After worlds riot have no excuse to not look at melee top laners

rudetoughguy·Oct 7, 2019·55 votes·17,817 views

theres nothing to say at this point is just obvious range characters have to much advantage over melee, they are safe, scale equally or even better (mages, vayne...) theres no reason to play melee at this point, just not farming and looking how your turret plating gets taken in order to not die or be forced to back. There needs to be more melee exclusive stuff in runes or items or fixing the minion agro or just nerfing directly range super safe toplane bullies.

136 Comments

JuiceOct 7, 201929 votes

One of the problems is that runes work same way for melees and ranged champions, yet the game was never initially balanced around them.

Ranged champs have such an easier way of proccing runes and a significant portion of power is now allocated to those runes during laning phase and beyond.

boricCentaur1Oct 7, 201924 votes

Are you actually watching worlds since melee tops are by far more popular and played like pantheon is close is fucking perma banned.

Also range tops suck dick in soloQ like in pro play they have a chance in soloQ they're just dead. Like you need a team to make them work.

If they were a problem PEOPLE WOULD PLAY THEM.

But please keep lying to yourself that vayne top is op despite the fact no one plays her for a reason.

ChrisBrownzeOct 7, 201916 votes

No you just have to be good to use ranged tops, proper spacing is a skill most low elo players dont know.

Pantheon is perma-banned because his damage numbers are broken af from the rework. He doesn't represent the majority of melee tops.

boricCentaur1Oct 7, 20196 votes

{quoted}

No you just have to be good to use ranged tops, proper spacing is a skill most low elo players dont know.

Pantheon is perma-banned because his damage numbers are broken af from the rework. He doesn't represent the majority of melee tops.

LoL NO ONE IS PLAYING RANGE TOPS AT ALL. Like vlad and ryze but no one else and that is what I mean by are you watching worlds? Since they're not being picked pantheon, renek,and GP are the 3 most banned or picked tops in worlds so far and guess what none of them are ranged.

Also if you look at high elo NO ONE IS PLAYING RANGE TOPS.

They suck they're easily ganked and killed, and they don't do much after landing.

ChrisBrownzeOct 7, 20197 votes

I mean the majority of toplaners are melee so if melee and ranged are balanced, melee should be picked more statistically. Gnar is doing pretty well at worlds with a 30% PB rate and a 57% wr. Kennen is also getting played with a 75% wr. So you cant say ranged tops arent being picked at all.

boricCentaur1Oct 8, 20192 votes

{quoted}

I mean the majority of toplaners are melee so if melee and ranged are balanced, melee should be picked more statistically. Gnar is doing pretty well at worlds with a 30% PB rate and a 57% wr. Kennen is also getting played with a 75% wr. So you cant say ranged tops arent being picked at all.

I mean they're being picked I'm not disagreeing with that but they getting picked the same is basically every other season if not less. Like also it's not the range tops people are saying are op its normals fucking tops that show up almost every worlds.

rudetoughguyOct 7, 201910 votes

GP isn´t ranged? hmmm i gues jayce neither, renekton and pantheon are broken yes, thats no secret for enyone but that means melee is fine? and the only one is "easy" to gank is GP, and i repeat "easy". they dont do much damage, looks kennen and vladimir oneshoting the entire team, looks GP landing a barrel combo , looks vayne killing the other guy in 3 autos, looks gnar solo killing and being range abusive despite being a tank and having massive cc on his ult. picking melee just makes the lane harder, getting behind and therefore hurt the entre team (even being as irrelevant as toplane currently is) wonder why mostly worlds teams pick even ezreal or tristana

LordGeovanniOct 8, 20192 votes

Easy to gank gangplank Who innately doesnt go into melee range and even if he does lights a minion on fire and runs as if hes afraid Caitlyn and Vi will catch him drops a barrel runs over it shoots it to slow the enemy who is chasing and refreshes his speed because those cops sure are getting close. Quite frankly Gp plays nothing like his bad ass pirate self is supposed to due to having to run away all the time and being so effective from range. They should probally buff his defenses nerf his Q cooldown and change his E to physical damage ignoring up to 15% of armor and hard buff his ult stacking so that it only needs 350 SS or something.

