Quinn

Gloric·Sep 27, 2015·3 votes·902 views

So i'm curious. I quite enjoy playing Quinn, but as far as I can tell almost no-one plays her?

I'm not a pro by any measure, but I do like to know my facts, so I have some questions;

Is she under-powered in the meta? it seems to me she isn't under-powered in and of herself, she has some real good lockdown/chase, etc.. but i'm told she isn't played mainly because she's top lane and top lane is almost always a melee/tank of some sort who can take hits, and Quinn obviously can't?

So in that sense, has there been any word from Riot on any plans to work her a bit? if so what do you think could be changed to make her more viable? I wouldn't want them to change her core playstyle, as that's what I like about her. But that's as far as my opinion goes. I only picked her up recently and have had fun in almost everygame with her.

Or in the end is Quinn just going to have to wait until the meta changes to suit her?

21 Comments

ThePartyLeaderSep 27, 20152 votes

Take Quinn. Destroy there top laner and get a kill or two on them. Ward up there jungle. Kill there jungler. Split push all game. If your team fights while you are split pushing use your ultimate to get to the fight and clean it up. Then repeat. Very few top laner can handle Quinn harass pre six and often if played right you can 1v2 there top and jungler when he comes to gank due to damage already put on there top laner. She is not played mostly I believe because she can not team fight at all. Compare her to teemo almost.

ltmetalSep 27, 20152 votes

The reason she isn't taken in the competitive scene is that she is unreliable, and reliability in the competitive scene is king.

The reason you pick Quinn is you want to find and duel the enemy ADC. If the enemy team is running double marksmen or has a top laner who is AA reliant (e.g. Aatrox Jayce Kayle Tryndamere Vayne ) then you should consider Quinn if you know how to abuse her unique strengths.

TenshouSNKSep 28, 20151 votes

{quoted}

The reason she isn't taken in the competitive scene is that she is unreliable, and reliability in the competitive scene is king.

The reason you pick Quinn is you want to find and duel the enemy ADC. If the enemy team is running double marksmen or has a top laner who is AA reliant (e.g. ) then you should consider Quinn if you know how to abuse her unique strengths.

what does it take for her to get on the competitive scene?

ltmetalSep 28, 20152 votes

Currently, there are three aspects of Quinn that make her unreliable. If any or all of them are changed during the marksmen gameplay update, Quinn will be viable for pro play.

Her passive cannot be counted on to win trades consistently against an experienced opponent (compare to Twitch passive or Vayne W).
Her ability to duel or survive in a teamfight hinges on landing Q. Winning or losing a fight based off a line skillshot hurts reliability.
Her escape through E puts her in just as much or more danger as she is exposed to at any given moment.

What I personally would like to see to make Quinn more reliable...

Make Harrier mark appear after 2 AAs on a target, and consumed on the next AA. Alternatively, you could make Harrier mark appear when an enemy falls below 30% HP and not fall on a new target until consumed.
Remove the windup time on Q and change it from a collision skillshot to a passthrough skillshot.
Remove knockback and reduce damage on E. Make Quinn untargetable while dashing.

TenshouSNKSep 30, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Currently, there are three aspects of Quinn that make her unreliable. If any or all of them are changed during the marksmen gameplay update, Quinn will be viable for pro play.

Her passive cannot be counted on to win trades consistently against an experienced opponent (compare to Twitch passive or Vayne W).

Her ability to duel or survive in a teamfight hinges on landing Q. Winning or losing a fight based off a line skillshot hurts reliability.

Her escape through E puts her in just as much or more danger as she is exposed to at any given moment.

What I personally would like to see to make Quinn more reliable...

Make Harrier mark appear after 2 AAs on a target, and consumed on the next AA. Alternatively, you could make Harrier mark appear when an enemy falls below 30% HP and not fall on a new target until consumed.

Remove the windup time on Q and change it from a collision skillshot to a passthrough skillshot.

Remove knockback and reduce damage on E. Make Quinn untargetable while dashing.

Where do you think she should be played most often? What lane?

