Would changing Malzahar's voidlings AD scaling to a (lower) AP ratio be better or worse?

7ha7guy777·Oct 12, 2014·2 votes·1,311 views

Currently, voidlings gain attack damage and have armor penetration equal to Malzahar's. Would making the scaling of the voidlings AP based (at a lower ratio than 1:1 for obvious reasons) be a good idea (without changed the rest of his kit)? Unfortunately, this would remove the option to have AD malzahar, but it would make the voidlings have more of an impact when playing AP malzahar. Please post your opinions and possible suggestions because i'm unranked so my knowledge of gameplay and balance obviously means very little.

18 Comments

jjookkeerrOct 12, 20142 votes

plz leave malzahar alone, increasing voidling damag ewith ap in exchange of losing ap on his spells is bad, voidlinds are unreliable source of damage

7ha7guy777Oct 12, 20141 votes

i meant the voidlings would have a ap ratio that is lower than the current ad ratio but the rest of his kit would stay the same. However, i see your point.

VictorTheIIOct 12, 20141 votes

Take what I say with a grain of salt since I don’t own Malzy yet (he is on my to buy list though) but your change, although a straight buff…seems kind of random. I mean it’s a damage buff to one of the highest damage dealing mages in the game…on top of that it’s a damage buff to one of the few, if not the only, tank melting mage (no, a fed Kat that get’s 4 resets doesn’t count). I mean…why?

7ha7guy777Oct 12, 20141 votes

it seems weird that his passive would scale off of a stat he wouldn't normally get much of unless you intentionally build him for AD which would make his abilities less effective considering how high the scaling is on his Q, E, and R. Granted, this opens up a surprisingly effective off-build that actually works thanks to the high base damages and % damage of his abilities. I don't know how it would be balanced, but my idea behind it was to change it to a realistic ap ratio but i realized that changing it to an ap ratio 1) removes ad malz from the game and 2) would be a buff no matter what unless they lower the per-level scaling on the damage which would be pretty much sion-ing the voidlings. i'm not really sure what i was thinking when i posted this. i guess i should keep thought like this in my head.

VictorTheIIOct 12, 20141 votes

No need to get so defensive. Most people that play Malzy notice the sheer…disparity…yeah let’s call it that…between his passive and the rest of his kit, to the point ad Malz is nothing short of an unintended accident gone horribly right. I mean, the silence on the q is mind numbingly long, w is percentage based, e causes the bugs to focus fire champs and clear vawes with massive damage since riot made them scale with Malzahars bonus ad because they were sure no one would buy ad items on him, which just goes to show Riot does not know us very well.

But yeah I wouldn’t be completely opposed to replacing Malzys passive with a new one and make a champion 100% dedicated to his bug summoning passive, but after Azir I’m not sure I trust Riot current staff with minion leading champions.

Skia AsteriOct 12, 20141 votes

No, the nerf to AD Malz would be unacceptable. (Yes AD Malz is a a thing and it works)

ceaselessphantomOct 12, 20141 votes

Normally they are kept seperate because ap and ad play styles are very different. But after thinking about it the ad style is about the same play style as ap except you have to consider if the voidlings will reach the target.

The only major difference aside from being physical damage is while ap Malzahar does massive percentage damage ad Malzahar does massive flat damage. But even then since the voidlings have to walk to the target they will mostly be hitting the tank so his style remains the same. The only thing that would really make his style different is if the voidling targeting was not locked to a short range e.

Regardless while he feels odd spamming spells outside of combat he is our only summoner. Maybe they could rework the current concept of ad Malzahar into a new champion? (Directing melee minions that have huge damage.) They could remove the current power of his ult in that champion in exchange for being able to redirect the minions more easily.

Edit There is also that ap Malzahar has about the best wave clear in the game separating him from ad. But wave clear is so common now who even cares that much?

Blade of JusticOct 12, 20141 votes

It would be a nerf to Malzahar due to the fact that Malzahar's enemies would generally be trying to build MR to counter him.

The mix of AP from his skills and AD from his minions make it a nightmare to itemize against him.

If everything was AP, he would do less damage.

7ha7guy777Oct 12, 20141 votes

i didn't say that the voidlings would do magic damage, just that they'd scale off of ad. however, ad scaling off of ad makes sense so if for some reason the scaling was changed, the damage type could be too for that reason. Since the voidling armor pen scales off of malzahar's armor pen, if for some reason it was changed to magic damage, the voidlings' magic pen would probably scale off of his magic pen

Blade of JusticOct 12, 20141 votes

i didn't say that the voidlings would do magic damage, just that they'd scale off of ad. however, ad scaling off of ad makes sense so if for some reason the scaling was changed, the damage type could be too for that reason. Since the voidling armor pen scales off of malzahar's armor pen, if for some reason it was changed to magic damage, the voidlings' magic pen would probably scale off of his magic pen

If that's the case, then Malzahar would have to be nerfed in an area because he's actually quite balanced right now.

