Ranked IS Broken Confirmed

T1 Zerenity··3 votes·1,653 views
T1 Zerenity - Summoner Stats - League of Legends

So numerous times I've been ranting about how the Ranked system is broken; how the algorithm for matchmaking lacks depth for variables such as one's KDA, CS/m, Wards, Objectives Taken, Damage Dealt, Damage Taken etc. I don't understand why these things would be hard to implement in the matchmaking system, unless they have a disproportional budget plan within the company itself. Every competative game SHOULD be based on SKILL, and so the more variables that are linked with skills, should be considered for the nature of the game to be more fair. I mean other games have it like fuking literally every tripple A shooter. But no, what I have realized after 6 years of league, amongst many other famous Streamers and Youtubers who quit league cuz of the argument that I'm about to bring up, is that RIOT DO NOT CARE ABOUT FAIRNESS; AT ALL! RIOT are very superficial people, they only appeal to the average person, things such as Aesthetics; looks, sounds, are Garens arms big enough, is Irelia's waist small enough etc.; but little do they care about the ones who are truly passionate about the game and actually keep the game alive and relevant. If that would be the case, then they would have made the matchmaking more fair, cuz in in it's current state is not fair. Mathematically speaking, you as an induvidual walk into a ranked match with 20% certainty, and 80% uncertainty. That in itself should, if Riot even gave a damn, trigger a logical awekaning inside their skulls "wow, maybe we need more variables to decrease the uncertainty amongst our playerbase", which then they would resort to implement more complex matchmaking algorithm they literally everyone would benefit from. In it's essential form, games would be less volitile, less uncertain and less feeding. A victory in "lower elo" league in its current form has somewhat little to do with skill, but mostly luck. As much as the ass licking oga boga people AKA the Beta Guardians of Riot's Incompetence like to paint a picture of "EVERYTHING IS IN YOUR CONTROL", well I'm sad to tell you that is not how reality works and you must get off of league a while and take up philosophy classes. Literally, the only people complaining about how KDA should not be a part of the matchmaking system, are those Vitamin deficent beta cucks who cannot play the game and rely on being carried every game. The plain field should be even, where the potentiality for carrying should be even. Riot only care about as I said, superficial things, but also, the things that generate them money such as the kids who drool over their keyboard for some shitty Louis Vetton skin and naturally the Pro Teams. The rest, they don't give a shit about. Oh, and another thing to prove that their shitty system is broken, is that I played Ranked Flex, and had a Renektion who outside of the match was level 14 https://eune.op.gg/summoner/userName=Phoenix27740 . I mean, RANKED FLEX, MATCHED WITH A LEVEL 14 PLAYER, HELLOOOO RIOOOT? How is that even possible, cuz the requirement to play ranked is to be level 30 but nope Riot said fk that rule and placed a level 14 guy in my match who then naturally went and fed and lost me the game as usual, just beautiful and I thank Riot for that. Much love riot, you are doing great. Oh, and I need to add this quote by Einstein who said "insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results"; Welcome folks to the League of "Legends". Teemo I hope you feel proud for increasing depression, stress and anxiety amongst the society. [slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

19 Comments

Kai Guy3 votes

You realize that account had not been updated on Op,gg for 9 months? https://eune.op.gg/summoner/userName=Phoenix27740 I refreshed it, Wanna guess what level he actually is?

T1 Zerenity4 votes

[{quoted}](name=Kai Guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rvyd4WgB,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2020-02-13T22:10:26.494+0000)

You realize that account had not been updated on Op,gg for 9 months? https://eune.op.gg/summoner/userName=Phoenix27740 I refreshed it, Wanna guess what level he actually is?

oh cool you adressed one point and disregarded the main body of my argument ok. Well fair enough, you got me on that one. However, if we stick to the same subject of that guy, oh shit, look, his kda, 1.17:1, 35% kill participation. Why THE FUCK... is HE IN MY GAME?? WE ARE CLEARLY NOT ON THE SAME FKING LEVEL. That's what Im talking about man but you people blind af thinking every rant is invalid and only person in the wrong is the person ranting. Thats why nothing is getting fixed or improved cuz of you people. Blind af, ignorant like a trunk.

