Riot please reply, do you guys EVER play your own game? Oh have you guys ever played Shaco?

Infinity233·Oct 16, 2019·3 votes·1,020 views

I am a 5-year league player and I've been playing Shaco for... I don't know how many games, but I do have 400k on him. Anyway, nerfing the box duration is literally THE worst nerf shaco can ever get, I mean we would like the aoe to be removed instead, we won't care; you can even take away Shaco's passive, won't matter; but if you nerf the box duration you are going to force many Shaco players to uninstall because the entire gaming technique of Shaco is going to be changed. Why is that? That's not even a question because if you play several games of him with that nerfed box and you will find out.

17 Comments

Infinity233Oct 16, 20192 votes

Nerfing box duration of Shaco isn't just reducing SOME number, it will be a change to all aspect of Shaco's gameplay, from level 1 to 18. This action is equivalent to removing Yasuo's shield or Aatrox's E, or changing Caitlyn and Ashe to melee. I get it, Shaco isn't balanced after the rework, blah blah blah, while that's true, I sincerely ask you to please reconsider other options.

Jimmy RustlesOct 16, 20192 votes

Yea remember how shaco is "only played by one tricks" when he was in the top 10 playrates for jungles in almost every elo before this update as well, along with a good winrate

Yea, those one tricks

It's good he's getting a meaningful nerf finally, his traps arent just use on CD

Infinity233Oct 16, 20192 votes

[{quoted}](name=Jimmy Rustles,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=tymXjyGn,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-10-16T21:18:33.720+0000)

Yea remember how shaco is "only played by one tricks" when he was in the top 10 playrates for jungles in almost every elo before this update as well, along with a good winrate

Yea, those one tricks

It's good he's getting a meaningful nerf finally, his traps arent just use on CD

That is fking ridiculous, shaco main is just like any other mains, these players get high win rate, too. And these other champions has a meaningful winrate because BAD PLAYERS EXIST IN THEIR WORLD, WHILE THEY DON'T IN SHACO'S WORLD.

Jimmy RustlesOct 16, 20191 votes

{quoted}

That is fking ridiculous, shaco main is just like any other mains, these players get high win rate, too. And these other champions has a meaningful winrate because BAD PLAYERS EXIST IN THEIR WORLD, WHILE THEY DON'T IN SHACO'S WORLD.

So according to you, a champion in the top 10 playrates means that only one tricks are playing them

Out of roughly 35-40 champions played in the jungle, the other 25-30 are 0 players playing them because a top 10 playrate champion is only played by one tricks so anyone below that has 0 players at all

Infinity233Oct 16, 20192 votes

[{quoted}](name=Jimmy Rustles,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=tymXjyGn,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-10-16T21:18:33.720+0000)

Yea remember how shaco is "only played by one tricks" when he was in the top 10 playrates for jungles in almost every elo before this update as well, along with a good winrate

Yea, those one tricks

It's good he's getting a meaningful nerf finally, his traps arent just use on CD

If you look at the top riven players' winrate, it's also hella high in all elos, but Riven's winrate is still low because tons of other bad players drop the winrate. Shaco is so weak that he doesn't have new or players left, that's why he has a high win rate. Again, PLAY THE GAME AND YOU WILL FIND OUT!

JamareeOct 16, 20191 votes

Doesn’t Shaco have one of the highest win rates in the game right now?

Infinity233Oct 16, 20192 votes

{quoted}

Doesn’t Shaco have one of the highest win rates in the game right now?

Sure, but Shaco always did regardless its power because NOBODY bothers to play him! We Shaco mains are the only ones! And we've practiced for years!

Infinity233Oct 16, 20192 votes

{quoted}

Doesn’t Shaco have one of the highest win rates in the game right now?

I don't, we don't care about nerfs on numbers. Remove box aoe, reduce e damage, q duration, whatever, we don't care because it's a change in number, and it doesn't make a difference in terms of how to play him. However, box duration isn't a number, it's a mechanic that requires detailed analysis before ANY changes!

Infinity233Oct 16, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Doesn’t Shaco have one of the highest win rates in the game right now?