General Esdeath Oct 8, 201919 votes

{quoted}

Are you actually watching worlds since melee tops are by far more popular and played like pantheon is close is fucking perma banned.

The champ with a movable windwall and easier set up than yasuo is permabanned?!? no fucking way!

Also range tops suck dick in soloQ like in pro play they have a chance in soloQ they're just dead. Like you need a team to make them work.

Pick Kennen top into any melee tops you see this week. Just play it for a week or 2 and let me know how it goes.

If they were a problem PEOPLE WOULD PLAY THEM.

Ranged tops like Cassiopeia Gnar Jayce Kennen Neeko Teemo Vladimir aren't really rare

But please keep lying to yourself that vayne top is op despite the fact no one plays her for a reason.

Vayne top is incredibly OP, the problem is that your team has to coordinate for a lack of a top lane tank or mage, meaning your jungler or support HAS to fill these roles. And this is solo queue we're talking about. Or pray your jungler can gank her early, but again, NA solo queue.

boricCentaur1Oct 8, 20198 votes

[{quoted}](name=General Esdeath ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=swRqEuAA,comment-id=00010001,timestamp=2019-10-08T05:55:15.016+0000)

The champ with a movable windwall and easier set up than yasuo is permabanned?!? no fucking way!

Pick Kennen top into any melee tops you see this week. Just play it for a week or 2 and let me know how it goes.

Ranged tops like aren't really rare

Vayne top is incredibly OP, the problem is that your team has to coordinate for a lack of a top lane tank or mage, meaning your jungler or support HAS to fill these roles. And this is solo queue we're talking about. Or pray your jungler can gank her early, but again, NA solo queue.

Let me just look up playrate in diamond for top lane. At 10th Kayle 13th Vladimir 18th Kennen 20th Gnar 22th Ryze 24th Teemo 28th Urgot 30th Jayce 34th Quinn 39th Vayne 40th Heimerdinger

And that's it meaning YES THEY'RE RARE especially two of the champions you list don't even show up when I look up playrate.

Also keep in mind that having a playrate in 20th or lower means it less then 4%. So you're telling me seeing champions that have there normal fucking playrates which aren't high is somehow is not rare lol.

Vanye top sucks basically every top can easily kill her and he just dies in to every single jg gank. Maybe you should go and play range tops since you clearly don't understand they aren't op.

bald man badOct 8, 20194 votes

I feel like you’re not understanding how dominant ranged top laners are. I don’t mean to be condescending, but I understand that you main jungle and currently play in an elo where micro isn’t usually well developed, so you probably haven’t personally experienced a competent ranged top lane player. It’s extremely oppressive and cancerous beyond anything you’d see in the jungle.

boricCentaur1Oct 8, 20194 votes

[{quoted}](name=l John l 15 13 l,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=swRqEuAA,comment-id=0001000100000000,timestamp=2019-10-08T15:33:57.243+0000)

I feel like you’re not understanding how dominant ranged top laners are. I don’t mean to be condescending, but I understand that you main jungle and currently play in an elo where micro isn’t usually well developed, so you probably haven’t personally experienced a competent ranged top lane player. It’s extremely oppressive and cancerous beyond anything you’d see in the jungle.

IF THEY WERE DOMINANT PEOPLE WOULD PLAY THEM!!!! Like I have proven that they're barely played in high elo meaning THEY ARE NOT DOMINANT IT'S THE FUCKING OPPOSITE.

TailypoOct 8, 20193 votes

{quoted}

IF THEY WERE DOMINANT PEOPLE WOULD PLAY THEM!!!! Like I have proven that they're barely played in high elo meaning THEY ARE NOT DOMINANT IT'S THE FUCKING OPPOSITE.

They are played (often) as counterpicks, and they do tend to dominate those matchups. Pull your head out your ass and forget about the percentages you keep referring to for a moment. If they continue to dominate as counterpicks you will see those percentages trending upward.