Kendren12 votes

Because you are in starter player elo and you're both starter players... like what? Why wouldn't he be?

You don't just get to decide you're good at the game, the point is to climb to a point where you play with better players.

Also the "main body" of your argument isnt really worth addressing. You are complaining that the game doesn't judge you based on skill. The primary metric of determining how well you played your games... is whether or not you won. No one who actually plays this game wants RIOT to determine what decides you did well in a game, riot doesn't understand their game for shit. If your strategy/macro/micro are all superior to the elo you're in... you'll win more than you'll lose and you'll climb. That's how ranked works...

T1 Zerenity3 votes

{quoted}

Because you are in starter player elo and you're both starter players... like what? Why wouldn't he be?

You don't just get to decide you're good at the game, the point is to climb to a point where you play with better players.

Also the "main body" of your argument isnt really worth addressing. You are complaining that the game doesn't judge you based on skill. The primary metric of determining how well you played your games... is whether or not you won. No one who actually plays this game wants RIOT to determine what decides you did well in a game, riot doesn't understand their game for shit. If your strategy/macro/micro are all superior to the elo you're in... you'll win more than you'll lose and you'll climb. That's how ranked works...

Typical response, just what I predicted and literally what I adressed in my text. The course of the game is not solely in your hands. I'm not gonna continue to adress you if you keep making that bullshit point

Kendren13 votes

You type "not continue to address if i keep making that bullshit post" as tho u just read my one comment twice and responded twice without realizing i only posted one comment rofl. Yes ofc your games are not going to be in ur hands because youre playing st YOUR skill level, as much as that seems to drive you crazy. Believe it or bot when u play in higher elos, people will still get destroyed in other lanes. But thats just league, it even happens in lcs matches.

I will tell u that people whose emotions overrule logic consistently tend to suck at league... forever, and alot of other things to. So my advice would be to calm down and acthally think objectively for abit and do some self reflecting. Otherwise just face that this may not be the type of game for u.

T1 Zerenity1 votes

{quoted}

You type "not continue to address if i keep making that bullshit post" as tho u just read my one comment twice and responded twice without realizing i only posted one comment rofl. Yes ofc your games are not going to be in ur hands because youre playing st YOUR skill level, as much as that seems to drive you crazy. Believe it or bot when u play in higher elos, people will still get destroyed in other lanes. But thats just league, it even happens in lcs matches.

I will tell u that people whose emotions overrule logic consistently tend to suck at league... forever, and alot of other things to. So my advice would be to calm down and acthally think objectively for abit and do some self reflecting. Otherwise just face that this may not be the type of game for u.

stfu you lame boy you aint shit, you don't know who you're talking to. Speaking of sucking at league, I just looked up your profile on OP.gg and GOD my EYES! As I suspected, a Vitamin deficient eboy arriving to guard Riot's incompetence. Im light years ahead of you, im done with you. Bye bye feeder!!Teemo

Kendren11 votes

Haha wtf, you really think you can BM me just cuz I fucked around and started season on a lose streak? I outrank you by a ton XD. And very likely always will.

T1 Zerenity3 votes

{quoted}

Because you are in starter player elo and you're both starter players... like what? Why wouldn't he be?

You don't just get to decide you're good at the game, the point is to climb to a point where you play with better players.

Also the "main body" of your argument isnt really worth addressing. You are complaining that the game doesn't judge you based on skill. The primary metric of determining how well you played your games... is whether or not you won. No one who actually plays this game wants RIOT to determine what decides you did well in a game, riot doesn't understand their game for shit. If your strategy/macro/micro are all superior to the elo you're in... you'll win more than you'll lose and you'll climb. That's how ranked works...

I like how you dont adress the guy that had a kda of 1.17:1 and went and lost my game. I cant do much shit when a fed illaoi comes and wrecks havoc, but oh no, everything is in my control, I should be able to handle that. I should be in control of whether or not renekton goes and feeds or not in laning phase. Kiddo. Use your common sense if you have any

Kai Guy2 votes

Well, I was letting you know why he was in ranked games. Level 14 would be restricted.

Far as Gameplay. MMR and Elo systems don't give a shit about actual gameplay. Not how the function or are designed.