Also I hope your not asking for too much, I wouldn't want Quinn to become a ban tier. But on the bright side, it would be cool to see pro players pick her more often than the typical vayne.

ltmetalSep 30, 20151 votes

As she is, Quinn isn't nailed down to one lane or role. I've even had a lot of success jungling her when the enemy team is very AA reliant. I personally feel she does best in the mid lane, though. Her kit allows her to roam like a monster and she is the second most burst of any marksman class champion.

The changes I suggested are not technically buffs (except for the Q), just tweaks to increase reliability. This increases competitive viability, but not necessarily her overall strength.

I strongly suggest you check out this page if you are passionate about Quinn. https://www.reddit.com/r/QuinnMains/

TBakesSep 27, 20151 votes

I think most complain that she is buggy and her AA/abilities are unreliable.

KaminoXSep 27, 20151 votes

her range is stupid short she isnt really buggy her abilities aren't that great.. :/ but i played her last night it was fun!

Pika310Sep 30, 20151 votes

but i'm told she isn't played mainly because she's top lane and top lane is almost always a melee/tank of some sort who can take hits, and Quinn obviously can't?

Top and mid, yes. This is where she's played ~95% of games. As far as taking hits, she's actually quite durable in the sense of as far as ranged champions go. A few pros do play her in solo queue and she works well enough when built with typical bruiser items. BoRK is always a must on her and after that, whatever suits the situation. Remember that Valor is a melee champ, so he gets full benefit of melee items.

The problem Riot has is that they want her to be an ADC, but her kit is not designed to work as an ADC. Of course, creating champions with kits not designed for Riot's intended role is one of the things Riot is best known for. Example: Zyra, Blitz, Ekko and et cetera.

TenshouSNKSep 30, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Top and mid, yes. This is where she's played ~95% of games. As far as taking hits, she's actually quite durable in the sense of as far as ranged champions go. A few pros do play her in solo queue and she works well enough when built with typical bruiser items. BoRK is always a must on her and after that, whatever suits the situation. Remember that Valor is a melee champ, so he gets full benefit of melee items.

The problem Riot has is that they want her to be an ADC, but her kit is not designed to work as an ADC. Of course, creating champions with kits not designed for Riot's intended role is one of the things Riot is best known for. Example: Zyra, Blitz, Ekko and et cetera.

do you think we will actually see quinn in competitive play i.e worlds etc. For example, vayne is played a lot in finals and semi finals, could we one day see Quinn picked?

Pika310Sep 30, 20151 votes

Quinn has seen competitive play already. Albeit unsuccessfully, so I'll set that aside for now.

Will we see her** viable** in competitive some day? I can't say for sure, but almost certainly not without some serious buffs or a good rework.

If Riot decides one day that they want Quinn to be strong, it'll happen. This game is at the mercy of the "Balance" Team's biased whims. So if a Quinn main just happens to get hired into the department, I'm sure she'll see her day in the spotlight.

The thing with Vayne being picked right now is the meta is so focused around tanks and stacking defensive stats. There is no real counter to % true damage, making itemization difficult. She has kiting skills, meaning that "juggernauts" don't work against her. You can try to blow her up as an assassin or bruiser, hoping her team doesn't peel.

TenshouSNKSep 30, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Quinn has seen competitive play already. Albeit unsuccessfully, so I'll set that aside for now.

Will we see her** viable** in competitive some day? I can't say for sure, but almost certainly not without some serious buffs or a good rework.

If Riot decides one day that they want Quinn to be strong, it'll happen. This game is at the mercy of the "Balance" Team's biased whims. So if a Quinn main just happens to get hired into the department, I'm sure she'll see her day in the spotlight.

The thing with Vayne being picked right now is the meta is so focused around tanks and stacking defensive stats. There is no real counter to % true damage, making itemization difficult. She has kiting skills, meaning that "juggernauts" don't work against her. You can try to blow her up as an assassin or bruiser, hoping her team doesn't peel.

what kind of serious buffs or rework are we talking?

