The fact that Devourer hasn't been nerfed yet is sad.

Gare Jordans·Aug 17, 2015·68 votes·3,828 views

The item, as it is, encourages AFK farming in the jungle with auto-attack reliant junglers. Once they get Sated Devourer, they come out of the jungle at a higher level than everyone else, dealing more damage than everyone else. The item alone makes them impossible to duel, and a "must-focus" in team fights. The item also allows Sated junglers to take turrets absurdly quick, faster than most adcs.

Why are Sated Devourer junglers being allowed to hit such massive power spikes through non-interactive gameplay? In NA alone, two common Sated Devourer junglers are being banned often, Shyvana and Kayle.

http://www.lolking.net/charts?region=na&type=bans&range=monthly&map=sr&queue=1x1&league=ranked

50 Comments

Dr PoroAug 17, 201520 votes

The real question: Why is Devourer on purchase the most cost efficient item ingame while it's a stacking item?

ZeralyosAug 17, 20152 votes

Because attack speed as a whole is not very efficient in the early game.

Robert SmithAug 17, 20151 votes

Cause reasons. JK maybe because AA Junglers don't have any early game damage and riot wanted to give them some early to mid game power.

AbrahamBaconhamAug 17, 20151 votes

I've heard multiple people say this, yet I have yet to see any math supporting the claim. Could you link us to the Original Thread?

ChaoticPineconeAug 17, 20153 votes

Because the math done to find cost efficiency is misleading.

Runeglaive - 129% gold efficiency without counting the Spellblade proc or the 8% mana refund on monsters. Devourer - 150% gold efficient with its passive at no stacks.

Now, follow me with this logic - the Devourer's 30 on hit magic damage per auto is said to be worth 600 gold, taken from the Recurve Bow. However, the Recurve Bow does physical damage on hit, not magic damage on hit. A better item to compare it to would be the Wits End, which also does flat magic damage on hit. The Wits End (unstacked) is worth 2100 gold without the on-hit damage - for it to be cost efficient, the 42 on hit magic damage needs to be worth 500 gold, or every 1 magic damage on hit is worth 12 gold (fully stacked, the Wits End's is 100% cost efficient without the on-hit damage). If we apply this math to the Devourer, the 30 on-hit magic damage is only worth 360 gold. Im not sure who thought using the cost efficiency of on-hit physical damage to quantify on-hit magical damage was a good idea - its like saying that 1 physical damage is equal to 1 magic damage which is equal to 1 true damage, which is just not true.

Now, even if we assume the Devourer's cost efficiency is correct at 150%, the Runeglaive has a modified Lich Bane proc that isnt included in its efficiency. The Sheen is only cost efficient if the Spellblade proc is worth 256 gold. If we include the 256 gold for the Spellblade proc, the Runeglaive is very only slightly behind the Devourer's cost efficiency. However, the Runeglaive doesnt have a basic sheen proc - it also has a 30% AP ratio and an 8% mana refund. If these two passives are worth more than 40 gold, then the Runeglaive is more efficient than 150%.

RocketRelmAug 17, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Now, follow me with this logic - the Devourer's 30 on hit magic damage per auto is said to be worth 600 gold, taken from the Recurve Bow. However, the Recurve Bow does physical damage on hit, not magic damage on hit. A better item to compare it to would be the Wits End, which also does flat magic damage on hit. The Wits End (unstacked) is worth 2100 gold without the on-hit damage - for it to be cost efficient, the 42 on hit magic damage needs to be worth 500 gold, or every 1 magic damage on hit is worth 12 gold (fully stacked, the Wits End's is 100% cost efficient without the on-hit damage). If we apply this math to the Devourer, the 30 on-hit magic damage is only worth 360 gold. Im not sure who thought using the cost efficiency of on-hit physical damage to quantify on-hit magical damage was a good idea - its like saying that 1 physical damage is equal to 1 magic damage which is equal to 1 true damage, which is just not true.

The problem with this is that Wits End is a full item, and therefore to call wits end '100% cost efficient' and leave it there is misleading. Putting Wit's End at a more reasonable number, say, 120% cost efficiency, puts the numbers approximately back in line.

ChaoticPineconeAug 18, 20151 votes

Oh - i thought i addressed that.

