Thorough Wrap up around what is wrong with Quinn's Rework, or at least what people FEEL is wrong!
Hey there; It's me again - Quinn & Valor enthusiast Kwathreon! You may have read my ideas for a rework, or my complaints about the changes and how these completely move away from what Quinn's core identity is both champion and lore wise - as much as strategical niche is concerned they just get thrown from one to the next. In this wrap up I plan on thoroughly going through the many thoughts and reasons and either dismiss them or provide substantial background/evidence for them; feel free to elaborate further in the comments or argue with my Wrap up! (I hope Riot Repertoir gives it a read and comments it - however unlikely it might seem, he has been very active so there is a small possibility!)
First off let's start with the most important issue at hand: Quinn&Valor's identity as a Champion Team in the game, and their lore - and how their kit does or does not reflect the CORE of Quinn's identity. There has been a lot of discussion and many different opinion on what is really core to Quinn&Valor's gameplay, and what role they really do fit. I will just base it off of their lore (what they were intended to be in the first place and what their initial design and lore depicts them as being). In order to understand this, first of all you need to know both their lore and the information on them that was given on their background during release, if you do not know anything about their lore and background feel free to check it out here to not be spoiled by my posts: http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Quinn/Background In their lore Quinn and Valor are defined as Demacia's Elite ranger Team. However the most important part of their lore that also reflects in their current (live) Kit, is HOW they became to be that Elite ranger Team in the first place. They were send out to hunt down a Noxian Assassin - this simple line already says SO much about what Quinn & Valor are! A simple marksman does NOT hunt down Assassins, it's pretty much the reverse as Marksmen are often the Primary Target of Assassins - however not so much with Quinn & Valor! Let's head on: The assassin they were supposed to track down and "take care off" was Talon "The Blade's Shadow"; orders from the King! Now; many of us Quinn&Valor players have already realized where this is headed: Both in the Lore and In the SR Quinn&Valor succeed in taking out Talon - thus becoming part of Demacia's Elite, as the best Ranger Team of Demacia's Realm, send out for all those deadly missions that no other scout can possibly carry out effectively- as a Team. In the Summoner's Rift, Quinn&Valor's kit effectively denies assassins such as Zed, Talon, Rengar, Yi and even Anti-carries such as Irelia who are designed to be both tanky and still destroy carries - What people seem to miss is what this means for Quinn&Valor: As much as Irelia becomes an "Anti-carry" by both being able to simply tank and thus evade the carries but aswell having the potential of shredding them or better said "Bursting" them down; Quinn&Valor are to be considered "Anti-Assassins" both being able to deny a lot of damage from assassin's such as Talon / Zed by Blinding them and using Vault to effectively deny them their much needed burst combo, AND also being able to turn the tables and instead efficiently taking out Talon, Zed and the likes by using their kit properly. Those of you who might not believe this have probably either never played Quinn&Valor vs a Talon / Zed of equal skill level and felt their dispair as they noticed that Quinn&Valor have all the tools needed to deny them their snowball and instead snowball off of them if played correctly.
Quinn's qoutes revolve around Valor Blinding the enemies, their lore says "The pair's unbreakable bond is deadly on the battlefield, leaving opponents blind and riddled with arrows long before they realize who they're fighting: not one, but two Demacian legends." so no one can really tell me that her lore and the new kit designed / her changes actually FIT that lore, because all of her Core Identity as an "Anti-Assassin" has been effectively taken out - now instead of Tracking down Talon, she would probably be taken out by him instead, never even accomplishing her Dream or reaching Demacia's Elite with Valor by her side, as he is effectively denied to fight for Quinn. Do they want to rewrite her whole lore? They might aswell create a new Champion and Leave Quinn&Valor be in that case; I can even provide you an idea to effectively using the new "Glider" ultimate: A Piltover Developer the likes of Jayce or Heimerdinger builds a glider that allows him to glide as if he had wings - build a kit around that, there you go. Makes sense doesn't it?
About the Blind being a part of their Kit that should not be removed, I can only say that the Lore and her Quotes already emphasize this as being CORE to what Quinn&Valor are and are MEANT TO DO during the game. If players are not able to achieve this in the game, it is NOT due to her having a "bad kit" or not being viable, or not having a defined and unique role in the game - all of that is NOT TRUE as you can read up above, if you really pay attention and WANT to know what her true nature is you will find it right there! She is considered a bad pick in live because of how unreliable her Passive and her Vault are, effectively denying her a LOT of potential that would be there if it worked properly - even Imaqtpie said this one stream one day while playing Quinn, that the kit in itself is really good but the inconsistency and unreliability is the REAL ISSUE with it.
Let's move on to her kit: As a Tag Team - Demacia's Elite Ranger Team - they provide both high mobility and superior senses in the form of Valor, allowing to track and hunt down any enemy; this translates into the game with Valor being able to spot enemies through W "Heightened Senses"; now if someone really wanted to mantain Quinn&Valor's core identity he would probably start of working with this skill, since Valor can do so much more than just provide vision for 2 sec on a radius around Quinn - there is so much more that could be done with this. A very simple idea would be for her to be able to track enemies within a certain radius - AKA showing enemies on the map by their Icon when they move into a certain radius of activity (this would require W to have be a toggle ability that consumes mana while enabled, and that updates the position of spotted champions for example every full second) - why the map? Because Valor circles over them, Quinn sees this and can pinpoint it on the map: a very simple while not very exact way to gather information on your opponents. Simply fixing her passive like on PBE would already be a big step while not being a big change; but as we see Riot does not seem to like simple fixes.
Her Vault was the one ability that centered more on Quinn herself - not so much on Valor, it provided her an escape in tricky situations and a follow up in chases, while not being unbalanced. That is hard to achieve on a single spell and it was really on a good spot. However the way it displaced you in an inconsistent manner was a real issue, sometimes you would jump that wall, sometimse from the same spot you would not - we see that with the changes to Vault on PBE this was fixed: so if there is a way to fix it why not simply do so on live to see its effects?
Her Q centered more on Valor, a bird going for the eyes makes sense since Valor is just an eagle and not a phoenix - thus the Blind is in cohesion with her Lore. Everything else just doesn't make sense, Valor is not big enough to really knock you up or lift you up in the air. That's why her Ultimate as is right now doesn't make sense. If they do need to change it they Should definitely change it to Valor flying in front or besides Quinn "guiding" her to her target and Quinn sprinting for the duration. But the ability to fight as Valor feels far more rewarding and definitely makes more sense lore-wise and in the whole context of them being a Tag Team and not just Quinn - aided by Valor. They are a ranger TEAM, it's not just Quinn being a ranger with a random eagle. They share a Bond with each other, they fight WITH and FOR each other - that's what we love about Tag Team, and that's why it should be preserved.
My final words to wrap this up are that if you really want to rework Quinn preserving her true core, and her identity - then you should probably start by reading up on her lore and her background instead of just looking at her kit; and then start thinking about ways to improve this champion (if there are no bugfixes that would, you know, already fix most of it or at least the most inconsistent and bothering part of it) without having to tear Quinn&Valors lore apart just to make a new kit fit in, and without having to change EVERYTHING about her just to make one single spell fit. Because if a new Ult requires a whole new kit, that kit needs a new lore and background in order for the lore and background to fit with the new kit, and then you basically already have: A new Lore, a new Kit, and what this basically means is a new champ sharing only some visuals with Quinn&Valor which makes no sense whatsoever because the only thing still separating this from a new champ is a new Visual Model :'D
