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Yasuo: Seriously Riot?

Muahahahha··3 votes·1,414 views

/start rant/

Let me start by saying i was a Karma main before riot reworked her (coffDeletedcoff) They effectively gave her no exposure, looked at her low play rate, and the devs truly hate actual support and healing because its not fun for "everyone else", so they fucking made her an ap mid, as part of the "ap mid is now support" push, and completely deleted her, all the other reworks have the player doing the same things, kat throws knives, ww suppresses and tanks, etc etc etc, karma no longer is about positioning, timing, and trade offs, shes just an ap mid with cc, and basically a gimped lux

I was so turned off from lol i stopped playing at that rework, at the same time the (quite frankly redundant) Lissandra was released in 2013

I returned when Kled was released, and i noticed one thing: Every game with a Yasuo, was buttfucking retarded.

I will admit i tried playing Bruiser Singed bot, because i didn't know how changed the meta was, but after a while i came to the understanding, "Their Yasuo will rape you all, Your teams Yasuo will fucking be raped" No game with yasuo is unblemished

So i did the normal thing and looked for counter-play, and counter picks; There aint fucking none, the only way yasuo is bad is if the player is bad. A pro even said that he only loses if he goes full ham (fml i can't find the quote)

I looked at threads from up to 3-2 YEARS AGO that where eloquent and articulated about the problems, and nothing they said has changed

http://forums.euw.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=1562346&page=1 -He is impossible to play against with any skillshot champ, ranged adc, or even another fucking melee adc -his shield is bigger than any support could provide, always up if yas is moving (so always up), and at no cost

http://forums.euw.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=1578545 -his "negatives" are non existent, and the skill cap argument is absurd

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/nqA4lEna-lets-talk-about-whats-actually-wrong-with-yasuo -spaghetti code makes wind-wall a brainless safety preserving ability

I played one game where i thought i had finally figured out how to handle him, he had less money than our alistar support,. At the 20 min mark he says "I fixed my internet". He then proceeded to faceroll his keyboard, and wipe out our team. He ended up with more money than our Sion who had won his lane, had 200 minions and 10 kills and i'm not the only one who's seen this, because he basically only needs one item to be a permanent threat https://boards.euw.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/champions-gameplay-en/iwcWs5qx-so-i-went-801-vs-yasuo-last-friday?sort_type=recent

The most baffling Thing to me is how yas has virtually been unchanged in 3 years, when everyone and their mother knows his effect on games. Looking through the patch history, its all bug fixes, and sometimes improvement in his favor, but virtually no actual nerfs

/end rant/

and The problem can be stated very simply: He is a complete upgrade of Yi in every way. 1 Yi: mana & cd dependant Yas: RESOURCELESS, and virtualy no cd 2 Yi: second strike every 3rd, and some minor true damage Yas: DOUBLE CRITS (wtf) 3 Yi: channeled heal, on an ability Yas: free shield, (bigger than any support can provide), for simply moving, activates automatically on opponent damage, SECOND PASSIVE 4 Yi: alpha strike, long cd, only hits a few enemies Yas: A DASH FOR EVERY ENEMY IN LANE 5 Yi: ... Yas: a free, fast moving, huge CC that knocks up, he gets for hitting minions 6 Yi: ... Yas: A FUCKING SHEILD BRAUM SHOULD HAVE, THAT BLOCKS SOME ABILITIES THAT AREN'T EVEN FUCKING PROJECTILES 7 Yi: "can't be slowed" ult, MS,AS and some CDR Yas: TELEPORT AND INVULNERABLE, WITH ANY KNOCK UPS ONTO AN ENEMY, HITS MULTIPLE ENEMIES

This was basically if a fan wanted to make a more broken Yi, but if a fan suggested this it would have been shot down instantly. Hell i've seen yas in every lane be a threat everywhere, how is that not the prime indicator something is wrong?

This is why he is so warping in lower elo, and everyone shuts him down in high elo asap In high elo there is actual communication and organization, and the fucking jungler will camp Yas's sorry ass

and none of this even address how toxic the players attracted to yas are, and that accounts for the apparent "Their Yasuo will rape you all, Your teams Yasuo will fucking be raped" effect. when your teammates fails with him they flame and feed. when the opponent yas kills you you can't do anything

and my issue basically comes to this: If they can fucking delete a less than year old champion like karma, only because it wasn't played enough, then how the hell has this game warping champion not even been reworked in 3 years?