7ha7guy777Oct 12, 20141 votes

i guess. i can't see any way to implement the change without it either nerfing or buffing him. if it doesn't nerf or buff him, there'd be no point in the change unless it's a QoL change which is still a minor buff. I certainly don't want a malz nerf and believe he is in a pretty good place.

MarthianOct 13, 20141 votes

Honestly, I think he will see a rework before his passive gets changes.

Mediocre JoeOct 13, 20141 votes

I think they should give malzahars voidlings the elise W treatment and say when they get hit by the silence or something the voidlings jump to the enemy, they are strong I just wish they could be more guaranteed dmg

CarniverousNov 10, 20141 votes

16/10/6 29/6/6 17/8/4 AD malz games, just today.

I see your point. It would be intresting, it would give his passive something to do after lvls 1-6 I've played AP, and AD. Giving the voidlings an AP ratio would make a Hybrid Malz a thing. Because Malz gets a lot of benefits from AP items. But it would be too much. Even a .01 ratio would cause them to be amazing. I know I know, only .01? you get 800~ 600~ AP and you only deal 60 extra damage on them. But now X that by 3. you now have an extra 180 dmg on your full AP combo. The voidlings are now dealing more damage than your W, or your E per tick. Over the 4 seconds that the E goes off, the voidlings could deal more damage. And the additional attack speed.... Plus a base AD, attack speed, and possibly it going up after the 7sec mark, it would be a lot to his already powerful combo.

If he had no AD ratios, I'd support this all the way. but my high score of 36/4/17 says AD MALZ FOR LIFE

7ha7guy777Nov 10, 20141 votes

i've been playing quite a bit of AD malz lately and i almost prefer it to ap. the incentive to build cdr allows you to use your abilities more often which results in 2-3 voidlings instead of 1-2. the base damages are high enough that he really doesn't need the ap against anything but tanks. i like starting with doran's ring for the mana regen and then building manamune starting with tear to possibly trick the enemy into building magic resist.

i saw an URF video where the streamer built AS because they thought voidlings scaled off of AS as well as Ad. i could have sworn that their AS i set at 1.0 and 1.5 (after they ramp up), do they actually scale off of attack speed?

CarniverousNov 11, 20141 votes

NO, they do not build off of AS, only AD. It's not even that they build off armr pen, but when you have Armor, or even magic pen, andy magic or physical damage you do benefits from the penetration.

AD Malz has the highest damage potential for DPS. ANd then even burst once you have 3 out. The AS dose ramp up at 14 seconds.

I also used to try and not build AD items at the start. Focusing on item 3070 first. But I soon realized two things.

1: AD Malz has the best dueling. (Debatable. ) 2: He has 0 mana problems early on. He is mana hungry. But his E allows him to make up that spell. If it bounces he gets mana back per bounce. Place your E after 4ish seconds of minions bashing their heads in to each other, put E on, and AA it.

Because of these two factors, I have not lost a first blood to Riven of all creatures. So I take a Long Sword and rush the Brutalizer. Then tear. People already build MR, like a moron, or build their little AD boots. The passive on Ninja Tabi dose not apply to voidlings. Only champion basic attacks.
Take Exhaust and Flash. People claim Exhaust sucks. But it's the best dueling spell.

7ha7guy777Nov 11, 20141 votes

exhaust also allows the voidlings to catch up faster further increasing their damage. i've been building lucidity boots on him because more cdr = more voidlings = more damage. would other boots be better or was i right in thinking lucidity would be best on AD malz? i've never built AS on him. it's almost exclusively damage and armor pen/cdr.

CarniverousNov 12, 20141 votes

It really depends. If later in your build you have more CDR planned, or already have 10% in your runes, and what not. If they have a ADC that pwn's nub'lits day in and day out fed like Cho'Gath or something. You're gonan want those Ninja Tabi. But typically you won't need it.

Don't assume your team knows you're going to deal tons of damage. ANd will play a game of "Protect the Kog'Maw." That would work, if they would protect you. Malz needs to be one of two things. Have huge kiting, or be a Bruiser. A bit of both works best for me.

My latest games have been this. item 3042 item 3071 item 3035 item 3158 item 3022 Or item 3083 Then item 3026 With the 5% CDR in Offence you will have 30%. This is not enough. But I was being fed Blue over and over by my jungler who saw how great I was doing. Fights lasted a long time, so I wanted Warmogs. I normally go Frozen Malet so I can chase. And if you know you're going to drop, save that E, because it lasts 4 seconds. ANd so dose your Angels.

I almost got shut down by a Zed, but my Voidling kept beating on him for 4 whole seconds while I was getting back up. I've also played a Hybrid Malz, just to have less mana problems, and to hourglass + Angels.