So, him having a shitty KDA and being dead weight? That's fine because that's why he will sink down below the curve. He had 2 wins 2 losses prior to that match. He is still in Placement games. He will end up low on the ladder as a direct result of preforming badly. The system does not magically know your skill prior to seeing how you match up to the players around you.

Class intervals are the name of the game.

What will happen in an Elo system is when you see a player is clearly mismatched you refund points to the accounts it impacts. There are systems in place to try and preserve the integrity of ratings, they do not give a shit about gameplay. Its a reactive system, not proactive.

Why THE FUCK... is HE IN MY GAME?? WE ARE CLEARLY NOT ON THE SAME FKING LEVEL

Currently, you are. Your in the same range. You have lower uncertainty. He has higher. If proven to be consistent deadweight compared to a majority the new guy will sink, and he sinks at a far faster speed due to being set at higher uncertainty.

See, The on paper 50% is not reality. The reality is you don't actually expect high uncertainty accounts to be properly graded. Its fair to the system, its fair on paper, and the reason Raiting points change after games is the system thinks, I might be wrong better adjust to reflect the results of this game. And this never ever stops. every new game is a new value. And you build it so trends in recent play will outweigh the impact of old games. You sort faster by having heavy weight on individual games with a low sample size. Its some fairly complex math but its honest to god really simple logic use.

So, pro and cons. Subjective grading is faster. It can't be automated. This makes it useless for MM. Objective grading takes multiple data points and time. It does not give a fuck about gameplay or player experience. It works of a simple set. 1 or 0. Yes, No. Win, Loss. The more modern systems use Bayesian inference to speed things up.

I know that sounds weird but it provably and consistently works. The math and logic are solid. The distribution of players on a team gives you a consistent advantage or disadvantage around personal skill. 4/9 slots vs 5/9 slots for a game losing player to fall via RNG. LLN systems are a time proven method to remove "luck".

If your lose your lid I probably wont respond again. If your interested in understanding the math to make ratings work by all means ask questions. I can walk ya over Elo pretty easy, then let you know the steps needed to adapt it to MMR. I cant discuss Riot's system specifics apart from the generalizations they shared, but well that's nothing new. Even with Elo its intended to be adapted with time and data specifically for the population the systems raiting.

T1 Zerenity1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Kai Guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rvyd4WgB,comment-id=000000000001,timestamp=2020-02-14T00:19:25.227+0000)

Well, I was letting you know why he was in ranked games. Level 14 would be restricted.

Far as Gameplay. MMR and Elo systems don't give a shit about actual gameplay. Not how the function or are designed.

So, him having a shitty KDA and being dead weight? That's fine because that's why he will sink down below the curve. He had 2 wins 2 losses prior to that match. He is still in Placement games. He will end up low on the ladder as a direct result of preforming badly. The system does not magically know your skill prior to seeing how you match up to the players around you.

Class intervals are the name of the game.

What will happen in an Elo system is when you see a player is clearly mismatched you refund points to the accounts it impacts. There are systems in place to try and preserve the integrity of ratings, they do not give a shit about gameplay. Its a reactive system, not proactive.

Currently, you are. Your in the same range. You have lower uncertainty. He has higher. If proven to be consistent deadweight compared to a majority the new guy will sink, and he sinks at a far faster speed due to being set at higher uncertainty.

See, The on paper 50% is not reality. The reality is you don't actually expect high uncertainty accounts to be properly graded. Its fair to the system, its fair on paper, and the reason Raiting points change after games is the system thinks, I might be wrong better adjust to reflect the results of this game. And this never ever stops. every new game is a new value. And you build it so trends in recent play will outweigh the impact of old games. You sort faster by having heavy weight on individual games with a low sample size. Its some fairly complex math but its honest to god really simple logic use.

So, pro and cons. Subjective grading is faster. It can't be automated. This makes it useless for MM. Objective grading takes multiple data points and time. It does not give a fuck about gameplay or player experience. It works of a simple set. 1 or 0. Yes, No. Win, Loss. The more modern systems use Bayesian inference to speed things up.