Ranged tops absolutely win lane against melee, but as others have pointed out, they tend to deprive the team of a tank which can prove to be a hindrance in the late game. Doesn't make the lane phase any less miserable for the melee tops. For example Heimer can't be touched by most melee tops during the lane phase (it's scary to even try and gank him), but he can easily be focused down in the late game. He does not make a great tank.

boricCentaur1Oct 8, 20193 votes

{quoted}

They are played (often) as counterpicks, and they do tend to dominate those matchups. Pull your head out your ass and forget about the percentages you keep referring to for a moment. If they continue to dominate as counterpicks you will see those percentages trending upward.

Ranged tops absolutely win lane against melee, but as others have pointed out, they tend to deprive the team of a tank which can prove to be a hindrance in the late game. Doesn't make the lane phase any less miserable for the melee tops.

Why do people just ignore facts?

If something is a counter pick that means it's SHOULD BE DOMINAT that's the whole point of it. But also they not counter picks at all like vayne and neeko I guess are but for the most part they're not.

Basically all range tops are pretty easy to kill like if anything most of them actually get COUNTERED by melee.

Like people have been saying range tops are op all season and guess what NOTHING no is playing them SINCE THEY SUCK. I'm pretty sure I can go back to the start of the season and people saying the same thing but the playrate is still low if not lower since jayce got nerfed pretty hard.

Vlad and kayle are good not op and kennen is just ok but the rest a pretty bad with the exception of ryze since I have no clue if he is good or bad.

If someone picks vayne top not as a counter they'll will lose pretty hard vs a panth or renekton two very popular champions. If someone picks a juggernaut into vayne well vayne should win since that's how counters work.

Like you keep fucking making this generalization at range champions in general are op but there not and the ones that are good are normal top laners.

Also who cares if you have a hard time landing like wtf saying that just shows you aren't thinking about balance and you're just mad because you don't want to learn. Like most range tops are very easily ganked like maybe not vlad but there's much kennen can do vs a j4 or lee with then jump on him since they will just cc him to the point where he will die of just his ult or flash meaning they will just return gank killing him.

Be more importantly laning is a small part of the game most of the time you're out of it at like 12 to 15 mins.

But please keep telling me that Quinn, hiem, teemo are broken I mean you didn't list them but you're generalizing so they much be op too.

VerxintOct 8, 20191 votes

Nice job showing the place and not the numbers. Even if those three above 20th place are only 5% pickrate and the ones below 20th place are 3% pickrate, that set you posted is present in 39% of games.

Not rare.

Remember, with about 120 champs and 10 unique per game, the average pickrate is onpy 8%, so just saying the pickrate with a low integer isnt the full story. Hiding numbers doesn't make your point magically correct.

boricCentaur1Oct 9, 20191 votes

Wait holy shit you actually don't understand stand how statistics in league are show wtf lol.

Guy don't talk about statistics if you don't understand how they work. Since it's not out of 100. If you add up all the percents in a data site it will never be 100% it will be over.

VerxintOct 9, 20191 votes

We are talking about pick rates in one lane, not the whole game. My point is also that a lot of low pick rates add up to a high pick rate.

So first I'll say this way: I added up the pick rates of ranged top laners, it came out to about 40% like I guessed. I'll admit it should be treated as 40 out of 200, since there are two top laners picked each game. That is still one in ten games, which is not rare.

Now, I'll try to explain why I added the pick rates in the manner I did.

A: 10% pickrate. Present in 5% of games B: 20% pickrate. Present in 10% of games

In 10 games, on average, A is picked 1 time and B is picked 2 times. If they are in separate games, that means 3 of 10 games has one of those two.

If one of the games overlaps (A vs B top lane) then it would be 2/10 games, but you could say the "saturation" is still 30%.

Now, take the perspective of someone who doesn't play A or B. That means in ten games they would see A or B 3 times, or 30% of the time.

Again, my point is that just because ranged top laners dont individually rank high on the most picked list doesn't mean the set of champions cannot have a high saturation.

LatetotheRaceOct 8, 20191 votes

In diamond people don't slave for meta styles constantly. Many diamond players often play their champ pools and their favorite champions. Diamond isn't soulless bitch level yet.

boricCentaur1Oct 9, 20191 votes

Ummmm yes they do wtf. That is why yummi became so popular or Aatrox, or tank viktor or tank ekko or just about any bs in league.

