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Urgot: League's most forgotten Rework

TrainerRobo··39 votes·16,049 views

I'm a bit confused about Urgot right now. He's my best and most played champion and I've been playing him since a few weeks after the rework. Many Urgot mains, including myself, just feel a bit ticked off that Urgot isn't really getting any love, and that hes getting screwed over unintentionally by all the ranged nerfs that are in place to prevent ADC's from abusing items. He hasn't had a new skin since 2012, Frozen mallet's nerf on ranged champions made the item much less viable to build, and he is completely unable to build melee items that greatly benefit Juggernauts such as Sterak's Gage. Alongside that, many runes don't work on urgot that well after they've been nerfed due to other champs abusing them. I get it, for the most part as of right now he's strong in lower elo since people don't know how to counter him. Another thing that has sort of ticked us off as Urgot mains is the fact you at riot are all willing to take risks on other champions weeks after the rework (i.e. Irelia, it literally said that in the recent patch notes), yet Urgot keeps getting somewhat screwed over instead of getting the love he deserves as the supervillian of Zaun.

A few ideas that could help get around this: Separating ranged champions into two classes: Light range, and heavy range. Allowing the AA's that proc shotgun knees to count as melee, making Urgot a sort of hybrid champ. A zaunite black market in Urgot's passive where Urgot can purchase melee only items for a higher price

I know it sounds like im being a whiny man-baby, and you might be right, but i feel completely justified in my frustration. He feels so boring to play, as there's little to no differentiation in builds anymore. You typically build the same build every game! All in all, as I just want to know if something is in the works and if you guys are willing to take a risk on Leagues most badass, chem-baron killin', half man half machine.

EDIT: I would love to hear feedback on my post, both positive and negative, whether you agree with me or not, espeically if you're a Rioter. I love talking about my main

EDIT 2: Here is a conversation I had with Rioter "Cosmic Existence"

robochicken7: But i have a question thats been bugging me for a while that maybe you can help with? Its regarding a champion I hold dear to my heart: Urgot

Cosmic Existence: Yeah! What's up?

robochicken7:Is there any plans to try and attempt to let him use melee items again? I know you at riot have tried it where he can just straight up build them like he could immediately after the rework, but didnt enjoy it. I saw a post later on though, about making the shots that proc shotgun knees count as melee, and was wondering if that's something you are considering? I would love to build Titanic, Ravenous, and Sterak's on my main cough one-trick cough Urgot again

Cosmic Existence: Right now we're avoid that, even Rakan (bless his heart), can't use melee items avoiding*

robochicken7: That's fair. I just feel as if Urgot, being the only ranged juggernaut, somewhat suffers from poor itemization is all. That's alright though. If urgot gets it, rakan and thresh mains will break out of their dens and riot at... Well, Riot.

Cosmic Existence: Haha True

Ranged items aren't great for juggernauts right now

I hope there's new changes to come

EDIT 3: After asking a group of Urgot players 4 important questions, I received these answers.

What makes Urgot easy to play?

In my eyes, Urgot is a prime example of a beginner-friendly tank. His kit is simple and easy to learn, allowing almost anyone to pick him up and learn him. Perhaps the most complex part of his kit is Echoing Flames, but the effect of them becomes quickly noticeable once a new player uses his W. Nothing about his kit is daunting or seems high-skill, which gives an inviting feeling for new players. Urgot is also the ONLY ranged juggernaut, and can counter many toplaners who are commonly annoying to play against. He has a fast CD on his executing ult, and in general has decent poke with his q and (minimal) ranged auto. Also being able to deal big damage to anyone with a full round of shotgun knees is nice when you can pull it off. he counters many of the bruisers currently in the game.

What makes Urgot hard to play?