24 Comments

Starcraft243ver3 votes

Yet he doesnt have a very good winrate and isnt the first to be banned at diam+ level.

So maybe he's a bit like yi, a noobstomper, but when you know how to play vs him and focus him down, he's not that great.

SEKAI1 votes

{quoted}

Yet he doesnt have a very good winrate and isnt the first to be banned at diam+ level.

So maybe he's a bit like yi, a noobstomper, but when you know how to play vs him and focus him down, he's not that great.

Because he doesn't get instabanned in Diamond+ doesn't suddenly make him "not that great", nor does it mean he's a pubstomper. It just means there are other bigger BS to fry on the roster that the lower elo may not be aware of due to 1 reason or the other.

Klergon3 votes

Hmm...

I have to say, it's possible to counter Yasuo. You just have to know what you're doing. If he were completely broken, don't you think he'd be the go-to pick/ban for LCS? That being said, he could take some nerfs to deal with him. I recently read in a patch notes (7.10 or 7.11, I forget which) that Riot slightly nerfed/changed Azir so that he'd have counterplay even when played right. Something along those lines would be helpful in Yasuo's case, as I find that no matter how poorly he has done in lane against me, no matter which champs I play against him, there comes a time in every game where his power becomes virtually unstoppable. Could be facerolling him as Swain 2 minutes ago, once he gets his items and cds, he's got a very high power spike. Maybe if Riot toned down the power spike, and lifted his early game a bit, then there would be a solution?

But that might just be me. Thanks for your time!

IronwallJackson3 votes

Azir got those sorts of nerfs because Azir's kit gives him so many different strengths that he crowds out other mage picks in high elo play just by existing. When he was strong, he made virtually all other choices irrelevant in pro play. One might argue that Yasuo also has a lot of strengths, but not to the same extent that Azir used to/currently does.

Klergon2 votes

Hmm, this is true; however, in the same way that Azir's kit really only gave him the ability to crowd out other mages in higher elo, Yasuo's kit gives him the ability to crowd out virtually all other picks in low elo since players don't know how to deal with him. However, that being said your point is still valid; Azir was so strong that he had no counterplay, while Yasuo is only so strong because low elo players (like myself) don't understand, or rarerly understand, what his counterplay is. But, as I said in my original comment, Yasuo isn't as broken as some people think, and more broken than other people think. Honestly, I think that the best way to counter a Yasuo is with good team coordination and chain CC; however, at lower elos or in norms, this is very hard to pull off, and I get tired of picking Sion top 50% of the time because we need a good source of CC. But maybe that's just me, who knows. Thanks for taking the time to write a well articulated response!

Shahamut3 votes

Yasuo is pretty easy to beat most of the time. I don't know what you are talking about... Also:

V 4.1

NEW EFFECT: 10% reduced damage applies to Statikk Shiv item.png Statikk Shiv

V 4.2

Way of the Wanderer -Flow generation reduced to 1 stack per 46 units from 1 per 40.

Wind Wall -Passive bonus Flow stacks per Sweeping Blade cast reduced to 3 / 6 / 9 / 12 / 15 from 4 / 8 / 12 / 16 / 20.

Last Breath -Range reduced to 1200 from 1300.

V 4.3

Way of the Wanderer -Shield strength reduced to 60 - 470 (based on level) from 60 - 690 (based on level). -Shield duration reduced to 1.5 seconds from 2.

V 4.11

Sweeping Blade -Maximum bonus damage reduced to 50% at 2 stacks from 100% at 4.

V 4.13

Way of the Wanderer -Shield duration reduced to 1 second from 1.5.

Steel Tempest -Minimum cast time increased to 0.18 seconds from 0.13. -Cooldown reduction from attack speed reduced

Wind Wall -REMOVED: Passive bonus Flow per Sweeping Blade cast.

V 4.18

STATS -Base** health lowered** to 462 from 512. -Base** movement speed lowered** to 340 from 350.

Thats just the nerfs in season 4...

There is one other nerf in season 5

and there are 4 more nerfs since then till now.

I can see how you would think that he has been largely untouched...