That is why i chose to use the unstacked cost efficiency of Wits End for the calculations. The only other 'stacking' items in the game with a similar mechanic are Guinsoos Rageblade (75% gold efficiency without stacks) and the Sanguine Blade (95% gold efficiency without stacks).

Something else to consider - the other stacking items sit at around 100% gold efficiency with the base stats alone, albeit with different stacking mechanisms. The Mejais and Occult start around 90% cost efficiency on purchase. RoA at 107%. Tear at 95%, Archangels at 92%, Manamune at 80%. Seekers Armguard at 95%.

Even if we assume that the Wits End starts at 100% gold efficiency, something no other 'in-combat' stacking item does, its damage is not worth 20gold per 1 magic damage.

KeevalroyAug 18, 20153 votes

Two even better questions: Why does Devourer even exist? Why can't Riot accept that this item will NEVER BE BALANCED?

foinhasAug 18, 20152 votes

just a reminder that devourer costs 2250 and not 1400

HaIlMonitorAug 17, 20158 votes

People just hate the idea that some one can get fed by farming. They think kills are the only thing that does that but I am afraid that is a wrong state of mind. If you have 200cs and your opponent only has 80 by 20 minutes even if you have ZERO kills you would still be able to kill him 1v1.

Gare JordansAug 17, 201510 votes

{quoted}

People just hate the idea that some one can get fed by farming. They think kills are the only thing that does that but I am afraid that is a wrong state of mind. If you have 200cs and your opponent only has 80 by 20 minutes even if you have ZERO kills you would still be able to kill him 1v1.

Yeah but there's a difference between creep scoring in lane and farming in the jungle. Creep scoring in lane requires the ability to trade damage with your opponent(s), watch to see where the enemy jungler is and if you may be getting ganked, and knowing when a good time to leave your creeps to help another lane. Being the jungler, you don't have to deal with these things. You get to roam around the map farming with little to no contest for your jungle. You shouldn't be getting a power spike larger than that which laners get for farming in a far easier fashion than them. It just doesn't make sense. Feral Flare was deleted for a very similar reason.

HaIlMonitorAug 17, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Gare Jordans,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uRUtKBQA,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2015-08-17T06:32:50.977+0000)

Yeah but there's a difference between creep scoring in lane and farming in the jungle. Creep scoring in lane requires the ability to trade damage with your opponent(s), watch to see where the enemy jungler is and if you may be getting ganked, and knowing when a good time to leave your creeps to help another lane. Being the jungler, you don't have to deal with these things. You get to roam around the map farming with little to no contest for your jungle. You shouldn't be getting a power spike larger than that which laners get for farming in a far easier fashion than them. It just doesn't make sense. Feral Flare was deleted for a very similar reason.

They didn't delete that item, It was always here this season with normal devour lol. Sated is not equal to feral flare as it makes passive way stronger.

Rustling BushAug 17, 20152 votes

{quoted}

They didn't delete that item, It was always here this season with normal devour lol. Sated is not equal to feral flare as it makes passive way stronger.

and that devourer got nerfed then removed, and then came sated, its really unhealthy on some champions, ap xin got nerfed because of how absurd his healing was, additionally devourer on him allows him to proc the knock up the 2nd hit and heal per 2nd hit, thats a pretty absurd power spike for xin, it allows vayne jungle to proc her %true hp dmg that you can't build against nearly twice as fast. its a cancer item

HaIlMonitorAug 17, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Summoner Grey,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uRUtKBQA,comment-id=0001000000000000,timestamp=2015-08-17T08:17:17.603+0000)

and that devourer got nerfed then removed, and then came sated, its really unhealthy on some champions, ap xin got nerfed because of how absurd his healing was, additionally devourer on him allows him to proc the knock up the 2nd hit and heal per 2nd hit, thats a pretty absurd power spike for xin, it allows vayne jungle to proc her %true hp dmg that you can't build against nearly twice as fast. its a cancer item

They gave his AP ratio back. They Nerfed it to .5 then buffed it back to .7 lol.

I GANK LANESAug 17, 20151 votes

this. shyvana is obnoxious right now, stupid strong.