Diamond is where the most meta slaves are wtf.

LatetotheRaceOct 10, 20192 votes

And your experience with that is?...

VampiricLlamaOct 10, 20191 votes

{quoted}

And your experience with that is?...

crickets

General Esdeath Oct 9, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Let me just look up playrate in diamond for top lane. At 10th 13th 18th 20th 22th 24th 28th 30th 34th 39th 40th

And that's it meaning YES THEY'RE RARE especially two of the champions you list don't even show up when I look up playrate.

Also keep in mind that having a playrate in 20th or lower means it less then 4%. So you're telling me seeing champions that have there normal fucking playrates which aren't high is somehow is not rare lol.

Vanye top sucks basically every top can easily kill her and he just dies in to every single jg gank. Maybe you should go and play range tops since you clearly don't understand they aren't op.

You might wanna recheck that, unless you're using a korean only website

boricCentaur1Oct 9, 20191 votes

Nope still right. https://u.gg/lol/tier-list/?rank=diamond_plus&role=top

General Esdeath Oct 9, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Nope still right. https://u.gg/lol/tier-list/?rank=diamond_plus&role=top

You uh...you looking at the same site?

https://i.imgur.com/r3UTdTt.png

boricCentaur1Oct 9, 20191 votes

This is a troll right? That's fucking winrate not playrate which has nothing to do with champions being rare to see.

General Esdeath Oct 9, 20191 votes

{quoted}

This is a troll right? That's fucking winrate not playrate which has nothing to do with champions being rare to see.

"These champs are very rare! Look how little you see them when I narrow it down to one of the smallest elo brackets!"

Maybe try putting them by all ranks?

boricCentaur1Oct 9, 20191 votes

If they were good they would be played more that is not a opinion that is a fact. The higher you go up and less likely bad champions are played like if I go all ranks fucking nasus has a pretty high playrate is he good enough to have it no he is shit but he can snowball and solo carry very easy which are two factors that are hard to account for which is why going up in elo works since it lowers those factors meaning you actually see what is good and not just something people play to gain elo.

General Esdeath Oct 9, 20191 votes

{quoted}

If they were good they would be played more that is not a opinion that is a fact.

Ryze and the other LCS champs would like a word with you

The higher you go up and less likely bad champions are played like if I go all ranks fucking nasus has a pretty high playrate is he good enough to have it no he is shit but he can snowball and solo carry very easy which are two factors that are hard to account for which is why going up in elo works since it lowers those factors meaning you actually see what is good and not just something people play to gain elo.

Except the champ isn't what changes in elos, it's the players. Why pick the champ that relies on other people being dumb TwistedFate when you can play a champ that's reliant on how YOU play? Riven

Handy Sandy Oct 8, 20192 votes

Vayne top is incredibly OP, the problem is that your team has to coordinate for a lack of a top lane tank or mage, meaning your jungler or support HAS to fill these roles. And this is solo queue we're talking about. Or pray your jungler can gank her early, but again, NA solo queue.

This doesn't make sense either. Nobody plays top lane tanks, so you aren't missing out on one by picking a ranged top. Also, the most popular junglers and supports are already tanky...FILLING that role. Chances are even if you don't pick a ranged top, you already have a tank in the jungle or support.

Ranged tops like aren't really rare

They fall behind traditional picks like Jax, Garen, Shen, Renekton, Fiora...

There's only 2 ranged tops in the top 10 most played top laners which are Vlad and Kayle - who aren't getting early kills.

GilxeNOct 8, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Are you actually watching worlds since melee tops are by far more popular and played like pantheon is close is fucking perma banned.

Also range tops suck dick in soloQ like in pro play they have a chance in soloQ they're just dead. Like you need a team to make them work.

If they were a problem PEOPLE WOULD PLAY THEM.

But please keep lying to yourself that vayne top is op despite the fact no one plays her for a reason.

There is difference between solo q and lan players, issue is still persist.

boricCentaur1Oct 8, 20192 votes

{quoted}

There is difference between solo q and lan players, issue is still persist.

There is no issue at all.

GilxeNOct 8, 20196 votes

{quoted}

There is no issue at all.