Muahahahha1 votes

I can see how you would think that he has been largely untouched... you mean can't

also shifting numbers does not address any of the comparisons, and if you think those nerfs made any difference you're lying

6 free dashes per wave, still makes him impossible for a mid to lane against, a free massive shield for moving and a impenetrable wall wastes any counter play ability, and his ult still works of any ability knockup

and remember i only learned about him AFTER all the nerfs, and you just listed all the minor things, and didnt associate them with any of the issues bought up

please tell me how shifting any numbers around deals with any of these core problems

seriously i have no problems with Yi because there is obvious counter-play, my fucking asshole clenches when a yas shows up, because he will either rape everyone, or get everyone raped

Shahamut2 votes

also shifting numbers does not address any of the comparisons, and if you think those nerfs made any difference you're lying

Those werent number "shifts" those were NERFS. Straight up number LOSSES. Many of which apply to his "Dashes" and his "Shield". The most recent nerf hits his lane pressure by not letting Yasuo hold on to his Q stacks for more than 6 seconds. A 4 second loss is a huge nerf.

6 free dashes per wave, still makes him impossible for a mid to lane against

Simply not true. I can think of at least 3 champs off the top of my head (mages) who can easily handle Yasuo: Annie, Morgana, and Malzahar. The thing about Yasuo's dashes though is that they are VERY predictable. Its always a fixed distance, and always through a target, meaning if you track his positioning, (you do WATCH your lane opponent don't you??) the direction and distance he can dash is pretty easy to read.

a free massive shield for moving

That is easily broken by an auto attack and won't last longer than one second after use. He has low base stats, he needs windows to play as much as his opponents do. Also, Malzahar gets a better shield and doesn't even have to move to get it. He just has to not take damage. AND his blocks cc. Combine that with point and click MASSIVE DOT and VOID SPAM, and a ranged aoe SILENCE?! OMG (see what I did there?)

impenetrable wall wastes any counter play ability

This is not true, and has been disproven over and over again... The only thing (IMHO) about windwall that needs a change is it needs a set size/duration. It doesn't need to be bigger than rank 2 or 3, and its duration should not exceed 3 seconds... That would match a morgana snare. Wind wall doesn't move to block your damage, if he casts it, back up and make him have to come through it to damage you. If he is running, walk through it. Team fight? side step. Still not enough? Use non-projectile aoe Spells, like Malz Q, Annie W, Syndra Q, etc, etc, etc. There is plenty of ways to play around this ability. Frustrating? Yes! So is vlaad pool, and fizz troll pole... and don't get me started on caitlyns traps :P

his ult still works of any ability knockup

Any ALLIED ability knock-up. OMG he can have synergy. Like a billion other abilities that can combo cc. Like Jhin W, any allied damage works. His ult also puts his squishy but right in the middle of teamfights.

i only learned about him AFTER all the nerfs

This doesn't change anything or add to your argument.

and you just listed all the minor things, and didnt associate them with any of the issues bought up

I apologize for respecting you as an intellectual...? I didnt think I would have to spell it out for you.

please tell me how shifting any numbers around deals with any of these core problems

The "core problems" that you bring up are that he "has a kit". You address everything in his kit as a problem, without addressing its inherent weaknesses. You don't evaluate and argue, you cry. I would gladly get into games with you to show you how to beat a Yasuo. Does Yasuo have outplay potential? Sure. Is he invincible? Far from it. Overpowered? no. If he was, he would be LCS pick/ban, like when Tri-force still gave crit.

because he will either rape everyone, or get everyone raped

This is not only an obvious case of memory bias, but also evidence against 2 major arguments brought against Yasuo: A) "He's a brain dead/ brainless champion. Takes no skill." and B) "He is OP. Lacks counterplay."

If one or both of these statements were true, the case where he is either getting crapped on hard or owning everyone would not exist. It would just be the latter.

If you want to have a serious discussion about champion strengths/weaknesses, try to be less biased in your argumentation.

SirTeemoMushroom2 votes

long story short : many people play yasuo .. and karma is trash ? ok

Jorencice2 votes

What's funny is Yi can destroy yasou 1v1.

...yes that's all I took from this thread.

Avienal2 votes

{quoted}

What's funny is Yi can destroy yasou 1v1. It h ...yes that's all I took from this thread.

Mainly because the thing about Yasuo is alot of his shenigans are about juking range and poke champions which make up the majority of mid lane picks. Thats why a champion like Lissandra can utterly dumpster Yasuo because she's a engager type of midlaner then your simple harass from afar mage.

{quoted}

Yet he doesnt have a very good winrate and isnt the first to be banned at diam+ level.

So maybe he's a bit like yi, a noobstomper, but when you know how to play vs him and focus him down, he's not that great.