Urgot is almost always very telegraphed. his Q, E and R all have lengthy cast times and delays, which often require prediction of the enemy's movement or mindgames to make work effectively. He also lacks good mobility, which causes him to get ganked easily. His E and R are perhaps the most skill-effective tools at his disposal. his E can, with correct timing, negate displacement abilities like a Darius hook or a Lee Sin ult. It can also be combo'd with Flash to grab someone unexpectedly, which is a very strong element in League. His R can snipe people from long distances, albeit a risky maneuver, and it can be dangerous to try and kill someone as a tank, seeing as most of the time the enemy will focus on you. Alongside this, the unintentional nerfs he constantly recieves due to him being the only ranged Juggernaut. He isn't allowed to build ANY melee only item, and the ranged only items only benefit adc's and maybe a few junglers. Alongside this issue, it leads to people playing him and burning out due to little build variation and every game feeling the same. He has also received many unintentional Keystone nerfs, making many of the practically useless on him, leaving only the sub-par aftershock, the pokey comet, and the odd glacial augment, all of which are barely viable on him. He is also countered by every ranged toplaner aside from Gnar, has a very rough time against straight tanks, and even though he's a great duelist, he's not anywhere near as good as the other well known duelists, such as Sion, Ornn, and Yorrick.

What nerfs does Urgot need?

Frankly, I don't think he needs any nerfs at the current. He's been getting unintentionally nerfed a lot recently, which has caused Riot to not give him compensation buffs because they never meant to nerf him. If I had to name a nerf to be made in exchange for several buffs, I would say his Echoing Flames damage could be lowered versus Champions. Urgot's Ultimate CD is also something i'd be willing to sacrifice. His ultimate has a such a low CD at mid-late game that its kind aridiculous. This, however, is needed for him at the moment.

What buffs does Urgot need?

Urgot needs to be able to use items more effectively. He has been denied the power of Sterak's Gage, while he already lacked the options most tanks and juggernauts have. He has no self-healing, so he can't make good use of Spirit Visage half of the time, Frozen Mallet gutted his stickiness when it was nerfed, and Maw of Malmortius is a terrible item anyways.

Edit 4: I have clearly not elaborated on what I meant by heavy/light champions. When I said that, I meant specifically for ranged champions. I think there should be Light/heavy on ranged champions, with more of the game revolving around things like that. Champions such as Urgot and Thresh and maybe even Teemo would be considered "heavy ranged" and able to build certain items like item 3053 and not suffer from item nerfs associated with ranged champions such as item 3022 , but couldnt build your typical marksmen only items like item 3085. This would also allow for Heavy ranged champions to take runes that normally wouldnt be effective, like conquerer

ALSO, IF A RIOTER READS THIS, ALL I'M ASKING IS THAT YOU DON'T PUT HIM ON THE BACKBURNER AGAIN. PLEASE, PLEASE TRY TO MAKE SOME SORT OF CHANGE

72 Comments

Häxel12 votes

Most forgotten Rework is Yorick . it is not that Riot is blind. But with Midseason adn many other recent changes like ahri, leblanc and rengar they just don't see Urgot THAT important. maybe he will get ina few patches changes.

TrainerRobo4 votes

You say that, but yorrick dominated toplane after runes reforged and a few updates.

Häxel7 votes

He dominated? maybe for a patch. Well urgot dominated directly shortly after his rework. Yoric nearly got no additional changes and has the lower win and pickrate as Urgot. What i think can be done beside by adding new toplaneitems (which riot also wants to do) is making him similart to Gnar: Gnar can use Meleeitems while he is Megagnar and while he is that Steraks can be proced (and a sa whole can be bought). Megnagnar also is a limited time where he is tankier, slower, does more Damage and has less Range. what would all this be on urgot? Exactly, urgot w. If Urgot would count as a melee during w he could buy steraks and it could only proc durig it, so w being off means he is cleary much more qsuiyhs (cause he ditched a tankitem probably for steraks). While urgot is in w he is slower and has slowresist, so geting moe ms from bc and having a stronger slow on fm shouldn't be that superstrong. Even fi you just can increase Urgots own w slow.

FrostlySpark2 votes

but then if you have hydra poppin' off on every auto during his w, he'd turn into a monster literally.

DeathBurst2 votes

Not "hydra", but "one third of hydra". Damage on-hits are reduced to 1/3, including BotRK. Pretty sure Wit's End too, and Guinsoo's too. Otherwise, optimal Urgot build would just be to stack up on-hit items, 'cause they are not all melee only.

