512

ChaddyFantomeNov 11, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I'm fine with how it is on paper but in reality it just overlaps in function too much with

exactly

XonraNov 11, 20161 votes

And without the ap on it now, I would much rather have zz'rot. All you are missing is some stats you would easily pick up with item 3065 you would likely already get as a tank, and item 3110 if you need that mana that bad. Then bam, 30% cdr already.

ThugWalrusNov 10, 20167 votes

yeah I don't know who the new banner is intended for to be honest. I liked it before because it was a nice way to incorporate a bit of AP into your build without sacrificing survivability or utility.

Supreme Senpai69Nov 11, 20161 votes

I built it on every AP support champion. CDR, AP, and a great active

XonraNov 11, 20161 votes

I built in on support Naut sometimes, as it gave him the tank stats, some ap (pretty much all his stuff has ap scaling), and it worked perfectly for just tossing it on a cannon minion as you are going to ward, and walk away.

Now, I don't get the point.

Unstoppable MonkNov 10, 20165 votes

Yorick item 3060 this season pleases me.

ChaddyFantomeNov 10, 20163 votes

Banner is dead on me, I used to get it on my Support Lulu and Nami and Janna, now it is pointless to me, at least Locket gives me OP shields.

Tyrone LannisterNov 10, 20162 votes

I got it on nunu. Felt aight. Its more a tank item now

CandoodleNov 10, 20161 votes

< nunu main :)

still liked the old banner better it filled a niche, now i cant see why i would get this over sun fire deadmans or frozen heart or even zz rot

CremepieNov 10, 20161 votes

I feel like it would be a very niche buy if your build still needed its stats, like if for some reason you got item 3071 & item 3065 and needed that 10% and a mana item, it could fill the role.

But still, It's really awkward and like you said, counter intuitive.

dunkeroniNov 10, 20161 votes

I feel like it works well as a mid-late game split item, or early against mixed damage champs like Jax Akali Teemo

YumaS2AstralNov 11, 20161 votes

I would rather build item 3025 in that situation. Yes, it has 20% CDR and thus it overcaps in CDR. But in the end, this item offers much more. It has a slow and some extra damage. While some champions do not really need the spellblade, those are nice additions.

item 3110 is also a good pick if instead of item 3071 you get item 3078

ZephyrDrakeNov 10, 20162 votes

there really isn't much point in getting Banner now other than double down on splitpushing with Zz'Rot since Locket is just superior in every way. You can easily get the armor elsewhere while the extra MR of locket could mean that you don't have to go out of your way to get some random MR item that you didn't care for

XonraNov 11, 20161 votes

Problem is I don't really see a huge point in locket anymore either, especially when they added item 3109 and item 3107 . It just feels underwhelming and meh to decent, from "Awesome must buy". I was okay buying it, but now I am perfectly fine skipping it and getting something else.

AwoofNov 11, 20161 votes

I still like it. The shield is huge, and unlike Redemption it's instant, and unlike Knight's Vow it's AOE and you don't have to "predict" who you are going to need to protect.

RisenDarkKnightNov 10, 20161 votes

Yeah it makes no sense to me that the active makes the minions immune to MAGIC damage when it is the ARMOR aegis upgrade.

They should remove the magic immunity and give the promoted minion more health and armor instead or something.

Solari FortuneNov 10, 20161 votes

I feel the reason it more armor based but has the magic immune minion active is they don't want to to be fully stopping Mages and such. If it gave MR and this active then it would kinda nullify a lot of mages and possibly build paths too.

CerealBoxOfDoomNov 10, 20161 votes

Banner is a siege item

you don't need MR to break the siege you need armor and hp

CandoodleNov 10, 20161 votes

this makes sense

dunkeroniNov 10, 20161 votes

I think they wanted to open it up to more laners (mostly supports) who want to be able to push lanes without having to build MR against an alll-damage team.

XonraNov 11, 20161 votes

But they didn't.

It is almost 100% a tank item now, but with no health. No support really cares that much about the active alone if you are buying it over the two new items that are FAR better for a support ( item 3109 item 3107 ), and other laners already have defensive options that are simply better.

Mages have item 3157 Tanks have...well a lot, and easily can get to 40% cdr And no adc or assassin was going to buy that regardless

It really has no niche anymore because item 3512 fills the same slot.

dunkeroniNov 11, 20161 votes

Except that you can have more than one item filling the "same slot" if that is most beneficial for the team. Think of banner as a cheaper, slightly modified version of zz'rot. They both provide defenses against mixed damage, and they both have an active that allows split pushing with minions.

ZZ'Rot has better defensive stats, but Banner gives cooldown and Mana (and the armor/mana side can be built early to help with difficult laning phase).

Sure, banner might not be a great late game item to fit into any build, but it is easy and helpful in a lot of early lanes that certain champions struggle in.

