Boards›Gameplay

Please give Talon some early game!

Tranoze··7 votes·1,292 views

Since slience removed, now his E is useless early game (when ever he jump in, not only enemy champion attack him, but also minions auto attack, and talon is not a tank champ who can take these damage at the same time), so now it is impossibe for him to kill someone early game any more. And it hard to farm with him too (go top, enemy too strong, cannot even farm, go mid, when ever use Q to farm - going to poke range, when eve use W to farm, no mana left, and the damage of W early game is not high enough), that make talon have hardest early game ever (cannot kill, cannot farm)

So I'm asking you Riot to give him some early game! This is my idea:

E:Cutthroat: New passive: Whenever he kill a target amplified by Cutthroat, he gains stealth for 1 second. Kill a target slowed by Cutthroat will refresh cooldown of Cutthroat and Noxian Diplomacy(his Q). New manacost: 20 at all rank.

How does this help him? this actually help him so much in farming, now he can go in, cs a minion, and go out like nothing ever happened, and this make talon's strategy early game look like late game, but it not for killing, it just for farming. And this make he can escape ganking by some pro way, of course you cannot use his Q and E farming save all the time, this actually cost so much mana, and he doesn't recover mana as irellia.

12 Comments

The Red Warden3 votes

But then he may threaten adc's again, and everyone knows Riot would never let marksmen have to actually worry about being killed

Just look at the fact that every assassin and bruiser (that has been able to kill the precious adc's) has either been nerfed(talon) or completely gutted(Olaf)

Tranoze2 votes

no, this new passive only work when he can actually kill someone, not even close to be a threaten to ADC. And of course he can kill ADC in one combo just like zed, but the diffrent is zed and other assasin can get out easily, but not for talon (if he use R for damage, he cannot get out).

avilus2 votes

A similar post was made roughly 24 hours ago about the same issue. Here was my input...

"I believe giving Talon's E the ability to cast upon allies would be worthy equilibrium to his recent nerf.

Currently Talon's E is an extremely high-risk high-reward spell - players now have potential to punish Talon severely for engaging because of the silence removal.

Talon has a distinct lack of mobility that other assassins possess, such as Akali's Twilight Shroud and Zed's Living Shadow. While Talon can certainly engage extremely well, he has a hard time disengaging from fights without the use of his ultimate. The ability to cast Cutthroat upon allies would work similarly to Jax's Leap Strike, giving Talon an escape tool he so dearly needs to make up for his other inherent weaknesses in comparison to other assassins, such as mana reliance.

Balancing Cutthroat to act as a utility-based omnitool rather than a strictly offensive maneuver would certainly open up and revitalize Talon's gameplay.

In culmination Talon would still retain his high-risk high-reward Cutthroat, but will also be able to escape certain unfavorable situations when used defensively, such as during tactical retreats or post-assassination escapes. His escape ability would still be somewhat limited, though - the defensive capabilities of the ability relies upon the presence of allies. Alas, that is the point of this idea - the point is not to make Talon the ultimate escape artist, but rather give him a necessary boost to his combat mobility to accentuate his unique champion characteristics, being...

A powerful but fragile melee character with specialized tools to be both deadly and evasive...

Talon is most definitely deadly, but we must face the facts of his recent changes - his only reliable evasion mechanic has been his ultimate, and with the removal of his silence he simply has no power to escape his foes post-attack without blowing his ultimate all over the place. Shadow Assault is certainly coined as Talon's deadliest advance or saving grace, but alas, Talon is now indubitably ultimate-reliant. He must be optimized to compete."

Tranoze3 votes

actually stealth is better for talon than blinkable to ally, it make his playstyle more like an assasin, and focus his E reward (you can not be an assasin if you go in, no one die, you go out.)

Constantine223 votes

stealth sucks in League. mobility is better. compare these assasins escape tools : Talon (mobile stealth for 2.5 seconds), (E to minions ) Fizz (short jump - invulnerable) , ( using Q behind the minions to dash through them ) Zed (W shadow), (R shadow ) akali (immobile Stealth for 8 seconds ), (R to minions ) Khazix (1 second stealth 2 times), (reset W) Kassadin (R blink) Leblank (W, R )

so as you can see Talon and akali have the worst ascape tools. Stealth! you know why stealth sucks? cause at gold division and above EVERYONE in the game will get red lenses or pink wards. so with that lets remove stealth from the escape tools of the before mentioned champs : Talon (E to minions ) Fizz (short jump - invulnerable) , ( using Q behind the minions to dash through them ) Zed (W shadow), (R shadow ) akali (R to minions ) Khazix (reset W) Kassadin (R blink) Leblank (W, R ) ... yeah. stealth is better than blinkable ally? No. mobility always beats stealth. Always. shaco has freaking both xD

