Yasuo's kit is broken.

Busty Demoness·Jul 14, 2018·4 votes·1,402 views

He is given two passives, one of which is a stat stick steroid so he only needs two damage items. His other passive is a mostly free defense steroid. He is given a skill with zero counter play and is known for being near impossible to deal with for those it counters. He has insane mobility mechanics to make sure he doesn't fall behind any future mobility creep.

If Yasuo is ever going to be balanced, he needs to be fully reworked and to lose all of his critical mechanics.

And before anyone says "but he's not OP", that doesn't change the fact that his kit is inherently broken by design.

25 Comments

Elite4RunnerJul 14, 20185 votes

You wanna know a topic I've never seen before on the boards?

It isn't this one.

Busty DemonessJul 14, 20182 votes

I would still love to see a LEGITIMATE defense on Yasuo's current kit state beyond "muh win rate".

AhpeJul 15, 20181 votes

Riven and Yasuo are broken but their win rate are luckily brought down by people who have no idea what a monitor is.

Busty DemonessJul 15, 20183 votes

Yeah, this is why I said "win rate isn't a valid argument".

It's like saying "well, if they're bad players they're easily countered". Being a bad user isn't a weakness of the champion.

AR URFJul 15, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=Busty Demoness,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rxmPrmRj,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2018-07-14T22:46:49.213+0000)

I would still love to see a LEGITIMATE defense on Yasuo's current kit state beyond "muh win rate".

He does 10% less crit dmg. Crits now don't go to 2.5x dmg because of crit changes putting yasuo at 1.9x dmg. Yasuo needs 100% crit chance to be beneficial. He's weaker in this meta than he was back before runes reforged thanks to scaling runes not being part of the game.

Busty DemonessJul 15, 20181 votes

Meanwhile, with built in doubled critical chance, he still only needs two items for 100% critical rate. This is what I mean by stat stick.

On top of this, one of those two items is Infinity Edge, which guarantees 10% of that 1.9x multiplier is going to be true damage and with 100% critical rate, he's doing it on every attack. Pair this in with Conqueror and he's converting that from 10% to 28% true damage after 4 seconds of combat.

The issue with his stat stick passive is that it's much more gold efficient than anything else that has ever been in League, even Kayle's AD/AP conversion. It also destroys part of what made critical strike balanced in general, and that's being reliable. A 10% cut in the critical damage total does not make up for the fact that he's scoring them twice as often. It would need to be cut to 150% or less simply because he gets reliability that nobody else can.

AR URFJul 15, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Busty Demoness,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rxmPrmRj,comment-id=0000000000010000,timestamp=2018-07-15T02:37:59.341+0000)

Meanwhile, with built in doubled critical chance, he still only needs two items for 100% critical rate. This is what I mean by stat stick.

On top of this, one of those two items is Infinity Edge, which guarantees 10% of that 1.9x multiplier is going to be true damage and with 100% critical rate, he's doing it on every attack. Pair this in with Conqueror and he's converting that from 10% to 28% true damage after 4 seconds of combat.

The issue with his stat stick passive is that it's much more gold efficient than anything else that has ever been in League, even Kayle's AD/AP conversion. It also destroys part of what made critical strike balanced in general, and that's being reliable. A 10% cut in the critical damage total does not make up for the fact that he's scoring them twice as often. It would need to be cut to 150% or less simply because he gets reliability that nobody else can.

100% crit chance means jack shit until he gets lifesteal and armor pen. 4 item games rarely happen now.

CaptainAntiHerozJul 15, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=AR URF,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rxmPrmRj,comment-id=00000000000100000000,timestamp=2018-07-15T04:11:05.221+0000)

100% crit chance means jack shit until he gets lifesteal and armor pen. 4 item games rarely happen now.

You only need three because last breath gives armor pen

AR URFJul 15, 20181 votes

{quoted}

You only need three because last breath gives armor pen

On paper it sounds great, but in practice it fails when you don't have resistances. There's a reason why I see most yasuo mains and myself go negative KD. It's because the higher the helo. The more people know how to deal with yasuo. In low elo yasuo comes in dashing throw minion waves and everyone freaks out and runs to tower. So getting those three items leaves you vulnerable to burst champions which is what the meta currently favors.

CaptainAntiHerozJul 15, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=AR URF,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rxmPrmRj,comment-id=0000000000010000000000000000,timestamp=2018-07-15T04:26:29.101+0000)

On paper it sounds great, but in practice it fails when you don't have resistances. There's a reason why I see most yasuo mains and myself go negative KD. It's because the higher the helo. The more people know how to deal with yasuo. In low elo yasuo comes in dashing throw minion waves and everyone freaks out and runs to tower. So getting those three items leaves you vulnerable to burst champions which is what the meta currently favors.