I know that sounds weird but it provably and consistently works. The math and logic are solid. The distribution of players on a team gives you a consistent advantage or disadvantage around personal skill. 4/9 slots vs 5/9 slots for a game losing player to fall via RNG. LLN systems are a time proven method to remove "luck".

If your lose your lid I probably wont respond again. If your interested in understanding the math to make ratings work by all means ask questions. I can walk ya over Elo pretty easy, then let you know the steps needed to adapt it to MMR. I cant discuss Riot's system specifics apart from the generalizations they shared, but well that's nothing new. Even with Elo its intended to be adapted with time and data specifically for the population the systems raiting.

"What will happen in an Elo system is when you see a player is clearly mismatched you refund points to the accounts it impacts. There are systems in place to try and preserve the integrity of ratings, they do not give a shit about gameplay. Its a reactive system, not proactive."

This is all very wonderfully worded, almost like a dream system isnt it. Well, I'm sorry to say this, but what you just said there is nothing but a blatant lie that you've probably fetched from a lying Riot developer. You know, now I've had either feeders, or AFK people in my 5 recent losses, and you know what, what I've realized, is that the best thing to do for me is to quit league, which I'm going to do, cuz 1. The majority of the playerbase is delusional, 2. Riot don't give a shit and 3. My expectations are not met. That's just it, I'm done. I'll only come back when they've done something about this shithole system thats diminishing my gaming experiance and hindering my potentiality. League of Unfairness, idgaf.

Kai Guy2 votes

This is all very wonderfully worded, almost like a dream system isnt it. Well, I'm sorry to say this, but what you just said there is nothing but a blatant lie that you've probably fetched from a lying Riot developer.

https://imgur.com/a/tiyqa9o

I am simply telling you what has been done dating back to 1960 and has been published from 1978. This predates Riot by a few decades.

You know, now I've had either feeders, or AFK people in my 5 recent losses

I gave you a link to the Nomenclature page. Please point out the gameplay or Feeder variable. I am telling you that gameplay does not matter to systems built like this. It just does not care about individual games. I provide the contentious rating formula for you to fact check that.

I took the time and put in the effort to learn about Rating systems. Have you?

T1 Zerenity2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Kai Guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rvyd4WgB,comment-id=00000000000100000000,timestamp=2020-02-16T08:20:30.660+0000)

https://imgur.com/a/tiyqa9o

I am simply telling you what has been done dating back to 1960 and has been published from 1978. This predates Riot by a few decades.

I gave you a link to the Nomenclature page. Please point out the gameplay or Feeder variable. I am telling you that gameplay does not matter to systems built like this. It just does not care about individual games. I provide the contentious rating formula for you to fact check that.

I took the time and put in the effort to learn about Rating systems. Have you?

thats all wonnderful my friend, whilst you rely on an theoretical approach on this subject matter, I'm taking a more pragmatic stance and experiencing the game at first glance. Yes, the fact of the matter that I get matched with teammates who have considerably lower damage output than me, worse cs per min, higher death ratings and overall worse performance than me; we get put in the same match, and I cannot escape this dumbass elo that Im in cuz of these players who keep hindering my climb. My friends laugh at the fact that I'm in silver, and they laugh cuz its a funny matter, I mean, I laugh too! Its just amazing! So I've had enough of the bs, I wont come back until they've fixed the mess and drained the swamp.

Kai Guy1 votes

First up, if your not having fun playing then absolutely take a break. Its insane to do anything else. Games should be enjoyed not a chore.

Your literally holding up values as evidence for your beliefs that have absolutely nothing to do with how rating systems are made. They only thing they support is your beliefs. Your hypothesis and conclusion are the same dam thing.

Meh, you have been fairly rude this entire thread. Whatever, you don't want to play? Stop playing! Easy peasy. You don't want to improve? Don't improve. It's no skin off my back. Thanks for the confirmation you have no understanding of the topic. If you ever want to learn about it your welcome to let me know, just don't be a jerk about it.

ZephyrDrake3 votes

Ok... padding stats is NOT skillful and incredibly EASY.

T1 Zerenity1 votes

{quoted}

Ok... padding stats is NOT skillful and incredibly EASY.

combine kda with other variables such as Champaion Dealth Damage, Healing, cs/min, wards etc and you get a pretty accurate skill marker

IP Masquerena1 votes

I said this once and I'll say it again, "fair" is relative.