Häxel1 votes

Its not like you can't limitate him to not buy tiamatitems, riot still could and should that with a change like this. I thought that was obvius. If they can limit Casio to not buy boots they also can limit Urgot to not buy Tiamat, Titanic Hydra or Ravenous Hydra. Even if hydra gets reduced to 1/3 the waveclear, the range (urgots 350 rangr plus 325 range titanic hydra i remember correctly) and the damage cause titanic scales with heath anf gues what Urgot builds tons of would be broken for a Juggernaut "low" range designed champ. Bonusrange should only happen in form of rfc if he ever wants to build that what i not realy believe ;)

Wind Whistler1 votes

{quoted}

Most forgotten Rework is Yorick . it is not that Riot is blind. But with Midseason adn many other recent changes like ahri, leblanc and rengar they just don't see Urgot THAT important. maybe he will get ina few patches changes.

The reason why it was forgotten was because it was the worst. Unlike Urgot, this "Yorick" doesn't feel like Yorick at all. When they "reworked" Yorick, they just slapped a bunch of new abilities on him and left it at that. He doesn't resemble the original Gravedigger in any way. Even his "ghouls" work completely differently.

Häxel1 votes

Even his "ghouls" work completely differently.

you think every big rework has spells working in the exact same way? I agree that new yorick feels completly diffrent and probably is one of the most changed reworks. But he was from the begin not a good champion and now is a little bit better for gameplayhealtha s odl yorickw as literaly disabled in rotation week.

There exactly is Urgot like the old Urgot? He is also a total new champion and in a Graves way but far more extrem his role got shifted. He was an artillery champ before who marked with e and spamed q. He builded muramana cause q applied it and had a mana scaling on his w. His ult was a switch and he had an ok attackrange and could be played bot. Or Galio, works completly diffrent too. Yorick at least remains a splitpush champion cause with so much cc even if he could use ult on others he was just a bad teamfight champion. And yes, his w is something complete new and maybe strange but it helps a bit vs kiting, yoricks biggest weakness since ever. And his q is basicly old e and his e is old w plus it helps so his ghouls can also get less kited. and old q vanished for the cage. And his ult is far better, even a perfect splitpush tool.

But he reamains a weak teamfightchampion. And thats why he is forgotten, leauge over the last few seasons is just teamfighting, no splitpushing. Until the meta changes he remaisn forgoten (or until riot changes a few things on him again) but if that happens also procs could definetly play him.

Wind Whistler1 votes

No, I just think that what defines a champion should remain in some way, shape or form. Yorick's ghouls were by far the most important part of his kit, and to have them (they aren't even called ghouls now lol) function completely differently while keeping no other parts of his old kit is why Yorick was essentially removed from the game and replaced with a random dude with the same name. Completely scrapping champion's entire identity and starting over from scratch is not a good thing to do, I don't know why you think that, but it isn't. It's objectively wrong. There are still people who play that champion. 2,000 out of 30 million people is still 2,000 people. 2,000 people who loved playing that character. You can think it was out of malice, or that we liked to see other people suffer, but at the end of the day, in 2018, we've been the ones who had to suffer, thanks to a careless decision by Riot Games that left us without our favorite character. Just getting through the day and fucking being alive in general is harder for us, and unfortunately, this goes for all the other champions, too, Sion, Poppy, and Galio all being prime examples. It's true, not everyone can be happy, but that doesn't give you any reason to not try your best to make as many people as possible happy. Look at the reactions of Galio mains (and even just people who played Galio a lot) to his "rework", then compare it to Urgot mains' reception of the Urgot Rework. Not only do they still play him, but new people who may have not liked him before play him.