I am wondering why u're downvoted every post, because your logic is unspeakable. [zombie-brand-clap]

WalkingInACircleOct 7, 201916 votes

Ah fixing minion aggro. I wish. They are never consistent.

Su1c1deOct 8, 201910 votes

A ranged top laner SHOULD be weak vs ganks. Sadly, everything in the game must have tons of mobility, including ranged carries...

VelvetCrotchOct 9, 20191 votes

That’s so true!!! And just look how no one of these “and what about? We know it better” guys commented on your post. Nothing to complain about ;)

KeiagaOct 7, 20199 votes

In most elos the top 3 or 4 of the top 5 highest winrate toplaners are melee depending on what you count Kayle as.

I'll list off some of the commonly picked ranged toplaners.

Jayce 42/46 Ryze 38/46 Gnar 36/46 Vladimir 35/48


![Urgot](https://ddragon.leagueoflegends.com/cdn/16.21.1/img/champion/Urgot.png) 15/48
![Heimerdinger](https://ddragon.leagueoflegends.com/cdn/16.21.1/img/champion/Heimerdinger.png) 9/48
![Teemo](https://ddragon.leagueoflegends.com/cdn/16.21.1/img/champion/Teemo.png) 8/48
![Quinn](https://ddragon.leagueoflegends.com/cdn/16.21.1/img/champion/Quinn.png) 3/48

Whoa.  Half of the ranged toplaners are in the worse half of the roster and half of them are in the better half.  It's almost like they're actually balanced for the most part.

Magnesium14Oct 7, 20191 votes

{quoted}

In most elos the top 3 or 4 of the top 5 highest winrate toplaners are melee depending on what you count Kayle as.

I'll list off some of the commonly picked ranged toplaners.

Jayce 42/46 Ryze 38/46 Gnar 36/46 Vladimir 35/48


![Urgot](https://ddragon.leagueoflegends.com/cdn/16.21.1/img/champion/Urgot.png) 15/48
![Heimerdinger](https://ddragon.leagueoflegends.com/cdn/16.21.1/img/champion/Heimerdinger.png) 9/48
![Teemo](https://ddragon.leagueoflegends.com/cdn/16.21.1/img/champion/Teemo.png) 8/48
![Quinn](https://ddragon.leagueoflegends.com/cdn/16.21.1/img/champion/Quinn.png) 3/48

Whoa.  Half of the ranged toplaners are in the worse half of the roster and half of them are in the better half.  It's almost like they're actually balanced for the most part.

well you have to think about this logically:

Quinn top just isn't good anymore Heimer, Urgot and Teemo need reworks What about kenen and Vayne? The thing is almost no one plays the bottom 4 but almost everyone plays the top 4 who have an advantage over melee

The thigh guyOct 8, 20191 votes

{quoted}

well you have to think about this logically:

Quinn top just isn't good anymore Heimer, Urgot and Teemo need reworks What about kenen and Vayne? The thing is almost no one plays the bottom 4 but almost everyone plays the top 4 who have an advantage over melee

Vayne top was a thing for one week. Jesus. Christ

Does this mean adcs can still complain about Garen or irelia bot?

SaezioOct 8, 20193 votes

Vayne top is picked 20 times more than garen bot.

It plat+ world wide according to U.GG.

2,1% pick rate vs 0,1% pick rate (and that's a round up).

Irelia has been picked bot in 1k games in the same time Vayne was top in 33k games.

I am making no comment on whether Vayne top is strong or not. Just saying your comparison wasn't very valid. When Vayne pick numbers right now are on par with the highest ever numbers those 2 had back in their heyday.

When vayne top was "a thing for one week" as you say she nearly had 10% pick rate (something like 8% IIRC) Melees bot NEVER had such high pick rates.

The thigh guyOct 8, 20193 votes

{quoted}

Vayne top is picked 20 times more than garen bot.

It plat+ world wide according to U.GG.

2,1% pick rate vs 0,1% pick rate (and that's a round up).

Irelia has been picked bot in 1k games in the same time Vayne was top in 33k games.