Basically just that, his logic is just fighting straight up builders who don't do things like adjust build paths to counter laning opponents and junglers. Which if both the jungler and mid laner are AP champions, you DEFINITELY want that bit of item 1033 to shut down any M pen they have early on and let you survive ganks better. It somewhat helps they curved hp stacking builds a bit and made a few items have higher resistance values which can end up with alot for damage reduced then soaking up 75 dmg with 'hp itself'.

He could still use some nerfs to restrict his 'high ceiling' a bit and dissuade 'nooblets' from picking him up over a much safer pick like Zed Brand TwistedFate Ziggs Zilean Viktor and so on. Obviously a good deal of them are AP but they tend to have kits that aren't as edgelord'ie, but can do big damage numbers with a bit of more 'leeway' on the items they build then what is basically Yasuo 's one build pathway for the first 2 to 3 items almost every single match.

[slayer-pantheon-popcorn]

Its just the typical mix of he gets too much hype when he should really have as much of a pick rate as any other mid-high tier mid laner with the weaknesses needing to be alot more clear cut then they currently are with the blurred lines.

SEKAI2 votes

{quoted}

What's funny is Yi can destroy yasou 1v1.

...yes that's all I took from this thread.

Only when there is no minion wave around, as in they're literally 1v1 in a cage-fight setting. Otherwise Yas will juke Yi dead.

It's more about who can bait the other into fighting in their win condition; and obviously, the default lane setting favours and is what Yas wins Yi with, while Yi has to find a way to bait Yasuo into the jungle/river (or anywhere without minion waves and the like that allows the jukes, just fight out in the open) in order to win.

Jorencice2 votes

You realize yasou is doing 0 damage if he's just dashing around the minions right?

And that you can't dodge basic attacks or anything else in Yis kit as his Q is targeted and the rest of his damage is unjukeable auto attacks.

I honestly think yi is fast enough to keep up yasou even while he's dashing about also.

I've never understood why people think his dashing is strong.

If I'm mid against him and he's dashing about I just flat out ignore him and keep farming.

It's so choreographed that chos Q is harder to dodge than to punish a dashing yasou.

SEKAI1 votes

{quoted}

You realize yasou is doing 0 damage if he's just dashing around the minions right?

And that you can't dodge basic attacks or anything else in Yis kit as his Q is targeted and the rest of his damage is unjukeable auto attacks.

I honestly think yi is fast enough to keep up yasou even while he's dashing about also.

I've never understood why people think his dashing is strong.

If I'm mid against him and he's dashing about I just flat out ignore him and keep farming.

It's so choreographed that chos Q is harder to dodge than to punish a dashing yasou.

You do realise the point of dashing is so that Yasuo can exercise his greatest strength against extreme melee champs, ie the range/poke/kite, right?

When Yas is dashing around, Yi can't hit him, but Yas can. Alpha Strike's CD is nearly 20 seconds in early levels (18-14 second over 5 spell levels) if he can't hit things to reduce the CD, and even if you can that's still quite long, hence generally you at best dodge 1 nado and that is it for that trade, meanwhile Yasuo can just spam E to get away from Yi while spamming Q to poke Yi down if there is a minion wave. This is especially true since Yas's dash is fixed-range, so he only has to worry about his dash angle, the range is always there.

Obviously, Yi doesn't start the game as lvl 6 and neither does Yasuo (which I think you're confusing about that given that you claim "yi should be fast enough", no he isn't pre-6), and laning phase mostly ends by lvl 6 anyway and thus the discussion pretty much ends as soon as or right after they reach 6.

That's precisely why pragmatically speaking, Yi can not win against Yasuo in minion waves, assuming both fighters know what they're doing. Yi has to find a way to duel Yasuo with no targets for him to dash to and juke around with, so that Yi can nail him down and kill him. That's how the fight works out between the 2. Yi kills Yasuo in a face-off, but Yasuo doesn't do face-offs in lane (at least not until he gets fed).

sepiormon2 votes

Here's the thing, I like playing Yi way more than I like to play Yasuo, especially against Yasuo.

Yasuo's strengths lie in his ability to zone, CC and burst his enemies. If you cannot land hurricanes or get close to dash q, you are useless. Sure as Yasuo you stack attacks speed just like YI, sure you have double crit, but you also CC yourself every time you press q, and there's no animation cancels like with Yi or Riven.

Yi's strength relies on sticking, bursting and sustaining on the enemies. Yi has no trouble with AOE or projectiles since he can alpha which is both a gap closer and a dodge. Yi doesn't give a fuck. Yasuo needs the crit chance buff. Yi doesn't. If Yi didn't have mana, he would be even more OP than Yasuo ever was.

