"Lee Sin is very fun. Shitting on people is fun. But Lee Sin probably shouldnt just shit on people"

Puaru·3/17/2015, 9:52:34 PM·41 votes·3,840 views

starts shitting on people. Riot gets out the nerf bat. Gotta take care of the champ who has been shitting on people for 3 weeks before we get to the one that's been doing it for 3 years. They haven't even given people time to adjust to playing against a champion like her (because, by their own admission, they fucked up the jungle) and they already get the nerfs on PBE? What is really going on with the balance team? Why is it that gutting a champ and slowly building him up the trend now instead of getting it right the first time? Why push out reworks that the entire community tells you are horrible ideas (Veigar) then make your video sheepishly saying "Oh, maybe we went a little too far"?

I never once saw a series of patches that gut Psionic Storm, then slowly build it up, then gut it again.

You're next kid

54 Comments

ForgiveColour3/17/2015, 10:18:47 PM12 votes

60% winrate is balanced. You heard it here first guys

OhOkYea3/17/2015, 10:02:22 PM9 votes

so many other champs that need nerf bat than sej. She's not even close to OP compared to the likes of kat, vi, nid

Earthlord Jazz3/18/2015, 6:03:35 AM7 votes

I feel like the term "gut" is used too often. These are very slight nerfs in my opinion

YossarianSensei3/17/2015, 11:00:49 PM5 votes

Why do people hate Lee Sin so much?

I fking cry when I see him on my team because I know we're stuck with an InSec wannabe whereas the other team will actually have a jungler

He's less mobile than Vi, doesn't even do as much damage, and is pretty damn squishy. Inb4 'muh mana costs though' - when's the last time you ran out of mana on Vi/J4/Sej?

whiteboywalking3/17/2015, 9:56:52 PM4 votes

a play a good amount amount of lee sin and honestly i feel he is pretty well balanced his good early game is offset with his garbage late game

Truthteller3/17/2015, 10:19:31 PM3 votes

Sejauni is utterly broken because she has non-existent mana costs. Get it?

ThePlasticSpork3/18/2015, 7:07:08 AM3 votes

If you think the changes up on the PBE are them gutting Sejuani, I'm curious what you would call what Riot did to Lee Sin's competition a while ago (namely, Kha'Zix and Elise).

Seriously, Sejuani is still going to be strong after these changes, and it wouldn't surprise me if she still continued to have the highest winrate afterwards as well. Hell, Sejuani is probably still going to be better than Lee Sin after these changes pretty much everywhere that's not competitive play. She's a huge outlier right now - she has both a high winrate, high pickrate, and a steadily escalating banrate across all ELOs and across all regions. That's a pretty good indicator that a champion is legitimately and undoubtedly overpowered.

Even if Sejuani were to somehow be completely and utterly annihilated by these lovetap changes, the jungle would still be several times more diverse than it used to be. Now you can jungle Nautilus, Volibear, Amumu, Sion, Cho'Gath, and Skarner in addition to the previously viable junglers, which is over double what the jungle champion pool was previously (Lee Sin, Jarvan, Vi, Rek'Sai) even without Sejuani. Lee Sin isn't even close to being a top tier jungler right now - his kit is still grotesquely overloaded, but I'd say until his hopefully inevitable rework, he's fairly under control.

Guy Fox Teemo3/18/2015, 5:51:07 AM1 votes

Idk, sejuani brings more to a team then lee sin every well, good ganks, good clears, stay's relatively healthy in lane, tanky, mostly aoe, 100% of the time i'd rather have a sej then a lee just because she does more then lee. Lee's more of an annoying champ then an actual OP one, people just get frustrated playing against him and immediately think he's OP.

Strawberrycocoa3/17/2015, 10:02:00 PM1 votes

Now that I think about it, I started playing again a couple weeks ago, and I don't think I've seen a lot of Lee. God damn, maybe he's finally disappearing forever.

