Can we lower the width on Brand's W?

tempname4864··15 votes·22,070 views

The most recent nerf really did nothing, adding 10 mana to W doesn't effectively change anything about how broken he is, he just does way too much damage with way too few items.

I feel lowering the width of his W a bit would be a step in the right direction.

When laning against a support Brand, unless you have tumble, blink, or maybe strut available, if he w's you with cursor on you, it's almost impossible to not get hit by it, and it does maybe 1/5 to 1/4 of your health pool with no real risk, as he's able to cast it from extremely far away. Adding the ability to escape this ability would make it a bit more balanced, since it is currently impossible if you aren't already moving, have a gap closer, or tier 2 boots.

later in team fights, when he is able to engulf the entire team in one W and then ult, if he has 2-3 core items, it almost kills an entire team, for someone who points and clicks an ult that seems a bit out of control, yes there are counter measures, however, say there is a brand support with an annie, there's absolutely no counterplay at this point if she tibbers ults you, or amumu ult, wombo combo is a thing, however, oriana ult, yasuo ult, malphite ult, none of these do as much damage as brand with similar gold count

to make brand an actual fair champion to play against, you'd have to lower W width, lower ult damage slightly, and that would be about it. he would still be on par with other mid laners, just not disgustingly broken. I'd ideally like to see champions that are easy to play have more risk involved for their reward, leaving champions that require a lot of map awareness, technically, and mechanical skill to be as strong, if not stronger to reward you for putting in more effort. People say this is unfair all day, but don't complain about hyperscaling champions, even though it's the same thing, put in effort at the beginning to stay alive, win easier in the end.

hopefully this will be taken seriously and doesn't end up as another brand main downvoting fest.

43 Comments

RiotMeddler20 votes

Yeah, Brand's definitely too strong at present. There's a bug fix in 6.1 however that should take a noticeable amount of power away from him. At present his ult almost always prioritizes champions, rather than only priotizing champions if the target it's bouncing from is already Ablaze. That makes it quite a bit easier for him to burst enemies down in most circumstances. The fix for that should go out in the patch next week, unless any delays crop up, after that we'll then reassess and see if any further changes are needed.

tempname48645 votes

{quoted}

Yeah, Brand's definitely too strong at present. There's a bug fix in 6.1 however that should take a noticeable amount of power away from him. At present his ult almost always prioritizes champions, rather than only priotizing champions if the target it's bouncing from is already Ablaze. That makes it quite a bit easier for him to burst enemies down in most circumstances. The fix for that should go out in the patch next week, unless any delays crop up, after that we'll then reassess and see if any further changes are needed.

well, that is good to hear, i can deal with a rough laning phase if his ability to kill an entire enemy team in one R is fixed a bit.

ChickenWrap5 votes

{quoted}

Yeah, Brand's definitely too strong at present. There's a bug fix in 6.1 however that should take a noticeable amount of power away from him. At present his ult almost always prioritizes champions, rather than only priotizing champions if the target it's bouncing from is already Ablaze. That makes it quite a bit easier for him to burst enemies down in most circumstances. The fix for that should go out in the patch next week, unless any delays crop up, after that we'll then reassess and see if any further changes are needed.

Any ETA on the single-target skillshot fizzling bug? Taric's E Veigar's R Shaco's E Viktor's Q etc.

They all fizzle mid-animation (even if it's at the end) when targets enter the fog of war. This becomes a major issue when sometimes the animation for the spell goes off (A giant Primordial Burst shooting at the target) but upon making contact, will deal no damage, will not apply stuns/DoT/etc., and if you check the skill, it will not be on cooldown.

Rammus Soup1 votes

Taric :I hate when my Dazzle fizzles.

Desiderium2 votes

What about the width of his stun? It's been broken for years. When will something be done about this???? If it MUST be kept, at least increase the size of the particle AT LEAST.

RiotMeddler9 votes

Brand Q has a width of 60 (same as Mystic Shot as a point of reference). It's elevated off the ground however, which means that at certain angles the hit location (on the ground) doesn't match up well with the intuitive hit location (the missile itself). Almost all skillshots suffer from that problem to some degree, unless they're at ground level. Due to Brand's height however it's more pronounced on him than most.

Photos of Ghosts1 votes

Can we then have a ground indicator / shadow?

Same for tornados? There's people out there who have a few problems with 3d perception

EvilMerodach2 votes

{quoted}

Brand Q has a width of 60 (same as Mystic Shot as a point of reference). It's elevated off the ground however, which means that at certain angles the hit location (on the ground) doesn't match up well with the intuitive hit location (the missile itself). Almost all skillshots suffer from that problem to some degree, unless they're at ground level. Due to Brand's height however it's more pronounced on him than most.