Yi actually has a better time in team fights than Yasuo, so long as the enemy thinks about their positioning even a little. Yi doesn't need the silly dash, double crit or WW to do wipe a team.

you can counter both of these champions the same way, have a tank on your team that dedicates to focusing his hard CC onto whoever. Riot doesn't balance things on an individual level. Unless you are going to out-damage the enemy team straight up, you NEED a tank. AD assassins are balanced on CC, mages are balanced on cool-downs, ADC's are balanced on HP, Tanks are balanced on CC. Unless the base damage is game-breaking, its not broken.

5050BS2 votes

{quoted}

Here's the thing, I like playing Yi way more than I like to play Yasuo, especially against Yasuo.

Yasuo's strengths lie in his ability to zone, CC and burst his enemies. If you cannot land hurricanes or get close to dash q, you are useless. Sure as Yasuo you stack attacks speed just like YI, sure you have double crit, but you also CC yourself every time you press q, and there's no animation cancels like with Yi or Riven.

Yi's strength relies on sticking, bursting and sustaining on the enemies. Yi has no trouble with AOE or projectiles since he can alpha which is both a gap closer and a dodge. Yi doesn't give a fuck. Yasuo needs the crit chance buff. Yi doesn't. If Yi didn't have mana, he would be even more OP than Yasuo ever was.

Yi actually has a better time in team fights than Yasuo, so long as the enemy thinks about their positioning even a little. Yi doesn't need the silly dash, double crit or WW to do wipe a team.

you can counter both of these champions the same way, have a tank on your team that dedicates to focusing his hard CC onto whoever. Riot doesn't balance things on an individual level. Unless you are going to out-damage the enemy team straight up, you NEED a tank. AD assassins are balanced on CC, mages are balanced on cool-downs, ADC's are balanced on HP, Tanks are balanced on CC. Unless the base damage is game-breaking, its not broken.

Sure ADC are balanced on HP and yet get 300+ heals off one AA with how LifeSteal is thrown on EVERYTHING and has not diminishing returned.

5050BS1 votes

{quoted}

Here's the thing, I like playing Yi way more than I like to play Yasuo, especially against Yasuo.

Yasuo's strengths lie in his ability to zone, CC and burst his enemies. If you cannot land hurricanes or get close to dash q, you are useless. Sure as Yasuo you stack attacks speed just like YI, sure you have double crit, but you also CC yourself every time you press q, and there's no animation cancels like with Yi or Riven.

Yi's strength relies on sticking, bursting and sustaining on the enemies. Yi has no trouble with AOE or projectiles since he can alpha which is both a gap closer and a dodge. Yi doesn't give a fuck. Yasuo needs the crit chance buff. Yi doesn't. If Yi didn't have mana, he would be even more OP than Yasuo ever was.

Yi actually has a better time in team fights than Yasuo, so long as the enemy thinks about their positioning even a little. Yi doesn't need the silly dash, double crit or WW to do wipe a team.

you can counter both of these champions the same way, have a tank on your team that dedicates to focusing his hard CC onto whoever. Riot doesn't balance things on an individual level. Unless you are going to out-damage the enemy team straight up, you NEED a tank. AD assassins are balanced on CC, mages are balanced on cool-downs, ADC's are balanced on HP, Tanks are balanced on CC. Unless the base damage is game-breaking, its not broken.

Sure ADC are balanced on HP and yet get 300+ heals off one AA with how LifeSteal is thrown on EVERYTHING and has not diminishing returned.

sepiormon1 votes

As I said, you NEED a tank. If you cannot CC or straight up kill a late game ADC, you WILL lose.

5050BS2 votes

I half agree with you. Any good Yasuo will mop the floor most of the time. He is OP and needs a lot of nerfs. This is the same with Lee and Riven.

As for counters Im not a very good (but not bad) Xin Zhao and if I mid and Yasuo is mid I will win most of the time.

Xin counters Yasuo a lot.

Yaśuo Main1 votes

Any good Yasuo will mop the floor most of the time.

Yes, you got my vote.

He is OP and needs a lot of nerfs

You lost it. He scales on skill, so your first point got my vote then you viewed it wrong.

Muahahahha1 votes

He scales on skill

Yaśuo Main

http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/laughing-tom-cruise/photos

Yaśuo Main1 votes

broken picture but wp lol

Muahahahha1 votes

Its not just a picture Its the repository of that type of picture

meta meme

abca982 votes

Well, welcome back. Yes, