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Why We Should "Fix" the Value Of Dragon Buffs

FEDXSai··1 votes·354 views

with the current meta being rotational, i believe that the first dragon buff and the second dragon buff should be swapped, making it a more viable option early. Currently, the ideal play-style is kill bot lane, kill bot tower, and then kill mid lane (unless your enemy mid lane has a lot of wave-clear. ViktorVarus Anivia Azir ) essentially forcing the enemy botlane to either go mid and stop their siege or stay bot and take tower, I Believe that dragon could be a third potential objective for teams if their jungler could shorten his jungle time with dragon (would make him feel rewarded for taking dragon instead of farming fer dayz.) item 3930 also, this would allow their botlane to recover easier than forcing them to trade gold 4 gold and constantly being behind until mid or late game. the bonus 15% damage to turrets is a 105% Turret damage bonus if the enemy has at least 7 turrets left. so while you're not getting any gold from an early dragon, you're also only getting 5% damage on a additional turret. and that's assuming you actually get the chance to siege. the 2nd buff being 8% damage bonus is only helping out your carries and doesn't really do anything until mid game teamfights anyways. right now the counter play to rotation is rotation, and that's a difficult task to do in solo queue, yet alone low elo. this requires you to be more efficient with your xp and gold as well as staying in a group that requires siege. the only backlash i can see from this change is the fact assassins wont get as much early damage? (at most affecting your damage by 10 early) the dragon buff will seem more appealing this to your jungler and will require vision (at lower elos.) this would also force alot of fight early on in high elos, making a early dragon a claculated risk of "how long until the enemy nunu shows up?" and "how long does it take to kill it?" summoner 11 to wrap this up, i think it would increase the value of dragon as well as make its buffs much more threatening, making dragon smite would be more rewarding to pull off, and allowing your jungler and top lane to be more impactful on your early game to each lane (even if they do rush sated. with AP liss top)

18 Comments

Angry Monster5 votes

The problem is your hiding to much power from a losing team. First dragon at 30 minutes in is way more valuable than at 10 minutes. A late game dragon can be worth over 4k in stats. If both teams need to get dragon 2 for those stats it may be near impossible for a come behind victory since it is hard to get 1 let alone 2 when behind.

Smegma1233 votes

Yeah, comeback value of a first drag should not be underestimated.

FEDXSai1 votes

the problem is i feel like i'm seeing these comebacks too late. the first drag should have higher comeback potential and with rotational meta that just doesn't fit. if your adc wants to take bot tower while they're trying to siege mid having a bonus 15% turret damage is much more affective than 8% bonus damage and trying to teamfight the enemy

ValyrianBlade2 votes

This pretty much sums it up.

The first buff is the strongest (after the 5th) because it's the most accessible to both teams. Either you can get it early before falling behind, or you can steal once, or you can sneak one, or you can make one good play/catch somewhere and secure one. There are actually options when behind to get that first dragon and start mounting a comeback. Getting 2 dragons is a lot harder.

Further, first dragon buff should be weak early. There's a lot of potential to get dragons as early as level 4. If the reward was too large, it would mean whoever got the first dragon would have a pretty substantial lead. For what's perhaps the smallest objective on the map (comparable to bot/top lane outer turrets unless you're going for / denying the 5th dragon) there shouldn't be that much of an impact from getting it once.

An early 6% stat boost isn't going to make a huge difference immediately - it will however grow over time if you keep dragon control and go 2-0, 3-0, etc... Top lane shouldn't be decided because bot lane died at level 4 and the enemy got an early dragon (resulting in your opposing top laner getting your turret more easily).

Angry Monster1 votes

Further, first dragon buff should be weak early. There's a lot of potential to get dragons as early as level 4. If the reward was too large, it would mean whoever got the first dragon would have a pretty substantial lead. For what's perhaps the smallest objective on the map (comparable to bot/top lane outer turrets unless you're going for / denying the 5th dragon) there shouldn't be that much of an impact from getting it once.

if i implied that first dragon should start strong, that was not my intention. I was just pointing out how important the first can be.

ValyrianBlade1 votes

Oh no, that comment was aimed at OP.