Petition to make Brand a yordle. Akali Kennen Shen: BALANCED! Rammus: ok Fin *next week on Mutant Ninja Nerfers....

Earl Eulrich4 votes

oh wow, brand is still too strong - because you did go very easy on him, while nerfing any other immobile mage in the same patch for no reason at all much harder. gj. maybe get the balance-guys a new set of dice.

blfUvZ8Ybu5 votes

{quoted}

Yeah, Brand's definitely too strong at present. There's a bug fix in 6.1 however that should take a noticeable amount of power away from him. At present his ult almost always prioritizes champions, rather than only priotizing champions if the target it's bouncing from is already Ablaze. That makes it quite a bit easier for him to burst enemies down in most circumstances. The fix for that should go out in the patch next week, unless any delays crop up, after that we'll then reassess and see if any further changes are needed.

Also Lux too strong at present.Also more safe than Brand.More range than Brand.You like to Lux.I'm sure.Lux is op for 3 months but why doesn't nerf Lux?

Nitr81 votes

If the R change is implemented can we get better wording on the ability, because live it says "If the target is 'Ablaze' Pyroclasm will prioritize champions for the next bounce"? Which could be interpreted as once an Ablaze'd target is hit with Pyroclasm the rest of the ultimate's bounces will prioritize champions.

blfUvZ8Ybu3 votes

{quoted}

Yeah, Brand's definitely too strong at present. There's a bug fix in 6.1 however that should take a noticeable amount of power away from him. At present his ult almost always prioritizes champions, rather than only priotizing champions if the target it's bouncing from is already Ablaze. That makes it quite a bit easier for him to burst enemies down in most circumstances. The fix for that should go out in the patch next week, unless any delays crop up, after that we'll then reassess and see if any further changes are needed.

I'm still waiting sensible answer.Why didn't nerf Lux for 3 months?

exe31 votes

Any chance Brand's ult will be tweaked at some stage (possibly with the immobile mage changes) so that it doesn't rely so much on RNG?

The Yetii Rider1 votes

{quoted}

Yeah, Brand's definitely too strong at present. There's a bug fix in 6.1 however that should take a noticeable amount of power away from him. At present his ult almost always prioritizes champions, rather than only priotizing champions if the target it's bouncing from is already Ablaze. That makes it quite a bit easier for him to burst enemies down in most circumstances. The fix for that should go out in the patch next week, unless any delays crop up, after that we'll then reassess and see if any further changes are needed.

Wow, that sounds like a devastating nerf to ARAM Brand.

Would it be possible to do a map specific compensation, like on Howling Abyss only if the first target is Ablaze then every bounce prioritizes champions?

Ryzoe5 votes

NO. What the hell man? Ive played Brand for 3 seasons, no one looked his way, no one said anything about him being broken, people barely used him. And now suddenly, he gets a taste of the limelight and he's broken? W's widths too much, Q's stun too long, ult has too much priority to champions. This bull. lol. I'm hella salty about this.

Abyssphere1 votes

[{quoted}](name=ECG Ryzoe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=tVsMLBAg,comment-id=00010009,timestamp=2016-01-10T18:30:44.241+0000)

NO. What the hell man? Ive played Brand for 3 seasons, no one looked his way, no one said anything about him being broken, people barely used him. And now suddenly, he gets a taste of the limelight and he's broken? W's widths too much, Q's stun too long, ult has too much priority to champions. This bull. lol. I'm hella salty about this.

Champions are constantly getting nerfed and the roster is consistently becoming weaker because of this. Brand was inevitably going to get his time in the sun because every single champion eventually does. It happens - you just have to hope the nerfs aren't too harsh and deal with it.

Carnicore2 votes

Wrong move in my opinion. That bug is the only reason he was playable... he'll fall into total obscurity again once you fix it. Making it a standard feature of his kit, and nerfing something else would be better.

DIRU1 votes

{quoted}

Wrong move in my opinion. That bug is the only reason he was playable... he'll fall into total obscurity again once you fix it. Making it a standard feature of his kit, and nerfing something else would be better.

we're supposed to be sad about that?

Abyssphere1 votes

{quoted}

Wrong move in my opinion. That bug is the only reason he was playable... he'll fall into total obscurity again once you fix it. Making it a standard feature of his kit, and nerfing something else would be better.

It makes no sense to make that bug a standard part of his kit because a standard part of his kit is already dedicated to making his ult reliable. To make his ult "supposed" to prioritise champions regardless of his passive, they'd need a new passive interaction for his ult and then you've got a flat buff.