As for Yorick, no. He was obviously never meant to be splitpusher. Why do you think his ghouls targeted enemy champions, and not minions? Why do you think his E healed more off of champions than minions? Why do you think he could only ult champions, and nothing else? His kit was rushed, yes, but that doesn't mean they had no idea what they were trying to do with Yorick. What Yorick was for sure was a Juggernaut. He had damage reduction, a great heal, barely any CC, and while he could use his ghouls to damage you from afar, he could do a lot more if he jumped into the fight himself. Even then, he couldn't really summon ghouls that far away from him, so he still had to be relatively close to you in order to do damage. Yorick was just as strong in teamfights as just about any other Juggernaut, and his ult made him even more dangerous in teamfights, because even if you focused him down first so he couldn't do any damage, you'd be forced to focus him down a second time. To put it in perspective, what if, after you killed Darius, he came back with full health and mana for 10 seconds, which is more than enough time for him to kick somebody's ass? New Yorick's W is either completely useless, or unbelievably effective. Never in between. He actually has to work reasonably hard to land it, but even when he does, most of the time champions can just press a single button to dash out of it and make it useless. Even if you land it on an ADC, they just instantly destroy it because they have so much attack speed. If you don't have a lot of attack speed or a dash? Then you're actually fucked. No matter what happens, it always feels unfair for somebody. His Q is not his old E at all. His old E actually scaled into the late game because it actually scaled with AD. His new Q only scales with level, so once you get it to level 5, that's it. Not to mention, with Old Yorick, once you leveled it up all the way and had 40% CDR, the ability would be off cooldown by the time your ghoul died, so you could essentially always have that heal up unless someone killed it early. I'll admit, his new E is kind of similar to his old W, because it deals AOE magic damage and slows, and it's used to help you deal a shit ton of damage by getting your ghouls into melee range. If he actually had a reason to fight alongside his ghouls like he did before, this would be enough to make him feel like Old Yorick, even though his old W was probably actually his most generic ability. Unfortunately, this obviously isn't the case. The Ult seems similar on paper, but once you take a closer look it's a completely different ability.

Onto defending Urgot, no. He wasn't an artillery champ. The fact that you focused mainly on his Q and E and called his ult just "a switch" proves just how little you understand of his gameplay and identity. Urgot had poke, yes, but he also had a lot of CC. He had a shit ton of slows with his W, and an AOE fear with his Ult. On top of this, his passive was damage reduction, and his ult gave him a shit ton of damage reduction as well, BECAUSE he used it to not only screw over the enemy ADC (or whoever else you wanted dead), but to also disrupt the enemy team with your fear and, with the help of his 500 health shield and passive, tank anything that they could throw at you, while also focusing down a squishy with your E's damage reduction (and DOT), your spellblade procs, your Q's, and your Murumana procs from both your Q's and your auto's. He was the only Marksman/Tank hybrid in the game. Not Marksman/Fighter, but Marksman/TANK, which was emphasized by how he built items like Frozen Heart and Iceborn Gauntlet to not only strengthen his shield and give him armor, but at the same time help him fire off Q's constantly, and eventually do more damage with his auto's and q's via murumana.

Don't even get me started on Galio.

Häxel1 votes

Ok first Urgot: Urgot got few changes over the years, the fear was jsut added lately so this "i ult in for mass cc", not realy the case. No artilery champion? Having 1200 Range on marked enemies on q, which was on old days 1500 Range, Caitlyn Headshot Range, is Artillery. The Nerf to 1200 gutted him hard yes but he still remaiend a poke champion. Yes he was also a tank adc but at the same time he was neither one full: less dmg as a full adc and less tanky as most other Juggernauts.

2,000 out of 30 million people is still 2,000 people. 2,000 people who loved playing that character. You can think it was out of malice, or that we liked to see other people suffer, but at the end of the day, in 2018, we've been the ones who had to suffer, thanks to a careless decision by Riot Games that left us without our favorite character.

Now here is the deal: Do you realy think riot just looks up on this numbers and think "probably none of the 2000 will like our new concept but trololololo"? I neither believe that all 2000 hate new Yorick nor are they the only one to think about when to change a champion. You also have to think about the 30 million people that either play with or against yorick from time to time: Do they like to loose a game cause he is nerfed down? Do they like to get destroyed by him cause he is buffed up? Yorick was a champion that wasn't balacable similar to some old ryze concepts, this was the reason he was not in free rotation.

I'm not saying new Yorick is the dream but at least he has meaningful strenghts and weaknesses and yes, there could maybe putted again some small work. But also he is in a decent spot.

in the end it is riot games and their champions are their products. I also kinda liked old Yorick too. Not that you had to run muramana to spam abilitys but just to have diffrent ghouls and a second sort of ghouls instead of new w would have maybe be not that bad. But as most Juggernauts Yoricks weakness was a teamfight. Darius is somethign complete diffrent with his resets, hook and q heal but yorick got like perma cc and even if you used the ult to come back you were just a meat tank. For this reason splitpsuh was better on him cause with ult you could 1v2 and unless the enemy sent 3 champions to you you would have won this duel. And with sending 3 your 4 allies had an advantage. Being a Juggernaut doesn't mean you can't splitpush, looking at Nasus and Udyr cause not every Juggernaut is a darius or Illaoi. But over the years Juggernauts in geneal developed themself to one of the weakest classes cause they can be kited so easily by adcs and they already get support protection. And so riot probably thought, if he don't give him good cc or teamfight spells, lets make him stronger as splitpusher so his ult can even be send to another lane but still boosts his strenght if he they are together.

And if the wall would be another ghoul ability i would be happy. Catching unmobile champs is one thing but it also can be easily destroyed so it is more like a weak aoe cc., espeicaly if ina teamfight the adc just stays there and attacks out of it is no cc and less worth as a soraka e (ok as combo with spells liek soraka e kinda ok).

ZT Xperimentor8 votes

Given how his rework gimped his range, I think they should just make his auto-attacks melee, but extend the range of his passive.

TrainerRobo3 votes

The issue with that, though, is Riot refuses to let champions like Thresh and Rakan build melee items, even with their abysmal range.

ZT Xperimentor4 votes

Thresh isn't that short ranged for auto-attacks (and can be abusive with a couple particular items), nor does rakan appear to require being too close to attack either. Probably should've explained what I meant; make urgot melee so he can at least use some of those items since his auto-attack range is already noticeably shorter than the previous two, have urgot's passive effect reach farther, but still require him to be within melee range as if he's auto-attacking. Think vi's excessive force.

Oleandervine5 votes

Rakan specifically isn't allowed to qualify as melee because that would open up access to a lot of tanky builds for him. He's supposed to be an "assassin" version of a support - a squishy, highly mobile support who delivers CC while getting out in a jiffy. He has and will never be intended to have access to super tanky build things like Frozen Mallet, Titanic Hydra, and Sterak's Gauge.

ValiantKiller3 votes

[{quoted}](name=ZT Xperimentor,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uHPy8lHF,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-05-02T18:08:16.928+0000)

Given how his rework gimped his range, I think they should just make his auto-attacks melee, but extend the range of his passive.

Funny enough i don't think his range is a range, it 350 MonkeyKing q, Illaoi w, etc make them hit from that range.

DeloricVI7 votes

I've been trying Urgot. I like him a lot, because of his ability to harass enemy laners out of farm early, and his ultimate is very satisfying. In fact, I've been playing around with tanky builds and others that hopefully get them to threshold faster than it takes them to kill me. I haven't had much success, but I've noticed that a lot of top laners like Yourick and Trundle make his life a living hell because Yourick deals a metric truck-ton of damage for no reason, and his skill shot is so easy to hit on Urgot's massive character model, and Trundle is so mobile and deals so much damage, you can't get away with harassing him with your Acid Charges.

Personally, I love the changes to Sion - I mained him for a long time right after his rework, and I still love to play Sion support. Really, I find Urgot to be lacking in some way, but I can't place my finger on it. Maybe it's because he kind of doesn't have the damage to be relevant, but also isn't tanky enough to survive through long team fights unless you're super fed.

I really don't know how to fix him. I'll have to play him a bit more before I have any ideas....

ValiantKiller3 votes

{quoted}

I've been trying Urgot. I like him a lot, because of his ability to harass enemy laners out of farm early, and his ultimate is very satisfying. In fact, I've been playing around with tanky builds and others that hopefully get them to threshold faster than it takes them to kill me. I haven't had much success, but I've noticed that a lot of top laners like Yourick and Trundle make his life a living hell because Yourick deals a metric truck-ton of damage for no reason, and his skill shot is so easy to hit on Urgot's massive character model, and Trundle is so mobile and deals so much damage, you can't get away with harassing him with your Acid Charges.

