Karma QoL improvements to release with new skin

Sulfuric·9/10/2014, 6:30:35 AM·36 votes·11,156 views

So, Karma is getting a new skin. Cool. I figured this would be a good time to talk about some minor quality of life improvements that she could use.

  1. Mantra Q (Soulfire)

Problem: Currently, if Karma uses her mantra Q, and then dies, the circle that normally explodes after a short time actually disappears. Most champions have their abilities continue as normal if they die after casting them, and Karma should be no different. I've lost many kills where I could have traded if this didn't happen.

Fix: Make it so if Karma dies after she uses Mantra Q, the circle still explodes and deals damage as normal. (see bottom of post, apparently mantra Q circle doesn't disappear as much as I thought)

  1. Mantra casting

Problem: Karma suffers from a problem that is inherently unique to her kit. She has an ability (mantra) that affects one of her other abilities but does nothing by itself. No other champions has this type of kit interaction. The problem is that in stressful situations, Karma has to press an extra key to use any of her empowered abilities. Sometimes I press R right before CC wears off and find myself using a normal ability instead of the empowered ability that I thought I used. Sometimes I'm milliseconds too late and I can't even cast the ability because I had to hit R first. Either way, it's very frustrating as a Karma player when my champion has to jump through an extra hoop just to get her to do what I want.

Fix: **Make it so that Karma can cast Mantra while affected by hard CC. **This means that if you get stunned, you can hit R, and then the instant you escape CC you can use the Mantra empowered ability you want. Riot has stated that "fighting the game" is an aspect they want to reduce/remove, and I feel like here we have that option. Just to clarify, I do NOT want to change Karma so she can cast a Mantra empowered ability during CC. I just want to change Mantra so it functions the same way Gangplank's W, Alistar's R, etc. all work (aka, castable during CC).

Thoughts, questions?

Thanks for your time.

Follow up edit: I've been testing the Mantra Q disappear-after-death thing and it seems that it does not happen 100% of the time like I thought. I just want to correct that myself and say that it doesn't always disappear. I don't know if something has changed in a recent patch because I know I have seen this happen to me before, but perhaps it's already been fixed. I'm having a hard time replicating it by myself vs. minions/monsters, so it might be constricted to champion interactions. Anyway, the second part dealing with casting mantra during CC is what I REALLY want to change, the first part is more of what I consider a bug fix.

44 Comments

RiotMeddler9/11/2014, 5:30:13 PM18 votes

Good suggestions, we'll get those in.

I'd also like to highlight your approach with this post as really well done. Your statement of problem's explained concisely in a way so that even people less familiar with the champion will get a clear understanding of why it matters and how it compares to similar functionality in game. That's then followed by a separate solution section that directly addresses the stated issue, with a focus on core functionality, not power. Great for making stuff like this really actionable.

tau439/10/2014, 4:51:24 PM5 votes

I like it.

Doogmi9/10/2014, 7:51:57 AM3 votes

I like the first one and don't like the second one. Agreed I think if a champion has an ability over a duration and the initial cast got of before said champion was killed. The ability should not just stop. I disagree with allowing mantra to be used while CCD. Misclicking is a mistake, and mistakes should be punished. In the same way when you do something correctly, you should be rewarded.

Dgreentheawesome9/10/2014, 11:28:58 PM2 votes

She has an ability (mantra) that affects one of her other abilities but does nothing by itself. No other champions has this type of kit interaction.

Zilean has this, and (having never played Karma) I think its rather obnixious for a champion to be able to cast any ability that *isnt directly related to countering cc and/or death * during crowd control? Can Zil even ult during cc?

karmacide9/10/2014, 9:06:58 AM2 votes

I like both of the options.

Lord Graves III9/11/2014, 7:19:37 AM2 votes

Rock solid. I don't even think shed need nerfed afterwards.

I even like the idea of Karma's extreme reserves of willpower and meditative strength letting her mantra through CC.

Jingerbeardman9/11/2014, 5:46:09 PM2 votes

As one of the top 20 players who have played karma most in ranked this season... I approve of these suggestions.

kitcat3009/11/2014, 5:42:28 PM2 votes

Love both ideas.

BTW, doesn't Heimerdinger's ult function the same as Karma's too?