Cenobite AzazielAug 17, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Gare Jordans,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uRUtKBQA,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2015-08-17T06:32:50.977+0000)

Yeah but there's a difference between creep scoring in lane and farming in the jungle. Creep scoring in lane requires the ability to trade damage with your opponent(s), watch to see where the enemy jungler is and if you may be getting ganked, and knowing when a good time to leave your creeps to help another lane. Being the jungler, you don't have to deal with these things. You get to roam around the map farming with little to no contest for your jungle. You shouldn't be getting a power spike larger than that which laners get for farming in a far easier fashion than them. It just doesn't make sense. Feral Flare was deleted for a very similar reason.

Feral flare had a power spike in 12 minutes. Devourer has a power spike in 20 minutes or more.20 minutes is time enough to win a 4x5 game, since devourer ganks generally sucks.

Cenobite AzazielAug 17, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Gare Jordans,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uRUtKBQA,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2015-08-17T06:32:50.977+0000)

Yeah but there's a difference between creep scoring in lane and farming in the jungle. Creep scoring in lane requires the ability to trade damage with your opponent(s), watch to see where the enemy jungler is and if you may be getting ganked, and knowing when a good time to leave your creeps to help another lane. Being the jungler, you don't have to deal with these things. You get to roam around the map farming with little to no contest for your jungle. You shouldn't be getting a power spike larger than that which laners get for farming in a far easier fashion than them. It just doesn't make sense. Feral Flare was deleted for a very similar reason.

Feral flare was deleted because the power spike was possible at 12 minutes. Sates gets it at 20 min. With dragons and scutlers. Another reason was that devourer brings interaction with scutler and dragon (objectives for both teams) . So, if you AFK farm ignoring said objectives, won't get far away) . Feral flare was just the 8 route farming in season 4.

Sure. You trade in lane. Do you tank 24/ 7 the damage of the creeps? This isn't season 4 that monster were ok. S5 monsters hit like a truck. Laners get more gold AND don't need to pay up 300 gold (machete) so they can play the game.You can say you pay up 750 gold to be able to PLAY the game (machete upgrade).

The mid laner can push their lane and roam top and bot easily. If there is no gank avaliable He'll eat raptors and wolves and blue Top laner can push it up and has a TP to gank bot lane. He can eat up gromp and wolves. When you have to rush out from your lane to help the jungler/bot lane in the river, you will lose some CS. If the jungler does the same thing, to babysit their laners, the camps will reset, doing more damage than a bad trade in lane. It isn't uncommon that you are in your jungle with no camps, because the laners ate all them. It isn't uncommon that when you are killing gromp, a bot lane gank shows up and you can't because go there because you are on the other side of the map.

Junglers don't have a big mean tower just behind them to save them from ganks. Junglers can't farm"under the tower"inside the jungle. If you stay inside shut in your jungle and don't help laners, you won't get assist gold. You won't get kills gold. The laner can get easily more gold if they snowball. So laners can get way more gold than junglers.

Before sh*tting on other people role, play role or at least understand it's mechanics..

"Far easier".

LlaniteAug 18, 20151 votes

Invalid due to Heimerdinger Xerath Malzahar Anivia Ahri exist.

So you think clearing the jungle is less effort than clicking one button and have the entire wave killed?

Jungling takes more risk than a laner does, you can be ganked anytime, at less-than-ideal HP and have no safe ground to retreat.

And no, it's very easy to predict a devourer, they are bound to show at some places eventually(raptor/golem/crab), all you have to do is ward and wait till they show up at 50% HP then go collect your gold.

youngjake93Aug 18, 20154 votes

[{quoted}](name=Gare Jordans,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uRUtKBQA,comment-id=,timestamp=2015-08-17T05:49:22.263+0000)

Once they get Sated Devourer, they come out of the jungle at a higher level than everyone else, dealing more damage than everyone else. The item alone makes them impossible to duel, and a "must-focus" in team fights. The item also allows Sated junglers to take turrets absurdly quick, faster than most adcs.

The item alone does not make them impossible to duel... It's an item that is popular on auto-attack bruisers who are already amazing at dueling regardless of what they build. The only turret-killing power it provides is 50% attack speed, the on-hit doesn't apply to turrets nor does the phantom strike so you're just making things up. A lot of champions that build Devourer can build Tri Force and smite Krugs to take turrets faster than ADCS, but that has nothing to do with Devourer.