If the bug fix somehow makes him unplayable then they can easily buff him, but he shouldn't be strong because one of his abilities isn't functioning as intended. I know you're going to say "But Riven's animation cancelling!" but I don't think animation cancelling is comparable. Making an ability's cast time/animation shorter is one thing, making an ability have a function it's not supposed to is quite another.

Xelvi2 votes

{quoted}

Yeah, Brand's definitely too strong at present. There's a bug fix in 6.1 however that should take a noticeable amount of power away from him. At present his ult almost always prioritizes champions, rather than only priotizing champions if the target it's bouncing from is already Ablaze. That makes it quite a bit easier for him to burst enemies down in most circumstances. The fix for that should go out in the patch next week, unless any delays crop up, after that we'll then reassess and see if any further changes are needed.

How is he 'definitely too strong'? Your stupid new masteries have already been nerfed to make him more tolerable, but really, you reply to a thread complaining about W width?

Ummmmmmm... I'm sorry but he's been this way since the nerfs after release. And you know what? Buy boots, dodge W - HEY, WHADDYA KNOW? EVERYTHING'S DANDY.

He is an immobile mage with a skillshot stun that requires 2 ABILITIES and drops off incredibly late game. And guess what? If you don't stand on top of each other, his R does NOTHING. On top of that, the only people it does any real damage to after 35 minutes are squishy carries, so what's the problem?

What's worse is you're nerfing a mid champ because of his stupid, cheesy support role. This pre-patch is a joke and has made everyone realise that you guys actually don't even know your own game.

TheAngryDUCKY4 votes

You guys are way way waaayyyy over exaggerating on the brand w.... when u see the circle move.... I literally dodge almost all of brands w every time I face him and im only in silver 5 ... and I usually play heim with low af move speed...

LegitBusinessman3 votes

Brand W and Lux E have the same problem. It's almost imposible to miss with them. The range is enormous, hitbox wide, I have to rush tier 2 boots when laning against either of them, which sets you behind in early trades preeetty hard.

tempname48644 votes

{quoted}

Brand W and Lux E have the same problem. It's almost imposible to miss with them. The range is enormous, hitbox wide, I have to rush tier 2 boots when laning against either of them, which sets you behind in early trades preeetty hard.

yeah, lux is only slightly less annoying, lol.

Zane Zephyr5 votes

I find lux to be 10 times more annoying since she can pre-detonate it now, you have literally zero chance to dodge it

and I also feel like cho's Q is way more of a problem than brand's W is

Photos of Ghosts3 votes

Cho's Q? Heavily delayed and long casting animation (stops him from moving). Maybe you mean his W?

Zane Zephyr2 votes

Uh...No? I'm talking about the thing that has 305 base damage at level 5 and 100% AP scaling that knocks you up for a second then slows you by 60% for 1.5 seconds, because losing half of your health instantly and being knocked up wasn't enough...Which is his Q.

blfUvZ8Ybu5 votes

[{quoted}](name=Zane Zephyr,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=tVsMLBAg,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2016-01-07T01:48:24.549+0000)

I find lux to be 10 times more annoying since she can pre-detonate it now, you have literally zero chance to dodge it

and I also feel like cho's Q is way more of a problem than brand's W is

Absolutely.Lux more annoying.Because more safe.

Roxas Voesi1 votes

Play anivia own Lux. I mean as long as you are aggressive and stay behind your minion wave so she has a hard time snaring you any midlaner should be able to deal with a lux.

blfUvZ8Ybu1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Roxas Voesi,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=tVsMLBAg,comment-id=00000000000000010000,timestamp=2016-01-13T14:09:22.509+0000)

Play anivia own Lux. I mean as long as you are aggressive and stay behind your minion wave so she has a hard time snaring you any midlaner should be able to deal with a lux.

Lux is safer than Anivia.More high range.

TotalJerk3 votes

Cho's Q is so unreliable that Nobody maxes it first.

BADxW0LF2 votes

That's the point of why I would pick a support brand. If you don't have any way to dodge, of course I'm going to pick him. Counter play bud. Part of the game.

tempname48641 votes

{quoted}

That's the point of why I would pick a support brand. If you don't have any way to dodge, of course I'm going to pick him. Counter play bud. Part of the game.

rofl, riot has stated many times staying out of range of someone permanently is not counterplay.. -_-

TotalJerk1 votes

Especially when said range is fucking 900.

BADxW0LF1 votes

Cooldowns. so not permanently

4NoxiousHours2 votes

HAHA BRAND MAINS!

Bijorn2 votes

Brand W hard to avoid? It is extremely telegraphed. I understand if the first thing you see is the circle on the ground. If you don't pay attention to the animations of the enemy brand then yea you will get hit for sure. Go into a custom game with a friend and see that Brand W isn't the full circumference that it shows. You can stand on the edge of it and not be hit.