Cubism9/12/2014, 12:04:12 AM1 votes

So much positive from riot. Dayum

Final Spark9/12/2014, 12:36:49 AM1 votes

I approve of both of these suggestions. Allowing Karma to prepare her mantra while CC'd would just be super nice as a karma player and won't really effect those playing against her at all - no other champion has an ultimate that functions like hers and it isn't like the case some have made(imagine if Zilean -could- R while dead!) because her mantra gives her no stats, no damage reduction, nothing. It simply changes what her next ability cast will do. Karma

Hyrum Graff9/18/2014, 7:49:51 AM1 votes

I'd just like to jump in here with a note to people who don't play karma about #why this change is important:

#Often times, cc will interrupt you during a combo, causing you to miss a mantra:

Scenario 1:

  • You intend to r-w
  • You get cc'd just as you hit r
  • You cast w, thinking you are casting r-w
  • w goes on cooldown without mantra effect :(

Scenario 3:

  • You intend to r-w-q
  • you hit r
  • you get cc'd as you hit w
  • you hit q
  • r-q goes off instead of r-w

As we all know, mantra usage is what distinguishes the good karmas from the great karmas. Allowing enemy cc to change your decision is very frustrating, and takes away from a player's ability to gain mastery over karma.

ILoveTiramisu9/10/2014, 4:50:21 PM1 votes

I like playing karma, she is my favorite champion. ( http://www.lolking.net/summoner/euw/35122159 )

In like 100 match with her, I play her like support, and she is so fu*king funny. She is very balanced I think (Also if pro said she is tier 2 like supp, I think she is tier 1).

SerBlaise9/10/2014, 4:54:30 PM1 votes

I like the first one, the second one if iffy. I don't think I can cast W as Jax while Hard CC'd and prepare an empowered autoattack....why should karma be able to empower her abilities under the same circumstances?

stealmykiss9/10/2014, 7:47:04 PM1 votes

I want the old Karma back... sorry, just can't like the new one lol

Remlap12239/11/2014, 4:45:09 AM1 votes

I agree with the first one OP, that I think is a big reason why nobody like Karma (Karma is one of my main supports, I love her she's mah gurl with Quinn as awesome but underappreciated). The second one I'm a little iffy on. Granted, it's not as debilitating as say, casting Cho's feral scream, but I think lets leave the CC ignoring to Olaf and Gangplank.

jmonster1299/11/2014, 2:22:55 PM1 votes

I like both ideas, although id understand if riot didn't implement the second idea

Another thing id like to add (well actually two things), are her W reveal and her RE bugged? shield values.

Karma's W reveal is wonky in that, it reveals the enemy while they are tethered but not while they are rooted, even though i believe the reveal icon stays above there head, her w i feel should reveal the enemy for the duration of the tether and the root, its weird having sight of an enemy and then losing sight because they walked into a bush as they were rooted, you know they're there and can't move but you can't use auto attacks to make use of your passive

Secondly, is just a thing that scarizard said wayyyyy long ago back when karma was about to be released, and it was that her RE was supposed to give the initial target that you select a bonus shield on top of the base shield, so that that target would have a slightly stronger shield than the rest, idk if this has already been addressed by a rioter yet but i still haven't heard whether or not the fact that this DOES NOT happen in game is a bug or intended. The weird thing is that RE gives a shield based on your R rank, so if you have leveled up your e enough, RE can actually provide a weaker shield than your standard e, thats why scarizard said that the initial target would get the base E shield plus the bonus shield value from R, and the rest of your allies in the AOE would get just the bonus R shield

Lastly i just wanted to say that Karma should have a haste animation, she was reworked right about the time where haste animations on every new champion was starting to be a thing, but its odd that she has a MS buff ability but doesn't have a haste animation herself, she just does her twisted fate jog.... but faster... (her run animation itself isn't all that pretty for the classy lady that karma is) I think her haste or new run animation should get rid of the clenched fists, they make her seem tense which doesnt fit her character, i think open hand, flat palms would be better, and a sort of run where she kinda runs to her side with one arm across her chest and the other arm extended behind her would work

sorry for such a long post, been playing karma for a long time and have always had these thoughts and ideas for my bad

pro4never9/11/2014, 8:54:28 PM1 votes

I'm aware it's a problem (or benefit depending on how you view it) with a lot of skills... but trying to mantra Q and then flash causes it to go the opposite direction. The number of quickly executed plays I've tried to pull off on Karma only to make myself look like a fool (and then usually die right after) is getting pretty silly.

I'm cool with the extra windup and cast time on things like W (annoying not being able to mantra W to near instantly heal but I totally get it, it needs to be that way) but with how quick most of karma's combo execution usually is, having to try to wait such a long time after casting mantra Q before being able to safely flash really sucks.

exec39/11/2014, 9:00:14 PM1 votes
  1. This actually happens with a lot of champions. It would be nice if Riot could do a pass t make all these AoE or other effects not fizzle out after death (semi related it'd be nice if so many champions like trist, ez and more wouldn't complete their movement spells if they get CC'd, such a huge bug ez getting blitz pulled but still blinking to safety and awkwardly doing so at that).

  2. Heimer says hi! :)