The Yetii RiderNov 11, 20161 votes

The reason Banner of Command builds out of Glacial Shroud is so tank supports have more access to CDR items now that Locket doesn't have it.

XonraNov 11, 20161 votes

item 3401 had 10% cdr item 3110 has 20% cdr item 3107 has 10% cdr

No one is getting banner over any of those 3. If they do, they are wasting gold.

The Yetii RiderNov 11, 20161 votes

{quoted}

had 10% cdr has 20% cdr has 10% cdr

No one is getting banner over any of those 3. If they do, they are wasting gold.

Yes, because if there's anything we know about support items, it's that they offer 40% and not a drop more. /s

DrakylonNov 11, 20161 votes

I thought Banner of Command never was intended to be a mage or bruiser item at all, but rather a support item. The old stats were just weird; you had an MR aura, some tank stats, CDR and then some random AP. Mages weren't buying it because it didn't give enough AP and they didn't need the other stats. Tank supports and tanks couldn't afford to waste gold on AP. Enchanters sometimes grabbed it, but they didn't really need the tank stats either.

ErockandrollNov 11, 20162 votes

{quoted}

I thought Banner of Command never was intended to be a mage or bruiser item at all, but rather a support item. The old stats were just weird; you had an MR aura, some tank stats, CDR and then some random AP. Mages weren't buying it because it didn't give enough AP and they didn't need the other stats. Tank supports and tanks couldn't afford to waste gold on AP. Enchanters sometimes grabbed it, but they didn't really need the tank stats either.

Defensive stat's really are the safest option for trying to balance it around multiple kinds of supports. It synergies well with tank supports, and the defensive stats arn't entirely useless on enchanters. So really people don't like how damage oriented mage supports, who mainly want to go glass cannon, don't have an option like this.

But that's actually fine, because mage supports really don't need the pushing power. (This may not sound very support like, but if you need to split push as a mage support, buy AP and split push.) But if a Tank needed to push lane, (especially support tanks) you had far fewer options.

XonraNov 11, 20161 votes

And it was great as a support item, but now it isn't.

Removing the AP means no ap mages are going to buy it. Removing the ap means people like Ali and Naut don't really want it as much anymore. It doesn't have health, so it isn't as attractive as the new item 3107 + item 3109 . I don't know who wants it anymore, because it isn't a good buy on supports anymore (there are better options for basic defense stats and cdr).

Removing the AP really made it unattractive to a large portion of people that might have wanted it, and moved it from "fun niche" to "why would I want to buy this?"

UmioNov 11, 20161 votes

{quoted}

So the active of this item was always meant to counter mages who can push your lane in easy but now the build path is mostly armor?

Why did they swap codex for shroud in build path? It doesnt make sense to me

I mean like everyone else i'm happy they removed aoe mr aura from aegis so it isnt a MUST buy, but the banner change? I always kind of liked the bit of ap on it so i could build it on bruiser ap types that might need a little help pushing waves.

I mean it's not like we were missing armor item options, even ones that help push (hello sunfire and rot)
I just dont see myself building this item anymore for anyreason

When I was against vigar or malz, this was always my first item to counter counter them with 24 Flat MR - they could never beat me in lane. Now I dont see any hope. Will need to figure out a new strat for Season7

XonraNov 11, 20161 votes

I think I would just go with "The new Banner of Command seems pointless".

I'm not sure I see the point to it anymore.

Just a stat stick for tanks with no health (already a huge turn off), when you could just get item 3512 instead with similar stats. Sure banner has the CDR, but it is pretty easy to get to 40% cdr. I'm not even sure who is supposed to build it anymore with the AP removed and a ton of mana. Anyone that would want that would just get item 3110 and then just get item 3065 . Bam 30% cdr, hp, armor, mr, and some great passives that are good always, and not just when you have a cannon minion.

I loved having banner on Support Naut. Now item 3060 and item 3190 both feel underwhelming to buy (especially locket. Went from must buy to completely worthless when you have item 3109 and item 3107 now as a support).

NodaYame127Nov 11, 20161 votes

All they did was give Nasus and Yorick stats and more split pushing all tank supps still need to get other items to do their job

Nameless VoiceNov 11, 20161 votes

I don't understand it either. Banner of Command was supposed to be an Enchanter/support item to allow you to contribute pushing to your team.

Now it's been re-worked as another item for tank supports... but tanks already have Zz'rot Portal if you went a pushing tool. Now there are two pushing tools for tanky champion and none for Enchanters.

I also find it sad that it was one of the few AP-support items that actually gave a decent chunk of AP. Now only Ardent Censer remains. Any support who actually wants AP now needs build standard (mage) AP items instead.

Kin KiraNov 11, 20161 votes

I think the change to banner is the worst part of the update. The CDR and MR was perfect against AP supports and even made it a good midlane pick. the Armor is useless on the item.