Squeeeeeeeeeeee

Next3/18/2015, 5:11:22 PM1 votes

so they are taking the fun out of lee sin basically. great game

Raptamei3/18/2015, 5:28:41 PM1 votes

{quoted}

I never once saw a series of patches that gut Psionic Storm, then slowly build it up, then gut it again.

Starcraft is a competitive game though.

Crate of Cobras3/18/2015, 11:05:27 PM1 votes

Lol, I hope they do that.

I hope they nerf Sejuani

Then I hope they nerf Amumu

Then I hope they nerf Nautilus

Then I hope they finally sink into complete idiocy and nerf Zac

I hope they make all of these nerfs consecutively, getting more and more heinous, instead of addressing the actual problem:

Cinderhulk is underpriced for what it does.

Hellish Prophecy3/19/2015, 12:11:01 AM1 votes

The bullshit meter will be high if they turn towards Amumu next....

GaleWinUnleashed3/19/2015, 12:12:39 AM1 votes

Sej has exactly one nerf on the PBE right now; a reduction of 2% max health damage to the on-hit damage from W. Ignore the R "nerf", it only affects her is she misses her ult.

Kuroi863/19/2015, 12:24:55 AM1 votes

Lee Sin is very fun. Shitting on people is fun. But Lee Sin probably shouldnt just shit on people

And Riot has made it clear they want to do something about it. The question is how to nerf them without giving them the Eve treatment.

So we can do anything we want to the jungle and you're going to pick Lee Sin almost every time unless we make it so that he can't jungle.

Here we have the major issue. Lee Sin is no where near as strong as he once was. People still pick him though because he's still Lee Sin.

because, by their own admission, they fucked up the jungle

And are working on fixing that.

Two, I think we have not done a good job in providing new options and new depth and new ways to succeed in the jungle that are either exciting or understandable at all, or even available.

This is what we need, Riot has an idea of how to give junglers something other than ganks to have impact, so the question is where the point.

They haven't even given people time to adjust to playing against a champion like her and they already get the nerfs on PBE?

According to most Sej mains I've seen, she's been strong for a long time and these nerfs will hardly even be noticable.

Why push out reworks that the entire community tells you are horrible ideas (Veigar)

The only people saying it was a horrible idea was point and click mains that think being able to stun an opponent with no warning is fair. Veigar is undertuned and I'm thankful Riot is still watching and working on him. His Q is awesome, his E is a lot healthier, but still needs work and his W is in need of a major overhaul. All in all, Veigar is on his way to being a much better champ than he ever was, Riot just needs to keep on working on the E and W interaction.

Big Bang Bob3/19/2015, 3:38:54 AM1 votes

I can't ever see why Lee is OP? I though you guys might be right for a second when he was destroying me with his dragon kick, except then I realized he was fed. Can someone tell me what this guy is doing to you, because the most he usually does to me is kick me out of danger.

(No! I see you about to downvote. Don't do that! This is a question!)

IcyPepper3/17/2015, 10:43:52 PM1 votes

I haven't checked her nerfs yet, but it better be solely for her W and nothing else. That's where the issue is, since it scales off HP and therefore benefits a bit too much from cinderhulk. If they make changes so her damage output was relatively the same before, and keep her improved tankiness, I'd consider it a fair nerf for everyone.

Edit: Okay the changes to her ult is bullshit. They didn't even change the scaling of her W!

Starlighte3/19/2015, 3:44:39 AM1 votes

When Riot came for the Irelia mains, I remained silent; I was not a Irelia main.

When they locked up the Darius mains, I remained silent; I was not a Darius main.

When they came for the Veigar mains, I did not speak out; I was not a Veigar main.

When they came for the Sejuani mains, I remained silent; I wasn't a Sejuani main.

When they came for LeeSin , and nerfed him into the abyss, even against public outcry.

One can only hope this is how it will go down in the history books...

Weegeechai3/18/2015, 4:19:53 AM1 votes

Lee Sin is a good duelist. It's like asking why you cant win Leblanc with many mid laners. It's because you weren't meant to win lane, NOT loosing is already adequate as you scale into late game harder.