FEDXSai1 votes

but being level 4 and taking drag means you're not getting gold from it. and i would rather be saving up for my bf early than try to get a small percentage boost of damage early. with this if a team has a gold lead they can sacrifice it for better sieging if it fits their team comp better than the opposite. have a bonus damage on both of your carries should (in my opinion) be harder to achieve.

ValyrianBlade1 votes

Think long term...

The ADC isn't tanking dragon. Yes, the turret would give more gold, but often-times you won't be able to take the turret fast enough at level 4 if you just got a kill on their ADC off of a gank. Also, your mid laner may come help at dragon, they won't come bot to kill a turret when no one is in lane.

If I'm at 1400 gold and low health after getting a kill from a gank (so I know my lane opponent has around 900 gold when they died), I'm going to choose dragon over clearing the wave for the rest of my gold every time. First, that dragon is going to give my whole team a lead - I already individually have one. It's the easiest way for an ADC to have an impact on their allies' lanes early. Second, if I'm really that close, I can ask my support/jungler to tank a camp for me (or let me have scuttle) so I can get enough for BF anyways. I'm pretty sure 99% of supports out there would even be willing to execute to gromp to get their ADC a BF Sword they'd otherwise be unable to buy (not to mention, with Doran's against dragon I'm probably going to recover enough health to do wolves anyways).

Angry Monster1 votes

don't forget that towers do not lose AR till 7 minutes into the game. It is almost impossible for an ADC to take one down pre 7 minutes cause of this fact. 7 minutes is roughly when a duo lane hits 6.

FEDXSai1 votes

my social life is calling but i would love to talk about this more with you at a later date? could i add you in game possibly? so far the strongest argument against :)

FEDXSai1 votes

did you read the post? the buff isnt only for your bot lane its to get your team to a point where they can teamfight earlier on. if youre enemy is at 900 and you got a single kill (if its first blood then 1300) you would be at 1200 gold? you ad and ap have a constant effect on the game but that second dragon buff is more effective the earlier it is in game. this bonus monster damage wont affect bot lane (for the most part) excluding more frequent ganks from their jungler.

FEDXSai1 votes

but those stats become a bigger threat overtime. the 2nd buff has a higher damage percentage increase and is more effective with more turrets. the damage buff given by the first during mid game is stronger at 30 min when you're behind then trying wasting time you could have used farming for gold early game. right now the only reason to get a drag is so the enemy doesn't get it once you've hit 2 drags (excluding bot side positioning)

Angry Monster1 votes

Damage to towers stat is not going to help a team when they are in their own base. 2 buff only helps those who are ahead.

You are making it harder to come back when you are already down thousands of gold. Players should not have to make god play after god play to make a come back. If my team outplays the enemy at the right time one dragon should be all it take to equal out the damage stat from it.

If the team is ahead and they want overwhelming power, that is what Dragon 5 is for.

Sry you are completely off base.

FEDXSai1 votes

? im not disagreeing with you. but if youre that far behind than taking that first dragon would be pointless either way. your enemy will have baron control and at that point youre being out damaged AND out sieged. in your scenario your team simply didnt prioritize (like how it is currently.) and at late game a bonus damage off a dragon rush seems...excessive.

Angry Monster1 votes

did you miss how much gold stats the first dragon can be worth?

First dragon is never a waste ( after 20 min). And in my ranked games i prioritize it over towers since towers do not respawn. Is 200 gold for the ADC really going to make a difference? Maybe, if they need a bf sword right that sec. But as a jungle main i am the one tanking dragon, they have plenty of time to got take my doubles or wraiths to make up the gold.

FEDXSai1 votes

i didn't create this forum to say I'm right you're wrong. i just wanted to have a discussion. i feel like dragon should be a strong early and a more of a gold sacrifice than a long term scaling win.

Smegma1232 votes

What you want dragon to be is a snowball mechanic. More power to the team that gets dragons first. But the reason dragon has these % scaling values is because it is designed more as a comeback mechanic. 5th dragon is a win condition. Otherwise, the main purpose of dragon is not to snowball your team, but to give losing teams a chance.

So while your proposed adjustments may help in making dragon better for the team that gets it, it also shifts the core intention of dragon away from comeback to snowball.

FEDXSai1 votes

that would probably be the effect. i just wanted a seiging options for team with bad siege other than early picks. maybe the reduction of the percentage stats would help?

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