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Cinderhulk doesn't need to be nerfed.

LukaLuna·4/19/2015, 4:44:17 AM·8 votes·1,737 views

Big health, big problems Before you get your knackers in a twist, I don't mean its balanced I think its stronger than every other enchant. But consider this, why is it that counterplay is a huge component of champions, but not item builds? Why not make an item strong, just not towards a person who builds something strong against that in reaction or foresight to the situation?What I'm talking about is something that Meddler may have seen, %Bonus health damage.

One of cinderhulks big factors is the health it can give for an incredibly low cost, 25% bonus health gives you more health based on other health items you buy, essentially this is probably why cinderhulk is overbearing in the lategame; these tanks are just so beefy that combined with armor and MR you can't really dent them efficiently enough for it to have many drawbacks besides them not dealing the most damage, and a %Bonus health damage item would actually fit in to be able to give certain champions access to the ability to take out these monstrous tanks without nerfing cinderhulk itself or even righteous glory for that matter.

Finding a candidate Blue > Green Now first lets talk as if we were giving this titan crashing opportunity to an AD champion; what item can we say has practically no use in competitive play nor solo queue? The Bloothirster itself, Essence Reaver. Well, back in season 1/2 this item would have been spectacular as mana costs were much higher than they were now, but in season 5 our champions have learned to not hate mana pools as much as vlad pools and mana problems aren't as common as they used to be; the item is relatively useless today compared to its big brothers Bloodthirster and Infinity Edge. Also, WHY WOULD IT BE "ESSENCE REAVER" AND NOT REAVE ANY ESSENCES? Giving the job of full on tank buster to this item would not only be a good addition to the game, it would make the item make sense, take minuscule amounts of time to program, and also bring in an item that was never in since its release. Bjergsen's happy place. Tons of tanks means bad times for assassins, and it shows with all the previously dominant assassin champions fading to the wayside for people who can either provide utility or shred an obscene amount of armor (I'm looking at you Urgot). And we all miss our resident deletion expert Leblanc (well, some of us); so why not give champs like her a REAL substitute for Deathfire Grasp, considering that item was meant to kill tanks, why the hell did we not get a tank killing item? We got Luden's Echo which albeit is very nice, isn't very good at what DFG was supposed to do. Ludens has lower AP, bring in a NEW 120 AP item that truly fills the void in our hearts.

As always give me your insight, hopefully a rioter will come by and answer to why it could or could not exist and who it should be given to, in my honest opinion I think both of these are very nice since they both help with something that is just a weird thing that exists or not exists in the game (Essence Reaver being the existing thing, DFG's successor being the non-existant) NOTE: I MAIN VOLIBEAR AND I'M SAYING THIS, DAMN AM I A MASOCHIST.

19 Comments

grLKQ9ma0o4/19/2015, 7:36:32 AM2 votes

... No.

Cinderhulk creates the problem of tanks in this game: Dealing massive damage while not building damage items.

Items need tradeoffs. If you don't build damage, don't do damage. Use your utility to win.

MidEvilKnight3k4/19/2015, 12:21:30 PM1 votes

I don't like the idea of items whose effectiveness is based on the bonus stats of the opposing champions. It puts the stats into two categories of usefulness. All items should do either flat damage, or damage based on current or max health, indiscriminate of how the target got their stats. The damage does not have to scale linearly, so you can still have an item focus very heavily on high HP targets if you want, but it should be based on the health they have, not where they got it.

There is a huge problem with an item that is based on the Bonus HP (or another example, armor pen based on bonus armor). If your team has one tank, and someone on the other team builds the tank busting item, the tank busting item does not only focus on tanks, but it makes any defensive item purchased by anyone on your team worth less. It discourages the APC or ADC from grabbing that defensive item because the usefulness of the health or armor got reduced by 25%.

The other problem is that you will have to decide how to deal with different champion kits. Some kits give health (permanently or temporarily), is that health considered bonus health? Now the item just counters Lulu because it helps kill whoever she ults.

ForgiveColour4/20/2015, 2:13:43 AM1 votes

tldr yes it does

Erockandroll4/20/2015, 4:58:58 AM1 votes

Tanks, are Hyper carries, simple as that.

Long answer. Riot realizes that Tank Junglers were getting out farmed, out leveled, and even with the sunfire esc passive, Early game Junglers would still dominate and snowball compared to their late game counter parts. This is why Tank Junglers power has been shifted to the late game.

So Really tanks are Just ticking time bombs, Your only screwed if you can't snowball to victory.

{quoted}

... No.

Cinderhulk creates the problem of tanks in this game: Dealing massive damage while not building damage items.

Cinder Hulk does between 16+(level) to 24+(level *1.5), at max level it will only be doing between 34 and 51 magic damage per second. Which is far from being tons of damage, and does not scale with health. What does scale with health though is the Gromp, smite buff.

The only way this could do tons of damage is if your the glass cannon, and if that's the case, you have no business engaging the tank without your Tank/support peeling for you.

BluePolarizer4/20/2015, 5:12:41 AM1 votes

tanks are incredibly hard to kill for bruisers, assassins and burst mages, but they're not that hard for ADCs and certain sustained damage mages (especially Azir, Cassiopeia and Brand).

Its the circle of life. Tanks > Bruisers/Assassins/Burst Mages > ADCs/sustained damage mages. I main bruisers and don't have a problem with tanks. If I lose its because I got outplayed and failed to punish them, or positioned poorly.

Cenobite Azaziel4/22/2015, 10:55:47 AM1 votes

One simple argument: !) SOTAG got heavily nerfed when top laners started to build it because of the gold eficiency. Some top laners are picking up smite, instead o TP or flash (!) so they can build cinder hulk. Expect it to be nerfed really hard.