Ooooooo can you counter play the eq into raptors q e out into lane flash third q?

Never seen a Yasuo wall jumping?! Ooooooo don't worry the ways yasuo can crush a higher elo is down right dirty

AhpeJul 14, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=Busty Demoness,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rxmPrmRj,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-07-14T22:43:58.481+0000)

He is given two passives, one of which is a stat stick steroid so he only needs two damage items.

Life goes on

His other passive is a mostly free defense steroid.

Learn to play around it

He is given a skill with zero counter play and is known for being near impossible to deal with for those it counters.

Which one?

He has insane mobility mechanics to make sure he doesn't fall behind any future mobility creep.

Conditional mobility

If Yasuo is ever going to be balanced, he needs to be fully reworked and to lose all of his critical mechanics.

No.

And before anyone says "but he's not OP", that doesn't change the fact that his kit is inherently broken by design.

Again elaborate

Busty DemonessJul 14, 20182 votes

{quoted}

Life goes on

Riot reworked Fiora because they wanted to move away from stat sticking. Yet Yasuo has kept this purely stat stick passive and Pantheon has yet to be reworked for that reason. So either they're hypocrites or they're ignoring the problem.

Learn to play around it

"Play around it" amounts to "delay your damage". He wins in both cases and that means there's no counter play to it either.

Which one?

If you really need me to spell out Windwall, you're not making any progress.

Conditional mobility

And it's an easily met condition.

No.

Disregarded because you haven't backed up anything else.

Again elaborate

I shouldn't need to elaborate further until you give a legitimate argument.

AhpeJul 14, 20181 votes

Hey bro I don't want to turn this into a post where you're just screaming in my face

[{quoted}](name=Busty Demoness,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rxmPrmRj,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2018-07-14T22:54:55.903+0000)

Riot reworked Fiora because they wanted to move away from stat sticking. Yet Yasuo has kept this purely stat stick passive and Pantheon has yet to be reworked for that reason. So either they're hypocrites or they're ignoring the problem.

Ight yeah you got a point, I agree

"Play around it" amounts to "delay your damage". He wins in both cases and that means there's no counter play to it either.

Idk wym by "Delay your damage" but try poking him to pop his shield before going in. If you can't touch luck I guess.

If you really need me to spell out Windwall, you're not making any progress.

[cass-cry] Well windwall can completely kick a range champion completely out of a fight so you got a point, I agree

And it's an easily met condition.

Your only chance is to go 1v1 him with an AD bruiser since and hope he isn't fed since he'll just fly around otherwise. So you right there too

Disregarded because you haven't backed up anything else.

Rude af. Why does he need to be reworked completely and have his crit multiplier removed?

I shouldn't need to elaborate further until you give a legitimate argument.

Rude af

Busty DemonessJul 15, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Hey bro I don't want to turn this into a post where you're just screaming in my face

Ight yeah you got a point, I agree

Idk wym by "Delay your damage" but try poking him to pop his shield before going in. If you can't touch luck I guess.

[cass-cry] Well windwall can completely kick a range champion completely out of a fight so you got a point, I agree

Your only chance is to go 1v1 him with an AD bruiser since and hope he isn't fed since he'll just fly around otherwise. So you right there too

I'm glad you're open to my arguments.

Rude af. Why does he need to be reworked completely and have his crit multiplier removed?

Rude af

And I'm sorry for coming off as hostile. I am fully aware that Gameplay has a habit of using arguments with zero weight and additionally have nothing to do with the points I make. My intent was more to prevent people from using those to dismiss what I've said.

hi ìm grootJul 15, 20182 votes

Stop trying to balance the game around silver.

Busty DemonessJul 15, 20183 votes

I see that you're incapable of understanding the discussion at hand.

So perhaps you'd be better off leaving the thread for being unable to provide an argument that adds to the discussion.

hi ìm grootJul 15, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=Busty Demoness,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rxmPrmRj,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2018-07-15T02:03:40.348+0000)

I see that you're incapable of understanding the discussion at hand.

So perhaps you'd be better off leaving the thread for being unable to provide an argument that adds to the discussion.

This post is a meme I've seen on the boards a thousand times and its not worth contributing to. Yasuo has always been strong at killing players who play weak in lane because his ability to cross the lane so quickly through minions. This is a low elo problem. Yasuo is only okay in higher elos.

DuskDaUmbreonJul 14, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Busty Demoness,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rxmPrmRj,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-07-14T22:43:58.481+0000)

He is given two passives, one of which is a stat stick steroid so he only needs two damage items.