Just because you consider something unfair doesn't mean it is, or vice versa, you see it as fair doesn't mean it is.

I once gave this example: Say there's a random city race, anyone can enter regardless of age or whatever. Usain Bolt decides he wants to take a stab it, enters, and wins without a problem by such a huge margin it's not even a contest.

Was that race fair? Yes. It was, he was allowed to enter, he was allowed to play his best, he won. Would other people in that race see it as fair? No. Many wouldn't, it's Usain friggin Bolt, your beer belly may be able to outrun your neighbor, but there's no way in hell you outrun Usain.

Barely anyone complained and even now complains about MF, yet she's still the top dog of ADC with 52% wr and over 20% play rate. She looks fair, but statistically, she isn't, she just feels fair.

Now that you understand that "fair" is relative so it can't be taken in consideration with anything other than statistical numbers that can be seen, let's move to your "skill needs to be rewarded". Ok, how?

You say shooters have it, but that works there, not in Mobas. Unless you can pad your KDA by shooting team mates via friendly fire, you can't really prove you're good at shooters with anything other than big KDA. In Mobas it won't work, Dota tried to do it, and it proves why anything other than win or loss should never be taken in consideration.

First time it happened, your KDA and damage dealt were taken in consideration, so people picked Zeus, who's ult is basically a faster Karthus ult, and well, all they did was use it off cooldown and to KS (since it is instant), not help their team or care about winning. Scrubs who were supposed to be in like 1000 MMR (equivalent of Silver) were in 4k (at the time, Equivalent of Diamond) simply because the system saw them as skilled players, high KDA, high damage, etc but they would not even try to win, just pad their stats, if their team could win without them they got a huge boost, if not, they lost little to nothing.

The second time, it was found out that healing team mates boosts your MMR, and what did players do? Picked Oracle, bought nothing else except for mana potions and followed one team mate healing them constantly. How was that possible? Oracle's heal also damages the unit first, then heals over time for much more than it damaged, you can use it as a nuke on the enemy by purging the heal so they take only the damage, or on allies for the to recover more HP. Valve had to actually nuke all players found doing this from orbit to a point where their whole MMR was reset.

Now look at LoL at token farmers for those who want their M6 or M7. They won't care to win, just to get high stats because they will get rewarded regardless of win or lose.

Players show time and time again that if they can abuse something, they will, and the only way to make the system impossible to abuse is for it to only care about win or loss, nothing in between. You're good, you climb, you suck, you don't.

T1 Zerenity1 votes

[{quoted}](name=IP Masquerena,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rvyd4WgB,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2020-02-14T12:25:30.036+0000)

I said this once and I'll say it again, "fair" is relative.

Just because you consider something unfair doesn't mean it is, or vice versa, you see it as fair doesn't mean it is.

I once gave this example: Say there's a random city race, anyone can enter regardless of age or whatever. Usain Bolt decides he wants to take a stab it, enters, and wins without a problem by such a huge margin it's not even a contest.

Was that race fair? Yes. It was, he was allowed to enter, he was allowed to play his best, he won. Would other people in that race see it as fair? No. Many wouldn't, it's Usain friggin Bolt, your beer belly may be able to outrun your neighbor, but there's no way in hell you outrun Usain.

Barely anyone complained and even now complains about MF, yet she's still the top dog of ADC with 52% wr and over 20% play rate. She looks fair, but statistically, she isn't, she just feels fair.

Now that you understand that "fair" is relative so it can't be taken in consideration with anything other than statistical numbers that can be seen, let's move to your "skill needs to be rewarded". Ok, how?

You say shooters have it, but that works there, not in Mobas. Unless you can pad your KDA by shooting team mates via friendly fire, you can't really prove you're good at shooters with anything other than big KDA. In Mobas it won't work, Dota tried to do it, and it proves why anything other than win or loss should never be taken in consideration.