Tranoze1 votes

I know blinkable to ally is good, but it only good when you have a passive reset that skill after kill(you have to use that skill to enemy first, right?) but give talon a reset skill after kill is just make him become the second katarina. And why I'm talking that stealth is better for talon? Talon is an AD assasin, that mean after using all his skill, his auto attack still deal high damage enough, diffrent from kata(if kata have no skill left, she is useless). What about zed? is an AD assasin too, he can R to reblink out a combat, but he still have choice to reblink to W he make when he ult to stay in the combat again. And yi, fiora! And Akali too, and you know why Akali have stealth right? She is diffrent from the other Ap assasin that her auto attack deal extra damage, so she need stealth to choose the right position to focus the next target. Assasin have damage on auto attack doesn't need to full escape like assasin cannot auto attack. And one more extra thing is when you stealth, enemy have less focus on you in teamfight, even you deal much or not much damage.(if a teamfight happen on Akali's W, you'll see how many people focus on Akali.)

Sire Hippington3 votes

It'S true that E too allys doesn't help in fights considering it'S his only engage tool and on a fairly high cd without reset. However, Stealth and AAs have not much to do one with another. Actually, stealth works against AAs, as AAs want constant attacking for maximum use, while stealth wants u not to attack. And for ur examples, YI and Fiora both have only dashes and no stealth. And u forgot about Fizz, Kassa and Diana. All use AAs and utilize steps/dashes and no stealth...

While i think stealth is thematically more fitting, it simply is a lackluster mechanic unless vision gets a bit reworked. Just as Constantine22 said, in higher elos people more frequently get pinks and red trinkets, or counterpick with lee, karma or lulu. If u don't snowball with a infight-stealth champ, u will have problems later on as there will always be some detection. Especially Akalie suffers here alot, as her stealth is limited to an area so it's easy to know when and where to use pink/lense.

Tranoze1 votes

actually fizz is some kind of stealth(the range of his W is not so high to be consider as blink). Diana have blink, but not to ally, my point is AAs assasin have to stay stick with the team fight, not just use all skill and run. The stealth is couter_able with pink, yes, that the point I mean, we don't want talon un_counter_able. And stealth is not for AAs assasin to hide, but it for them get out the focus of enemy and choose the right position to go to the next target.

Azlagor2 votes

the problem is not that u can counter stealth, the problm is that every counter to stealth is a hard-counter, removing stealth completly. I totally agree that u need some stickiness, but assasin need a more or less reliable way out again. There is a reason why Fizz, Ahrie, Zed and Kah are more popular and effective than talon or akaly overall(atleast in higher elos).

Talon needs a bit more work done to become a healthy and viable pick though.

Constantine223 votes

Fizz is some kind of stealth? Are you kidding me? you cant use pink ward to make him targetable. you keep denying all you want but we all know its better to blink behind a wall than stealth and walk towards a predictable path. and its not about going in and out only. its about when you DONT go in to have a reliable escape tool. and stealth isnt reliable. blinks that dont require a target(like zed's W) and dashes that dont require a target(like fizz W) are reliable. why dont they just make Talon's E like ezreals E for example. just clicking the ground and blinking. cause right now Talon has no tools to make plays like a zed. zed is very unpredictable. you dont know what he is gonna do with his shadows since he can put them anywhere. but Talon has only one place to go. Right on the back of his enemy. which is not ideal when he gets camped and the junglers know that so they take advantage of it. So by default Talon was always worse than Zed even WITH the silence. and instead of making him more safe they remove silence and make him even MORE risky. wtf Riot

Sire Hippington2 votes

while that change will help him in clashes and as cleanup, i doesn't realy help him early. U already complained that W costs to much to farm with, and now we should spend mana on every single cs? It also massivly increases his killpresure in lane, especially together with a jungler as he could E to an minion and kill it, thus get the reset and e again out of stealth, so about twice the engage range. it helps him to be a even better counter to squishys that have no instand selfpeel(cc or escape), but u hardly see those champions picked anyway and Zed would probably still be superior here.

PainWoLove2 votes

With the removal of his silence lets face it talons kit is dated...

More from Gameplay

3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay764 comments
7,167
votes
3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay156 comments
3,510
votes
UPVOTE FOR URF
Gameplay606 comments
2,440
votes
Yes plz.
Gameplay456 comments
1,721
votes
3 Refunds per season, up vote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay114 comments
1,716
votes
When is ANYONE at riot going to address the awful new player experience?
Gameplay634 comments
1,383
votes

More by Tranoze

Stop decrease AP item cost and total AP.
Gameplay66 comments
91
votes
Show an icon if a player is Autofilled/Secondary roled.
Gameplay29 comments
91
votes
Change smite animation on Ivern.
Concepts & Creations2 comments
10
votes
Oriana is not strong, it just because Rito nerfed almost all mid laners.
Gameplay4 comments
7
votes
Can we decrease power of super minions in early game?
Gameplay9 comments
7
votes
Make Iceborn gaunlet and thornmail scale with magicresist too.
Gameplay4 comments
7
votes