Lmao what. No. He only needs two crit items. He needs more damage items to compensate than the average crit user does.

His other passive is a mostly free defense steroid.

Paid for by his power budget. Also countered by a single auto.

He is given a skill with zero counter play and is known for being near impossible to deal with for those it counters.

I've had relatively few instances where it was impossible to deal with, unless he's using it to counteract a Twitch ult or something.

He has insane mobility mechanics to make sure he doesn't fall behind any future mobility creep.

That mobility is locked around enemy minions/monsters/champions, and has a long per-unit delay. Honestly it's far less useful than you'd think, especially if he's the one being engaged upon.

If Yasuo is ever going to be balanced, he needs to be fully reworked and to lose all of his critical mechanics.

Making him not crit-reliant would be nice. Pretty sure people would like him to be able to go BorK or something first.

And before anyone says "but he's not OP", that doesn't change the fact that his kit is inherently broken by design.

That's not broken, that's toxic. Broken means it's inherently OP. Toxic means it's shit to play against. Kalista's kit is broken. Yasuo's? Just toxic at times.

Busty DemonessJul 15, 20183 votes

Toxic and Broken have overlaps but they are not the same and overpowered is also similarly caught in the overlaps.

Broken typically means "either it's too good or it's useless". This is best illustrated by examples of Evelynn's stealth prior to her rework as well as Fiora's True Damage passive. Broken, when describing game design and balance, means it doesn't have a middle ground between great and useless. Overpowered refers more to the meta, and something that is not broken or toxic by design can be over powered due to the status of everything else. Something can be OP simply out of doing too much damage for too little effort. Overpowered generally does not refer to the design or mechanics and can be affected by numbers.

Toxic refers more to player vs player interactions, and there's tons of overlap because League is inherently a PVP game. Windwall is an excellent example of both Toxic and Broken. With the utility designed as it is, it's near impossible for it to not be extremely frustrating when being dealt with. Fiora's Riposte follows similar patterns of toxic design, however is less broken due to the limited effects against enemy players.

Dope SoloJul 15, 20181 votes

Just dodged a Yas game, because yes, he's broken, and yes all games with yas in it are instant trash.

CaptainAntiHerozJul 15, 20181 votes

As someone who abuses Yasuo as a stress ball if you don't want to have problems with a yasuo player get good at Fizz and laugh as he realizes all too late that he can't knock you up, he can't run away, and he can't have fun that game because you innately destroy yasuo with damage over time AND better mobility

Or just get used to playing Darius .... That works too

Busty DemonessJul 15, 20181 votes

That would be great if I could trust my mid laner to do that.

Most of the time I'm playing bot lane, and still sticking to my marksmen guns because I don't want to play mages/tanks/bruisers/fighters/assassins.

CaptainAntiHerozJul 15, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Busty Demoness,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rxmPrmRj,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2018-07-15T04:48:25.574+0000)

That would be great if I could trust my mid laner to do that.

Most of the time I'm playing bot lane, and still sticking to my marksmen guns because I don't want to play mages/tanks/bruisers/fighters/assassins.

MissFortune make it rain and strut dat ass outta there And if you're really worried about it summoner 6 summoner 21 summoner 3 all tend to make yasuo players either give up or int trying

CaptainAntiHerozJul 15, 20181 votes

Honestly yasuo falls more under the "frustrating to play against" than broken

He isn't tanky, not having attack speed means no consistent cc, heavily reliant on a comp that's knockup heavy or an enemy comp that's very immobile and lacking in cc.

He can't jump walls for free and to do so requires an enemy to Target Windwall has a long cooldown and he generally won't get CDR items Slows slow his e travel speed Damage over time screws him Mages that auto him to pop his shield before trading tend to beat him in prolonged trades Very all or nothing 88k mastery have taught me 1 thing Fuck yasuo, no matter the circumstance, there's probably a better pick, UNLESS you specifically feel windwall and high dps from your midlane is necessary

Basically complain about not Yasuo , he's a much harder to play against champ that is more frequent in your lane and punishes you for being near your support whereas if a Yasuo sees a Leona shield light up 90% of sane yasuo's are gonna not take that last breath because Leona q isn't the kind of problem you can windwall [slayer-jinx-catface]

Sir VegetaDec 22, 20181 votes

Passive that needs to be taken out by an attack, then you gotta work around the wind wall, then theirs his double crit %, then the use of no mana followed by his extreme mobility. Essentially, with just a little bit of lifesteal, he has amazing sustain, extremely hard to poke without effective planning and high damage due to the crit.