As for his ult killing an entire team. Really? If it bounces to the same target more than once then yea that person is dead. But one hit from it isnt that bad. If it is one bounce it is fairly low damage His scaling is shit but his high base damage is a big factor in why his early game is so strong, alone with his passive. It is his passive that really hurts. If the enemy brand gets all of your teammates in a W then you deserve to loose that teamfight. He is an immobile skillshot oriented mage with no escapes that excels in teamfights. He is not too great at 1v1's as his ult can't bounce and get the most out of its damage.

Learn to play around his strengths.

  • He pushes waves once he has mana regen. Gank him.
  • Deny him early and he will have a hard time killing anyone. He is not necessarily feast or famine, but his three main items (ryalis, Liandrys and Void) are extremely expensive. He cant go through MR without void or liandrys.
  • He is hard countered by all in champs (and there are a lot of them that are strong right now)
  • Dodge his highly animated skillshots

Brand relies on MR shred. Without it his burst is easily survivable. Support Brand is difficult to counter now as most supports are mages as well. Morg, Leo, Ali are all great picks against him. Thresh is not the greatest as if Brands ADC gets hooked he is free to land his spells.

Harrisun2 votes

Of course a brand main would comment paragraphs disagreeing with everyone else on brand nerfs.

Bijorn1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Da Poro Slayer,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=tVsMLBAg,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2016-01-08T23:39:01.352+0000)

Of course a brand main would comment paragraphs disagreeing with everyone else on brand nerfs.

I mean in a way I can't disagree with you lol. Is he strong right now? Absolutely. I never disagreed with that. What I AM disagreeing about is how "hard" it is to avoid his W. The QQ about him right now is almost on par with the QQ that happens with LB and Zed when they become strong in the meta even though he is completely immobile. I feel like I gave some decent ways to counter him honestly.

Brand has not been touched for a long, long time. He has never been buffed numbers-wise. The only buff you can say he got "recently" was the base mana regen and growth that most mages got in 5.22. New items have made him strong along with the meta.

If there is going to be a nerf, I think a decent one to go to would be his Q stun. Make it scale with level so it is not a 2 second stun at level 1. That would be a pretty decent one. But there is also a bug right now with his ult where it prioritizes champs even if they arnt ablaze, giving him much more power than he should have. Again, he has high base damage but low ratios. If you are going to lower the base damage to lessen his early game lane bulling, than I expect higher AP ratios for mid-late game.

MunchCrunchLunch1 votes

yes. this. please. I can't escape his fucking W unless am LITERALLY AT THE EDGE. since the circle appears immediately when he casts it. its not like chogath where after you see the animation. you see the location of it. the damn W just flames you during the animation that he does making it impossible to be telegraphed. now obviously champs with higher skill caps are better if you master them. however there is still too much room for mistake with them. i mean i dont care how good you'e with azir or something at some point you will mis ult or E into the enemy team and get instakilled.

The Great Saiyan1 votes

I havent 1 shotted an entire team in a long time on Brand, sure maybe if they would bunch up at 15 minutes but I dont believe ive done a team fight before 25+ minutes in ranked or normal and they have some form of MR. Not to mention people know how to counter brand and move away from other targets for it to bounce, rendering Brand worthless. I have had more ults target minions than or not a single bounce than I have had a concentrated enemy ult.

Im not the best Brand but I have beat plenty of plats, and if these silver/golds are smart enough to make the ult null, than I can only imagine at higher elo how ineffective his ult is. And before anyone flames me consider this, as brand most likely your a high priority target unless you suck, therefore you forced to stay at back lines and hope when team fight emerges your ult finds its way to more than the front line.

The Great Divide1 votes

He is too strong right now, but FQC is also a major problem as with the active, brand doesn't even have to try and hit his skillshots. With that item, he basically becomes a point click champion.... that also deals insane dmg from range and has %health DOT...

The Great Saiyan1 votes

guys seriously.. Learn to beat him. He cant do a single thing to you if your good enough to move out of w, and avoid the q. Literally all his damage in lane comes from that. You cant avoid his E I got it, when he E's you hes going to try and Q you, thats quite easy to advoid as long as your not consistently moving to the right each time, in which if the player playing brand has identified he will shift his aim to the right. I love brand, but I can destroy him with lux with ahri with anyone. If he misses a Q its your time to engage on him, he cant stun you.

Voidac1 votes

People have been saying he's so weak for three years. Now, all of a sudden, he's OP. "RIOT PLZ NERF WAAAH A MAGE WITH RANGE IS OP"

Seriously, people? Seriously?

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