SlaktarTaskenAug 17, 20153 votes

Don't worry, they will look into it after LC$BIGPLAY$. :>

Synx7Aug 17, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Don't worry, they will look into it after LC$BIGPLAY$. :>

LC$ Big Pay$ *

Teridax68Aug 17, 20152 votes

It's likely item 3718 and item 3931 need a direct nerf, but I don't think that's the only thing that could, or should, be done to bring them back in line. For starters, Devourer's only a major issue on a handful of champions whose power explodes far too soon and too strongly once they reach Sated, e.g. Shyvana and Kayle , and on most other champions, including champions who'd normally go nuts with the effects it has (like MasterYi or Warwick ) it's a bit more reasonable.

I think the other issue, and an issue that also occurred at the time of Feral Flare, is that counterjungling/invading really sucks right now. item 3711 is one of the least popular items in the game, and in general there isn't that much support for anti-farming strats or champions, which means the natural way to counter hard farming in the jungle isn't well-enabled for the time being, and so stacking up Devourer carries far less risk than it should. Honestly, I think bringing counterjunglers, invaders and other anti-junglers to the forefront in a manner similar to previous jungle updates would solve most of the issues with Devourer right now, though it might be some time before we reach that stage.

WakamuneAug 17, 20152 votes

The problem is you can build both devourers and poachers and just farm as you please in any jungle you wish, if you can pull it off.

Teridax68Aug 17, 20151 votes

Fair enough, but the issue I was mentioning is that one of the reasons Devourer is strong is because Poacher's, and counterjungling/invading in general, are super-weak. In an ideal world, counterjungling should be a viable option for a jungler to take that would a) produce results with some degree of reliability (i.e. you're not as liable to waste tons of time and resources in pointless excursions into the enemy jungle), and b) not gimp said jungler's performance elsewhere to the same degree as now, and since that strategy counters Devourer's hard-farming, it should be pretty effective at curbing its power (and this should also apply even if your opponent goes Devourer + Poacher's, though doing so would likely be suicide on its own, considering how most Devourer-based junglers are horribly weak early on). Ultimately, the problem isn't just that Sated Devourer tends to give too much power too early, but also that the appropriate counter-strategy to slow down its progress isn't being supported by the game at all right now.

KaeblenAug 18, 20151 votes

Devourer, kind of is the counter jungling item right now.

once a devourer champion comes across the river the other jungler pretty much gets invalidated, because they can't duel them.

ManadarAug 17, 20152 votes

So interact with them, invade and counter them. Plenty of champs in the game are capable of shitting on devour junglers.

ks916Aug 17, 20152 votes

I just want a balanced jungle... plz rito, this season has had a shit ton of changes so far devourer junglers, warrior junglers to cinderhulk, to runeglave, back to devourer. It seems since season 5 hit the jungle meta changes every other patch.... it's a pain if your a jungle main especially with all the bans going to jungle, you need to have a large champion pool, it's pretty common to see 6 jungle bans which is annoying as fck.

Nidalee SO NYAAAAug 17, 20152 votes

I fucking hate the item because they are nerf Kayle agian! Then they are to nerf Shyvana and all because of this damn item

BakedLotionAug 17, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Gare Jordans,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uRUtKBQA,comment-id=,timestamp=2015-08-17T05:49:22.263+0000)

The item, as it is, encourages AFK farming in the jungle with auto-attack reliant junglers. Once they get Sated Devourer, they come out of the jungle at a higher level than everyone else, dealing more damage than everyone else. The item alone makes them impossible to duel, and a "must-focus" in team fights. The item also allows Sated junglers to take turrets absurdly quick, faster than most adcs.

Why are Sated Devourer junglers being allowed to hit such massive power spikes through non-interactive gameplay? In NA alone, two common Sated Devourer junglers are being banned often, Shyvana and Kayle.

http://www.lolking.net/charts?region=na&type=bans&range=monthly&map=sr&queue=1x1&league=ranked

how do they take turrets faster? it doesnt even work on turrets

SlampieceHawkeAug 18, 20152 votes

Devourer being the scapegoat of botrk once again.

foinhasAug 18, 20152 votes

How about just fixin' the damn item so it doesn't actualy counts as an attack? Riot themselves said in reddit that it was just a workaround they found (basically, phantom attack behaves like an attack with 0 ad), while it should behave more like hurricane

HaIlMonitorAug 17, 20151 votes

I don't think you see what I see. 8 of the 10 are junglers, so sated is only 1/4th of the junglers banned. And the top two bans are both RG so maybe they should fern that first from this logic?