It's like you've been practicing Riven's QA or Yasuo's eq flash for years, and then they get removed. You can't cast q when you are using e, yasuo player, and you can't auto after you used q, riven main. Do you understand?

Brutalitops01Oct 16, 20191 votes

They nerfed the box duration because they didn't want to remove the AoE, but it was absolutely busted that he could reliably get level 3 and gank bot lane while the bot lane was still level 1. I think they should have just nerfed the time that the box is active, or possibly lowered the AoE damage even more, or lowered the box's armor. Something to hit the box that didn't screw with his clear too hard. But a change was needed. It's likely that they made this just as a quick "Holy shit this needs to be fixed right now or Shaco's gonna be pick or ban for this entire patch" and are working on a longer term solution to come out in the next patch or 2.

Infinity233Oct 16, 20192 votes

{quoted}

They nerfed the box duration because they didn't want to remove the AoE, but it was absolutely busted that he could reliably get level 3 and gank bot lane while the bot lane was still level 1. I think they should have just nerfed the time that the box is active, or possibly lowered the AoE damage even more, or lowered the box's armor. Something to hit the box that didn't screw with his clear too hard. But a change was needed. It's likely that they made this just as a quick "Holy shit this needs to be fixed right now or Shaco's gonna be pick or ban for this entire patch" and are working on a longer term solution to come out in the next patch or 2.

You are exaggerating a hell lot, shaco cannot reliably get 3 before bottom lane reaches level 2. Also, Shaco has the lowest damage in all assassins. At last, I've never said there shouldn't be changes in Shaco, there are many solutions to it, but nerfing box duration is just not a reasonable one.

Brutalitops01Oct 16, 20191 votes

I have actually seen Shaco gank bot level 3 while both sides laners were still level 1 since making the box AoE. No exaggeration. I have seen it happen.

I know it's just a guess and I don't really know what was going through Riot's head when they made these nerfs, but my best guess is that it was a temporary solution to the problem and a more permanent solution, such as nerfing the box's AoE damage, armor, duration after triggering, or something to that effect will be coming in the next couple of patches to get him into a more balanced state for the long term. Denying him that level 3 gank while the bot laners are still level 1, but still allowing him to survive and thrive in the game and particularly in the early lane phase.

ArtumisPrimeOct 22, 20191 votes

It's definitely possible. 4 boxes on raptors (which kill the raptors by themselves), leash at red, kill krugs. You can finish all 3 of these camps as the second wave hits the middle of a side lane, about 2 mins.

Here's a video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IL50u2qcqt4

Infinity233Oct 16, 20192 votes

{quoted}

They nerfed the box duration because they didn't want to remove the AoE, but it was absolutely busted that he could reliably get level 3 and gank bot lane while the bot lane was still level 1. I think they should have just nerfed the time that the box is active, or possibly lowered the AoE damage even more, or lowered the box's armor. Something to hit the box that didn't screw with his clear too hard. But a change was needed. It's likely that they made this just as a quick "Holy shit this needs to be fixed right now or Shaco's gonna be pick or ban for this entire patch" and are working on a longer term solution to come out in the next patch or 2.

I agree with you for other things you said though.

ParoeOct 16, 20191 votes

Remember pre rework when AP shaco wasnt "teemo but less" and was more "i throw shivs that pepper squishy targets down with my 245 base damage and 0.9AP ratio?" You dont? Of course you dont. That was his original pre-rework form.

What shaco needs at this point is ENTIRELY for his AP playstyle to return to an E focus instead of a W focus, because his W is and always has been fairly toxic in terms of gameplay and frustration.

Infinity233Oct 16, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Remember pre rework when AP shaco wasnt "teemo but less" and was more "i throw shivs that pepper squishy targets down with my 245 base damage and 0.9AP ratio?" You dont? Of course you dont. That was his original pre-rework form.

What shaco needs at this point is ENTIRELY for his AP playstyle to return to an E focus instead of a W focus, because his W is and always has been fairly toxic in terms of gameplay and frustration.

The AP shaco nerf is merely a bi-product of the jungle Shaco nerf this time. The w duration nerf is targeted on jungle Shaco

ArtumisPrimeOct 22, 20191 votes

I'm fairly certain, like almost 100% sure, that it was a 1.0 AP ratio.