Personally, I love the changes to Sion - I mained him for a long time right after his rework, and I still love to play Sion support. Really, I find Urgot to be lacking in some way, but I can't place my finger on it. Maybe it's because he kind of doesn't have the damage to be relevant, but also isn't tanky enough to survive through long team fights unless you're super fed.

I really don't know how to fix him. I'll have to play him a bit more before I have any ideas....

It can be fixed as the post say, by changing the melee, ranged thing into light and heavy.

DeathBurst1 votes

Not really. Would Fiora or Riven be light then? That'd be stupid.

TrainerRobo1 votes

I think there should be Light/heavy on ranged champions, with more of the game revolving around things like that. Champions such as Thresh and Urgot would be considered "heavy ranged" and able to build item 3053 and not suffer from nerfs associated with ranged champions such as item 3022 , but couldnt build your typical marksmen only items like item 3085

DeathBurst2 votes

So Light/Heavy would be in addition to Range/Melee, and not as a replacement? That wasn't really clear in the OP.

TrainerRobo1 votes

I realize that now, threw in an edit

Jbels7 votes

You know, I actually love the new Urgot, and I would love to play him more. The only problem is that I feel like when I do pick him, I'm screwing over my team since I won't matter if I don't completely shit on my lane. It really sucks that there are no keystones that work especially well with Urgot. Press the Attack just kinda sucks as a rune to begin with, and having it be his only really viable keystone just hurts

TrainerRobo1 votes

I wouldn't say PTA is the only really viable keystone. In fact, I absolutely hate PTA. Even after the nerfs, I'm a hardcore Aftershock boy. I'll occasionally take comet against the likes of Sion and other pokey tanks.

DeathBurst1 votes

I take Glacial Augment and don't buy Frozen Mallet at all. Synergyze with Righteous Glory and/or Randuin.

TrainerRobo1 votes

I've tried glacial augmot, but its not for me. I see why others take it though!

Feed or Famine4 votes

Not sure if I agree with him being able to build melee items. Sterak's is one thing, but the hydras would make his AOE with his shotgun knee's ridiculous, not to mention it would look visually stupid to have them originate at the point of impact of his autos.

Not a top laner nor do I play Urgot, so I can't offer much input besides saying I don't think you're idea should be implemented, if only for sake of continuity. Allowing exceptions would just open the door to "But you did it for Urgoit" arguments by people whining about whatever they want to at the moment.

I do have to say though that I do feel like he is underwhelming at the moment.

Digital Daddy3 votes

I feel like he should cause i went top AD Soraka and won lane . _ . I even got first blood, so yeah he needs something changed if that's the case

Inazuma Seishin3 votes

My issue is his power against melee champs in top, I'm seen a lot of top players lose to Urgot due to his range and tankiness from the start. Some think he needs a nerf, I'm not one of them, but he is unfair when you play against a melee champ such as Poppy or a squishy semi-top laner such as Azir. Right now, I feel he's fine, just a new skin to show he still exists would be nice to you Urgot mains! Star Guardian Urgot for the win! [poppy-wink]

TrainerRobo5 votes

While I disagree with you somewhat, you're right. He's meant to be a counter to most melee toplaners. That's not to say however, all melee top laners are screwed. Urgot loses to straight tanks in the early game unless your jungler actively camps top-lane. Some of those champions include Malphite, Maokai (especially moakia, the most boring toplaner to play against), Cho,Gath, Sion, and Ornn. In a matchup juggernaut Versus juggernaut, however, Urgot does beat a lot of them, but not all. Urgot, however, loses to almost every ranged toplaner. Heimerdinger, Teemo, Jayce (even though he's somewhat hybrid) to name a few.

