New dragon rewards piss all over supports/tanks

Summerfest·Nov 20, 2014·4 votes·1,198 views

The new dragon rewards need a defensive path option. Tanks (mostly junglers) and supports are really getting screwed over with the dragon changes, especially with the first dragon buff. Instead of the desperately needed early game gold, supports/ tanks get two buffs in a row that are essentially useless to them. Support tanks take it the hardest, as 3 out of the 4 buffs are worthless to them, with the 5th dragon only doubling the gap.

I propose that we get defense and offensive paths for the dragon buffs, like 8% of total AD/AP OR 8% of total Armor/MR. I imagine you'd pick them much like how you pick Kha Zix evolves.

9 Comments

CozarkianNov 20, 20143 votes

Tanks become harder to ignore because they their auto attacks hit harder without the need to use a slot for damage items. Tanks in top lane or jungle benefit from the wave clear/clear speed of buff #2. Buff #3 helps them get to fights, initiate and stick to targets. Buff #4 obviously helps them kill turrets faster when tanking them.

Supports now have enough money to build offensive items. Those that aren't tanks will get enough AP to make use of the buff, plus extra oomph to their auto attacks. Buff #1 and #2 both help last hit if your adc has to leave lane. Buff #3 helps you ward, run away, and stay in proper positioning to peel. Buff #1 and #4 help you take your enemies' tower.

Everybody benefits from dragon. Admittedly, tanky supports like Leona have it the worst, and she'll still be happy with the extra auto attack damage, turret damage, movement speed for initiating.

FeatherztormNov 20, 20141 votes

That's a cool proposition.

SummerfestNov 20, 20141 votes

Thanks.

Another point of interest: Champs like Riven snowball not only harder, but faster with the new dragon buffs. Even at level 6 with only ~100 AD, the first buff is worth nearly 300 gold in stats for her. And they're instant, she doesn't even need to go back to shop for them. Meanwhile, all the tanks shed amumu tears as they get nothing.

SecretAgentHulkNov 20, 20141 votes

IDK but as a support Braum and top Malph player (Bronze I, fire away) I think they're decently useful, not as much as on an ADC obviously but not unwelcome. 1st stack means a bit more damage in an all-in, not bad and maybe the difference between almost got 'em and double kill. 2nd stack helps proc Targon's easier support, and makes Malph's waveclear way better. 3rd stack, obviously helpful. 4th stack means I'm not as useless when the jungle tank and I are split-pushing (don't ask, also it's better for my AP Teemo build).

FırewallNov 20, 20141 votes

There's a slight flaw in that though. Sure, at first look it might appear that tanks would benifit alot more from armor/mr than ad/ap.

There is a moment in botlane that I like to call HBM(High Burst Moment), which is when either marksman gets caught,and the support and marksman apply all of their combo on the locked target, often it dictates who wins the fight, and most support tanks possess a relatively high burst potential. But, the average HBM of a fight happens really fast in the botlane, and it is often a matter of who bursts more, and not who takes more damage Leona, Alistar and Blitzcrank work like this, you all in your enemy and hope that your marksman reacts dealing enough damage to either force the enemy marksman to run for his life rendering him useless or instantly kill him.

Even Taric and Thresh who aren't considered "tanks" by League's champ classifier play by this standarts, see the opening, take it, hope you burst enough hp.

Now you tell me, to intensify your burst, which stats do you pick? AP/AD or Armor/MR?

There is one support that would like this change, and that's Braum. His burst isn't that high and he would appreciate the extra defenses for tanking, which is how his trading works.

SummerfestNov 20, 20141 votes

most support tanks possess a relatively high burst potential...... Now you tell me, to intensify your burst, which stats do you pick? AP/AD or Armor/MR?

There is one support that would like this change, and that's Braum. His burst isn't that high and he would appreciate the extra defenses for tanking, which is how his trading works.

The first buff increases their total AD/AP by 8%. Tanks in general, do not build AP/AD at all. The first buffs gives zero benefit to tanks, with the second buff giving zero benefit to supports.

CozarkianNov 20, 20142 votes

They still get an 8% boost to their base AD. For someone like Braum, that's 4 to 8 AD. It's not zero benefit, just almost zero benefit.

On the other hand, some AP tanks might actually build an AP/MR item, so they will get some benefit. Also, Rammus gets AD from armor, so he'll get a better bonus, too.

I'd still prefer to see flat bonuses that scale with level rather than % bonuses. That would remove a lot of the disparity in advantages provided to offensive and defensive champions.

I also wouldn't object to seeing AR/MR bonuses (dragon scales) in lieu of AD/AP.

SmokingPuffinNov 20, 20141 votes

The dragon buffs are indeed not so spiffy for non-damage characters.

I would have liked more strategic advantage buffs (e.g. more MS when moving towards enemy champions, more damage to turrets) and less "you deal more damage". I think this system still has the potential to be cool, clearly dragon is the most important objective now.

kcStrangerDec 16, 20141 votes

I don't really agree with your solution (it just seems inelegant to me), but I definitely agree about the problem. I actually posted in extended fashion about how the first dragon buff fundamentally imbalances the game (http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/6qF2XQEj-new-dragon-is-imbalanced-but-can-be-fixed).