I am making no comment on whether Vayne top is strong or not. Just saying your comparison wasn't very valid. When Vayne pick numbers right now are on par with the highest ever numbers those 2 had back in their heyday.

When vayne top was "a thing for one week" as you say she nearly had 10% pick rate (something like 8% IIRC) Melees bot NEVER had such high pick rates.

I wonder why Garen has a pick rate that’s so low. Let’s compare her to a champion that people actually play in high Elo.

Riven has about a 9% pick rate. So Vayne wasn’t THAT stupid. No worse than ziggs botlane was.

mark6028Oct 8, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=The thigh guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=swRqEuAA,comment-id=000500000001,timestamp=2019-10-08T04:47:55.313+0000)

Vayne top was a thing for one week. Jesus. Christ

Does this mean adcs can still complain about Garen or irelia bot?

no because adcs had a monopoly on their lane and the game for 6 years

The thigh guyOct 8, 20193 votes

{quoted}

no because adcs had a monopoly on their lane and the game for 6 years

Could it be because adcs are only allowed in that one role? And any time they leave that one role they get gutted into the dirt. Varus mid. Kog mid Kai’sa jungle Ezreal mid Lucien mid Ezreal jungle Top Lucien All gutted into the dirt because they dared to leave With a select few exceptions being Quinn(who idk why they haven’t fucked with) and kindred, who was specifically made to jungle.

Meanwhile every other class can be played in multiple roles. Mage - mid top jungle support Bruiser - mid jungle top Tank - no one plays tanks xD Assassin - jungle mid

LordGeovanniOct 8, 20191 votes

If by gutted into the dirt you mean made decent at what they are doing with out auto winning but since its such a far cry from what they were doing before everyone is gonna cry that they are gutted. then yeah gutted right into the dirt.

The thigh guyOct 8, 20192 votes

{quoted}

If by gutted into the dirt you mean made decent at what they are doing with out auto winning but since its such a far cry from what they were doing before everyone is gonna cry that they are gutted. then yeah gutted right into the dirt.

Hahahahahahahahahahahaha. Made decent? Lucien was nerfed out of midlane then dropped from a 51% winrate in adc to a 47%. So yeah. Totally just a “love tap” nerf right?

How about Ezreal. Who got gutted out of the jungle then needed AN ENTIRE REWORK to become even close to good again. XD

LordGeovanniOct 10, 20191 votes

51% - 47% isn't bad on an off role. You guys just want to be god like at everything with no contention from anyone. If this was a 38% winrate that would be bad. But you guys really think that everything Champion role and build is gonna realistically sit in 2 % of 50% for the entire game. Ezreal is a busted champion that only does bad because EZREAL PLAYERS only ranged q poke and forget to use his auto attacks where he draws massive power from his passive and before his rework W too.

The thigh guyOct 10, 20191 votes

{quoted}

51% - 47% isn't bad on an off role. You guys just want to be god like at everything with no contention from anyone. If this was a 38% winrate that would be bad. But you guys really think that everything Champion role and build is gonna realistically sit in 2 % of 50% for the entire game. Ezreal is a busted champion that only does bad because EZREAL PLAYERS only ranged q poke and forget to use his auto attacks where he draws massive power from his passive and before his rework W too.

Funny. You typed a whole lot to address none of my arguments.

And no. 47% winrate in considered abysmal. A 53% winrate is considered unacceptable.

LordGeovanniOct 10, 20191 votes

Because your general consideration of winrates is nonsensical. Once again i ask you think every champion role and build is gonna be with in a 2% Differential of 50%? This has nothing to do with that champions who are supposed to be considered squishy are also supposed to be considered riskier and thus should have a lower than average winrate than Champions considered safe so the range should be even wider on the low end.

The thigh guyOct 10, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Because your general consideration of winrates is nonsensical. Once again i ask you think every champion role and build is gonna be with in a 2% Differential of 50%? This has nothing to do with that champions who are supposed to be considered squishy are also supposed to be considered riskier and thus should have a lower than average winrate than Champions considered safe so the range should be even wider on the low end.

How is it non sensicle. If a champion is winning too much, being a significant amount over 50% then the champion is too strong. If you can’t understand a topic that so simple, then I’m not even going to reply.