First time it happened, your KDA and damage dealt were taken in consideration, so people picked Zeus, who's ult is basically a faster Karthus ult, and well, all they did was use it off cooldown and to KS (since it is instant), not help their team or care about winning. Scrubs who were supposed to be in like 1000 MMR (equivalent of Silver) were in 4k (at the time, Equivalent of Diamond) simply because the system saw them as skilled players, high KDA, high damage, etc but they would not even try to win, just pad their stats, if their team could win without them they got a huge boost, if not, they lost little to nothing.

The second time, it was found out that healing team mates boosts your MMR, and what did players do? Picked Oracle, bought nothing else except for mana potions and followed one team mate healing them constantly. How was that possible? Oracle's heal also damages the unit first, then heals over time for much more than it damaged, you can use it as a nuke on the enemy by purging the heal so they take only the damage, or on allies for the to recover more HP. Valve had to actually nuke all players found doing this from orbit to a point where their whole MMR was reset.

Now look at LoL at token farmers for those who want their M6 or M7. They won't care to win, just to get high stats because they will get rewarded regardless of win or lose.

Players show time and time again that if they can abuse something, they will, and the only way to make the system impossible to abuse is for it to only care about win or loss, nothing in between. You're good, you climb, you suck, you don't.

Ehmmm dude, this part "Was that race fair? Yes. It was, he was allowed to enter, he was allowed to play his best, he won" is a non sequitur, cuz , youre not addressing in whose eyes the question's being asked from. if it was from Usain Bolt view he would say that the competition wasn't fair, that example you provided literally doesnt make sense. From an objective view, it'd also be viewed as being unfair, cuz society tend to favor fairness in terms of skill during sports competitions but also in the tech industry to drive innovation forward. Ok, I can see how the issues of exploitation would arise, but how I would counter that is that you assign different roles with differrent unique traits of increasing MMR. Such as support, id be something in terms of vision control, damage taken, healing, assists etc. For ADC, i'd be like Damage dealt to champions, farm etc, and all these things would only be included in the LP if you won the game. I fail to see how this is bad, and im not willing to waste more time on this topic as im just gonna quit lol cuz of reasons. Thank you for your input though

chipndip11 votes

[{quoted}](name=T1 Zerenity,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rvyd4WgB,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2020-02-16T01:20:42.604+0000)

Ehmmm dude, this part "Was that race fair? Yes. It was, he was allowed to enter, he was allowed to play his best, he won" is a non sequitur, cuz , youre not addressing in whose eyes the question's being asked from. if it was from Usain Bolt view he would say that the competition wasn't fair

  1. You don't get to speak for Usain Bolt to say if he'd think it's fair or not.

  2. For someone that calls people delusional, you're taking the "Takes one to know one" approach a bit too heavy handedly, based on your replies to everyone so far.

From an objective view, it'd also be viewed as being unfair, cuz society tend to favor fairness in terms of skill during sports competitions but also in the tech industry to drive innovation forward.

What does this have to do with literally anything? The race is objectively fair because there's nothing limiting Usain Bolt from entering, even if he's guaranteed to win. It's like being unranked and entering a Division 2 fighting game local tournament. If no one knows you're good, even if you'd wipe everyone, if THEY didn't stop you, THEY fucked up. That's not Usain Bolt's problem. It'd be "unfair" if they said "No Olympic Medalists allowed" and he still got to race.

So, in that same framing, sure this player you hate is trash and dragged your game down, but the system doesn't know how bad he is, so it's steadily dragging him down the ladder until it finds the spot where he isn't ruining everyone's games. Now, if this happens on a wide scale like it did last season, then the whole ladder gets fucked over, and that's important to note. However, you play at the skill level that the system starts people out at. That's no one's fault but your own. If you don't want to play with beginners, get better at the game.

Ok, I can see how the issues of exploitation would arise, but how I would counter that is that you assign different roles with differrent unique traits of increasing MMR. Such as support, id be something in terms of vision control, damage taken, healing, assists etc. For ADC, i'd be like Damage dealt to champions, farm etc, and all these things would only be included in the LP if you won the game. I fail to see how this is bad

Because people will, once again, go out of their way to abuse those few variables. If they only count when you win, then you've effectively changed nothing. Just admit you made a rage post in the heat of the moment.

and im not willing to waste more time on this topic as im just gonna quit lol cuz of reasons.

"Reasons". No one should have to make a college essay just to get you to realize you're fucking up.

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