Pika310Sep 30, 20151 votes

Who's to say what would tip the scales? A lot of champions have suddenly appeared onto the competitive seen after a series of buffs several patches in a row.

For buffs? Just a few ideas I have:

Add % damage onto her passive.
A damage reduction passive for Valor.
Put a heal on her kit somewhere.

For a rework, in regards to changing her class from bruiser to ADC, they would have to completely scrap her ult and create something new from the ground up. Personally, I don't like this idea. I think it would be a better decision to secure her niche as a ranged bruiser, which the buffs I listed are more aimed at that.

TenshouSNKSep 30, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Who's to say what would tip the scales? A lot of champions have suddenly appeared onto the competitive seen after a series of buffs several patches in a row.

For buffs? Just a few ideas I have:

Add % damage onto her passive.

A damage reduction passive for Valor.

Put a heal on her kit somewhere.

For a rework, in regards to changing her class from bruiser to ADC, they would have to completely scrap her ult and create something new from the ground up. Personally, I don't like this idea. I think it would be a better decision to secure her niche as a ranged bruiser, which the buffs I listed are more aimed at that.

neat.

What lane do you think she would be picked in if all those buffs were legit and do you think pro players would actually pick her in like semifinals / finals of world championships if those changes went through?

And so your saying that with those buffs she would be chosen in the competitive scene more often like vayne is?

Pika310Sep 30, 20151 votes

If all 3 were to go through? Surely she'd retain herself in top and mid, but the increased damage and sustain could give her a spot in the jungle as these are 2 things necessary for the role. Maybe she'd get played bot? I can only make guesswork here.

Depending on how high the numbers on these abilities or the combination of all 3 are, it's possible she could see some playtime, at least in certain matchups or teamcomps. Particularly, she's actually a hard counter to juggernaut champions, Darius especially and does well in lane against most melee champs in general. Similar to champs like Irelia, Fiora or Hecarim, she can jump to the backline during teamfights and pin down the ADC while taking the enemy team's aggro.

TenshouSNKSep 30, 20151 votes

{quoted}

If all 3 were to go through? Surely she'd retain herself in top and mid, but the increased damage and sustain could give her a spot in the jungle as these are 2 things necessary for the role. Maybe she'd get played bot? I can only make guesswork here.

Depending on how high the numbers on these abilities or the combination of all 3 are, it's possible she could see some playtime, at least in certain matchups or teamcomps. Particularly, she's actually a hard counter to juggernaut champions, Darius especially and does well in lane against most melee champs in general. Similar to champs like Irelia, Fiora or Hecarim, she can jump to the backline during teamfights and pin down the ADC while taking the enemy team's aggro.

would she actually be picked a lot as in "vayne level" picks at lcs, worlds / championships? And what about her being ban tier?

Pika310Sep 30, 20151 votes

For anyone to see "Vayne level" pick rates, they have to be a strong blind into most situations and there needs to be a shortage of viable picks into that role, or they outclass most others. As things stand, there are plenty of viable back-line diving bruisers, including the ones I mentioned and several others. With strong enough numbers, those changes could be enough to go to the top of that list. Contrarily, if they were too low, nothing would happen at all.

Bannable champs tend to follow many trends:

You have the unstoppable outliers like Alistar proved last year.
You have strong priority picks you don't want blue side to snatch up.
Counter picks you don't want to see played against your team comp or against your carry player.
Of course, specialty picks that specific players gravitate to that you don't want to let through.

If a champ is the top pick in its class, there's a good chance they can get banned out for being a priority pick or a hindrance to your team's composition. A lot of champs that see play in pro games tend to be the 2nd or 3rd best option because the 1st is consistently banned away.

TenshouSNKSep 30, 20151 votes

{quoted}

For anyone to see "Vayne level" pick rates, they have to be a strong blind into most situations and there needs to be a shortage of viable picks into that role, or they outclass most others. As things stand, there are plenty of viable back-line diving bruisers, including the ones I mentioned and several others. With strong enough numbers, those changes could be enough to go to the top of that list. Contrarily, if they were too low, nothing would happen at all.