ValiantKiller4 votes

{quoted}

While I disagree with you somewhat, you're right. He's meant to be a counter to most melee toplaners. That's not to say however, all melee top laners are screwed. Urgot loses to straight tanks in the early game unless your jungler actively camps top-lane. Some of those champions include Malphite, Maokai (especially moakia, the most boring toplaner to play against), Cho,Gath, Sion, and Ornn. In a matchup juggernaut Versus juggernaut, however, Urgot does beat a lot of them, but not all. Urgot, however, loses to almost every ranged toplaner. Heimerdinger, Teemo, Jayce (even though he's somewhat hybrid) to name a few.

Sadly daruis and garen could give urgot hell if played right, special daruis + the new keystone. What made things worst for urgot that he not able to access that pure true damage that was added to make bruiser able to fight tankers in more efficient way while on other hand before the new keystone riot just went up to buff daruis up because he was doing poorly against tankers yet they didn't nerf that buff off after the new keystone while urgot still dead thing that get no buffs and not able to use that keystone.

TrainerRobo2 votes

I 100% agree with you. While Garen usually isn't too much trouble, Darius completely dominates him 9 times out of 10.

ValiantKiller2 votes

{quoted}

I 100% agree with you. While Garen usually isn't too much trouble, Darius completely dominates him 9 times out of 10.

And that after they give him buff to make him stronger cause he lost the favor of battle while urgot doesn't get anything for that and remain in the backyard at the bottom of the 30 top laners.

the weeaboo2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Inazuma Seishin,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uHPy8lHF,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-05-02T18:20:24.982+0000)

My issue is his power against melee champs in top, I'm seen a lot of top players lose to Urgot due to his range and tankiness from the start. Some think he needs a nerf, I'm not one of them, but he is unfair when you play against a melee champ such as Poppy or a squishy semi-top laner such as Azir. Right now, I feel he's fine, just a new skin to show he still exists would be nice to you Urgot mains! Star Guardian Urgot for the win! [poppy-wink]

I was sorta considering your comment until I read Azir toplane lol.

Inazuma Seishin1 votes

Azir is hard top lane, but with work you can put any champ in any lane. I've done Azir as top and gotten S before, same with Lulu, it's just excessively hard and creates a great, fun challenge.

Festive Bear3 votes

He's in a weird spot, he does okay against most other laners, but ultimately falls off because of those items. The one problem I see with him, is that he can kite, much like any other ranged champion can, but he also gets in up close, and excels at it. Making melee items very strong on him, and he gets to stay back and watch the fun. I love that black market idea, just like Ornn but more specialized?? It would be amazing, maybe adjust some of the melee items just so he can use them. Like titanic hydra, make it so it only activates when his shotguns go off. Or that an AoE effect around him happens whenever he auto attacks (similar to that of ravenous).

DragonShea3 votes

The problem that Riot has is that it has a hardon/bias towards X champions. It's all about certain champs being viable while those that should shine are left in the gutter.

FFS Mordekaiser is in dire need of a rework but riot has stuck up their own ass.

Kirov2 votes

I'm ok with where Urgot is from an itemization/damage standpoint but can we do something about his abysmal cast times? Even if you have to change the numbers so hes not broken, having to guess where they will be two seconds after you've cast the ability feels awful. Heaven forbid you're against a hyper mobile champion like irelia/riven/yasuo you basically only have one ability at that point.... which wont hit them either unless you landed Q or E. I've gotten used to it to a degree but with most reworks and changes riot focuses on making a champion feel more smooth and less clunky (irelia for example) but with Urgot it was the opposite. I mean I at least I feel pretty bad ass when I DO land a good E or Ult.... but when you miss by a mile because you guessed wrong you look completely retarded.

abdul5692 votes

I think a simple new passive that allows the use of certain items (so he can use stuff like sterak but not tiamat) or maybe 'ranged penalties are 50-100% less potent'. It would open him up a bit in terms of build path since he's in the weird state of being a ranged melee juggernaut.

remakoro2 votes

It would be great if he could utilize properly items with on hit effects. Would allow him to battle tanks better with item 1419 or item 3153 for example. But every single one of those items has AS and if he has at least one AS item he actually loses DPS after using his W... And those items dont give any meaningful stats for him... Making it completely wasted on him.

