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I hate ludens echo with a passion...

Blkninjar87·6/5/2015, 1:40:22 PM·6 votes·1,177 views

For me atleast the DFG had a place, a purpose, forced you to activate it and was meant to do sonething. i can see riots rsasoning for removing it, but the replacement is by far worse than dfg was.

Ludens stats are so beneficial in a broad range of situations that just about every and any mage should buy it. It adds aoe damage to single target damage focused ap champs, allowing the champs whom once struggled with pushing, zoning and farming like katarina to push and farm on equal footing by just spamming their one and only ranged attack. Also it makes fighting long spells ranged champions an ambomination. Being hit by a bouncing bomb with ludens is way more devastating than ziggs having a dfg. To add insult to injury that item makes champions even more mobile....so basically its like an highly offensive item with a defensive stat? Why are we granting move speed to bursty champions with stuns, snares, fears, charms, blinks and binds... cause they need help staying in auto attack range or what?

It seems the only reason this item even was created was to help ahri, but no one ever considered how annoying, abusive, and oppressive this item is when rushed.

The thing that really really really bugs me is that it can work seemlessly on the item panel for damn near just about every mage and ap based assasin. It's just that powerful, that one does't even have to consider if you may or may not need that item! that item is basically just good for 90% of the time, on 90% of all games for 90% of all mages which makes it 90% gross.

I truly disdain this item, its worse than lichbane was before lichbane got nerfed.i hate the fact thatbchampions are now being balanced around its continuing existence. I dont see why item like atmas impaler got removed but this ridiculous crap can stay...just thought id express that opinion

+ + = old

17 Comments

It Hertz When IP6/5/2015, 1:48:56 PM1 votes

It gets more hilarious when paired with item 3151 .

Khâmul6/5/2015, 1:52:15 PM1 votes

and more hilarious when paired with Mordekaiser 's ultimate.no need to run after the target now.just run toward your base and spam your abilities ,your target will die :D

ProfDrDeath6/5/2015, 2:22:07 PM1 votes

Luden's big mistake lies in the fact that it gives APs access to bonus movement speed without impact their build path negatively.

Why is that a bad idea?

Because most mages (and all assassins) are based on the idea of hitting their complement of spells to damage several/outright destroy a single target, then retreat while waiting for cooldowns. However, this downtime is supposed to be a weak period, in which they can be caught out rather easily by faster enemies.

Giving them easy access to MS significantly reduces the impact of this weak period.

Llanite6/5/2015, 3:13:43 PM1 votes

100 + 0.15 is really really low, just a tiny bit higher than Nashor. can't see the problem.

Critmaster Garen6/5/2015, 3:20:45 PM1 votes

i think lux with ludens is less of a problem, since her spells already create a good amount of burst on their own. and the aoe makes it hard to control on which target it triggers. not to mention, she needs to build mana and mana regen or shes going to be relatively ineffective in the long run.

but the item makes even ap corki hurt.

the thing with ludens is, that its adds about 200 flat damage onto spamable abilities with relatively low base damage and ap ratios. making even something like corkis unempowered rockets hit for a good 400 damage in combination with ludens.

its also insanely strong on nidalees spear, or akalis ult.

the real problem with ludens is the combination with lichbane and spamable abilities imo, rather than long range support mages with long cooldowns.

khorney6/5/2015, 3:34:00 PM1 votes

However your forgetting certain ap champs have to get it there is no question. About it . Cass for example has to get ludens because her damage is so low as it is her q and w ap ratios are 15% which is why she has to get ludens. She has the lowest scaling of any mage in the game hell ap mf scaling is better then Cass lol so I really don't see a problem. Done champs get it just to get it not that it's not good on them however there are way better choices as far as items go

DrCyanide6/5/2015, 3:43:51 PM1 votes

I think you see Luden's more than DFG because it can be used on every AP champion, not just some.

DFG's audience was limited by it's active range. A Ziggs or a Xerath didn't want DFG because they weren't normally in range to use the active, while a LeBlanc or an Ahri charged into the range.

I can't think of a Mage that doesn't want more burst and more mobility.

Hupsis6/5/2015, 3:52:14 PM1 votes

Luden's echo is just boring. Was waiting for an interesting item to replace dfg.

New version of dfg:

+100 AP +10% cdr Active: shoot a magic amplifying bolt at a target direction. First enemy hit will be debuffed for 4 seconds reducing his/her magic resistance by 35% (alternatively the user gets 35% magic penetration so his/her whole team cannot benefit from this). If the target enemy is lower than 15% of their max health when the debuff expires, they will simply die.

Shields will be counted as health for the debuff and cleanse will remove the debuff.

Mandang06/5/2015, 4:10:40 PM1 votes

It's healthier than DFG was. Damage amp, %HP burst, still just as much AP, and CDR to boot made that item way too strong. While it might not have been as widely useful, the play pattern it supported was at least as harmful as those supported by Luden's (some assassins use both, but now assassins can't burst tanks. poke patterns have good counterplay in the form of hard engage and are healthier than dfg's burst pattern because of it).

For general purposes and in teamfights, Deathcap starts to overtake Luden's as the strongest pure-AP damage option pretty early. It's whenever 30% of your AP fed into your combined ratio exceeds 15% of your AP + 100. For all-ins and teamfights, your combined ratio is usually pretty large.

Honestly, most of the complaints I see about Luden's are either because they don't understand how to play against it (don't ARAM) or because they hate the champ who's using it anyway (Kat, LB, etc).

aaronconlin6/5/2015, 4:56:10 PM1 votes

When they talked about a replacement for DFG I assumed it would be a new item with the same build path. Maybe they could just do that, replace item 3113 with item 3108 , remove movement speed and add cooldown reduction.

Sinister Anubis6/5/2015, 5:11:07 PM1 votes

Ludens is like hydra for Aps Get over it hydra offers better stats and i dont see you complaining about that item now are you?

KidKaiser6/5/2015, 5:15:10 PM1 votes

i mean. it's cheaper than deathcap. and provides almost more or less damage depending on ratios and spell spamming. but in the case of spell spamming Luden's echo is the preferred choice. cuz hue/ free purple damage too ez.

they just need to tone it down and make it charge off of SPELLS HIT. not SPELLS CAST

3TWarrior6/5/2015, 5:25:18 PM1 votes

sure, it's annoying, but if you look at the damage ratios, if It gets onto a full ap viegar/Cassiopeia at 1500 ap, it only does like 425 damage max and those games almost never happen

compare that to DFG, which does 20% of a champion's maximum hp on a short cooldown click and increases all magic damage the target receives for a few seconds, imagine Xerath where one spell rotation can kill you, annie where you can't even react to it, ahri used to gain a tremendous amount of damage from her former E's passive.

It also makes it where there are only 2 point and click nuke items and they're for varied champs