Bannable champs tend to follow many trends:

You have the unstoppable outliers like Alistar proved last year.

You have strong priority picks you don't want blue side to snatch up.

Counter picks you don't want to see played against your team comp or against your carry player.

Of course, specialty picks that specific players gravitate to that you don't want to let through.

If a champ is the top pick in its class, there's a good chance they can get banned out for being a priority pick or a hindrance to your team's composition. A lot of champs that see play in pro games tend to be the 2nd or 3rd best option because the 1st is consistently banned away.

Do you think she should be picked a lot if the changes or buffs went through in the competitive scene? Would she actually be picked by top teams as we see the same situation with current meta champs? Also with those buffs, would she actually be able to take on enemy adcs like lucian etc or corki that are hard to fight? Also the buff you proposed, would that make her viable or just completely stronger. How would quinn like fair with meta supps like thresh on the same team synergy wise.

Falconfighter24Oct 1, 20151 votes

I have mained Quinn as an ADC since her release and would like to think I have had really good success with it (even with her never technically in the meta). I see her discussed and played primarily as a top or mid lane pick though but my personal preference for her overall is as an ADC. Now I am biased towards this because I main ADC in general as well (I haven't experimented as much with her in mid or top). As an ADC for her, I try to rely on her huge burst potential. Almost no other ADC is able to fight her 1v1 IF she lands her q. Even though I love playing Quinn, I fully recognize her issues as a reliable ADC. Many of these have been mentioned already but the top three for me are as follow:

Her passive is on a timer which makes it unreliable
Her Q is make or break in duels. It almost guarantees a winning trade against the other ADC or other AA based champs if landed but seriously hampers your potential to win if you miss. Also, by late game the opponent my pick up a qss which renders the blind useless.
She is a poor ADC for teamfights.

The biggest one for me is the third one though. Based on her ult, you make her a melee champion which really defeats the purpose for having her be your ranged ADC. As a result, I tend to treat her more as an assassin. I use my ult to flank around to instantly burst their ADC before a fight breaks out if possible. For competitive play however, this is almost impossible. Being able to have your ADC flank without being caught and escape shouldn't ever happen due to more vision around the map. So this means that she is more likely to be in the back line for an actual teamfight. Here is where I believe she struggles the most. Unless you have bork, you don't have a good means of taking out the front line as some of the other ADCs.

Split pushing works really well for her but then I would agree that she would be better suited for top because you still would prefer to have your bot ADC to be with the rest of your team. If Riot really wants her to be an ADC then her ult definitely needs to be reworked because its just not suited for an ADC during a teamfight. I personally feel like she is still missing something though. Whether that gravitates her more towards top lane or bot lane, I don't know but I feel like something needs to change for her.

Feel free to disagree with me on what I have said. I personally have had success with her in both normal and ranked so far but she is one of the only ADCs that I play completely differently. I'm curious as to what others have to say with response to my post though.

LovelleOct 9, 20151 votes

Quinn only feels underpowered if you build her glass cannon. If you build some defensive items on her she becomes a strong anti-AD duelist and is quite hard to kill.

It's pretty silly to be honest, you can build insanely tanky and still kill carries, out-duel pretty much every bruiser, and shred tanks. Only AP burst champions will give you a rough way to go. Quinn doesn't really have an answer for them, but that's what counters are for I guess.

Tanky bruiser Quinn reminds me a bit of Urgot.

ltmetalOct 30, 20151 votes

Quinn players rejoice, the marksman changes are about to make roaming Quinn mid kind of a big deal.

http://www.surrenderat20.net/p/current-pbe-balance-changes.html#qui1 http://boards.pbe.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/champions-gameplay-feedback/PE1LJTOM-quinn-pbe-feedback-thread

Her dueling and jungling potential are both being severely clipped, but at the benefit of waveclear and some serious map pressure from her ult. Additionally, she abuses a bunch of the new and reworked items. Most notable items include Youmuu's Ghostblade, Giant Slayer, Rapid Firecannon, and Death's Dance.

All that's left is to make her passive more reliable, and she will be LCS ready.