Entheos Geon1 votes

He would be broken and permabanned if his W applied the full power of on-hit effects..

remakoro2 votes

I dont mean full on hit effects. Its just the way his W works. It cuts dmg a lot. If you have even a bit of attack speed you gonna be dealing more dmg by simply using your AA. If dmg penalty were reduced with bonus AS then it wont hurt him so much to build items with on-hit effects. Which i think you will agree - could be really interesting.

TrainerRobo1 votes

I'm pretty sure riot was going to do that at one point, but cut it.

remakoro1 votes

I guess its cuz he is juggernaut and must build juggernauts stuff. Even though he barred from half of it :D

kasfas2 votes

It is an interesting idea to have champions item restrictions base around something other than ranged/melee, but any other distinction alienates more champions than it includes.

If we take for instance hitbox size to determine item purchases, adcs won't be able to buy steraks, and urgot will (having what I believe is the biggest base hitbox in the game), but where does that leave bruisers like vi and wukong, and skirmishes like to and Fiora? And do champions just magically stop being able to get light items if they consume elixir of Iron or get lulu ulted?

And what if instead we decide to call them light-medium-heavy, based upon approximate size and not direct hitbox size? We could put things like maw in the all section and steraks in medium-heavy for example thus preventing adcs (which we will classify as light) from buying steraks, but then we run into complexity problems. Why is it that this champion is light, and how do we know? At least with auto-attacks there's a soft barrier between melee and range only broken by Aatrox ult, but it's an exception not a rule in this case. In this case we would likely have to explain the weight classings through hitbox size anyway, but once again there are many more ways to alter hotbox size than there are autoattack range for all champions.

So the best bet, as far as I can tell, is to apply arbitrary restrictions on some items for champions based upon an additionally arbitrary weighting class unaffected by any stat currently in the game. It cannot be listed or displayed and would likely need explanation as a core function of the game rather than an exception of it.

If this worked, which would be a massive gamesweeping change, I could see a lot of items better fitting and many melee champions better off as a result, allowing things like frozen mallet to be placed in the heavy-only section allows it to receive some massive buffs, and placing the likes of phantom dancer in light only allows other items to be created or buffed up for the heavier types.

But the biggest problem of all is build diversity. Disallowing champions from building certain items forcefully and not by dictates of meta stifle innovation and creativity among players effectively killing off a portion of the player base which riot has been actively trying to avoid. Thus this mechanic would likely be used infrequently enough to not be considered a main mechanic of the game, invalidating a prerequisite for implementation.

Of course one might say each item could offer different stats based upon weight class, or have different passives much like frozen mallet has now. The problems with those are: A- why not just create a new item for the class rather than add all these restrictive stats. B- why can't I have as much effect as the other guy if I'm sacrificing other items to build this.

Successfully addressing these problems could result in the replacement of the range restriction with the weight class restriction, but it is still a very complex issue which would take at least another year to completely solve.

Good luck with that.

no to toxic1 votes

Just go crit to meme on the enemy.

TrainerRobo1 votes

Nice meme. That works just as well as building AP on Warwick. Good on paper, terrible in practice unless its maybe ARAM or URF [slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

Sad Tyrant2 votes

I miss old Warwick for that reason, even though the current one is excellent.

If AP WW is to work again, it's gonna need Spell Vamp and an AP ratio on the ult

Zedex1 votes

But how is ADC itemization affecting a ranged Juggernaut?

TrainerRobo3 votes

Good question. Sterak's gage was made melee only, but is a huge thing for juggernauts, meaning he cant use it. Frozen mallet, one of his old core items, nerfed for ranged users by 20%. Conquerer, nerfed for ranged users. Those are just a few examples, and they're onlylimited on ranged because adc's and marksmen would abuse those ietems, while urgot isnt a marksman at all, therefore he is losing out on beefier damage items and runes.

Wind Whistler1 votes

You didn't play Urgot before his rework? You missed out on a lot more than you think you did. He's still fun to play now, but I really wish he was strong like the one was. Maybe over time they'll slowly buff him back to being strong, like he used to be.

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