Craft ZeppelinAug 17, 20156 votes

{quoted}

I don't think you see what I see. 8 of the 10 are junglers, so sated is only 1/4th of the junglers banned. And the top two bans are both RG so maybe they should fern that first from this logic?

Well it might be because the community realised there are too many devourer viable junglers that banning just one of them just makes players switch to a similar alternative.

Gare JordansAug 17, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Craft Zeppelin,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uRUtKBQA,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2015-08-17T06:16:42.441+0000)

Well it might be because the community realised there are too many devourer viable junglers that banning just one of them just makes players switch to a similar alternative.

I was thinking something similar to what you said. Oh? They banned Shyvana? I'll just pick Kayle. Oh Kayle is banned too? I'll pick Udyr. And so on.

Craft ZeppelinAug 17, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Gare Jordans,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uRUtKBQA,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2015-08-17T06:19:06.373+0000)

I was thinking something similar to what you said. Oh? They banned Shyvana? I'll just pick Kayle. Oh Kayle is banned too? I'll pick Udyr. And so on.

yeah, and also the charts show that nidalee and elise which counterjungle and nightmarish ambushes are banned. stapling the position of the devourer "item" rather than the "champion".

Remlap1223Aug 17, 20151 votes

Goddamn they banned Udyr too? Oh well, it's NOOBLORD TIME! Wait, they banned Yi too? I hear Jax jungle is pretty tits now.

WiegrafOfValorAug 17, 20151 votes

The problem is how often they proc on-hit effect, they should change it to the third AA not the second, and also nerf it's AS, but buff the initial damage and final damage to 50 initial and 100 final. (giving another light nerf by increasing the number of stacks to become sated)

Silents429Aug 17, 20151 votes

No tuning is happening until they finish the upcoming Juggernaut rework, and the marksmen reworks, as it's important to see the results from these before changing another meta item.

Only Play DariusAug 17, 20151 votes

They just need to make it melee only because Kayle Vayne are miles more obnoxious with it then the other melee DPS junglers.

QuincyFalconAug 17, 20151 votes

It will have its time to shine for a few patches just like Feral Flare did. After that, it will be nerfed into oblivion or removed just like Feral Flare. History will repeat itself (I hope) lol.

ModAcademy KaynAug 17, 20151 votes

The problem is that it Devourer is making a bunch more people in the jungle viable, while also making some broken. They're trying to figure out a way to nerf it, without killing those it had made viable again.

1999 01 17Aug 17, 20151 votes

the magic damage doesn't work on turrets so devourer is kinda shitty for knocking them down tbh

Psi21Aug 17, 20151 votes

Remove cinderhulk and sure I am ok with devourer being removed. This whole tanky dps started this garbage.

WyrmbladeAug 17, 20151 votes

I've honestly barely noticed devourer, but I guess that's because I only play tanks that can poop all over them with peel.

BalgothAug 18, 20151 votes

I don't think it needs to be nerfed. I think it should be updated somehow so that it focuses more around taking large objectives like dragon and baron. There are a handful of champions who are kinda broken with it if given the chance to AFK farm in their jungle without being counter jungled.

BuzzinTateAug 18, 20151 votes

Shyvana is one of the ones i hate most with it

GaddafiAug 18, 20151 votes

Devourer is fantastic on almost every jungler lol maybe even Amumu.

SasogwaAug 18, 20151 votes

This is mostly right except the tower part. Sated jungler suck dicks at taking towers unlike adcs because most of their damage come from on-hit effects which towers are immune from

Aboylova92Aug 18, 20151 votes

I made a post about this when it first came out and was down voted/disagreed with. I play jungle quite a bit, and while there are ways to counter them for a bit, at the core of it, it promotes an un-interactive gameplay. I can deny you CS in lane, but it's very hard to deny someone CS in their jungle. Sure you can take one camp, maybe two, but it's barely going to set back the devour jungler, especially if they get something like a scuttle.

While I like that they tried to make all the items in a good spot, I'm not sure devour as an item is healthy for the game. I don't mind carry junglers, but I'd rather have me have a chance in being able to stop them from getting fed, then sitting in the jungle for 20 minutes and emerge a God.

BlkGolemAug 18, 20151 votes

Idk why it starts at 30 stacks first of all even if it gets sated; feral flare was op for a reason.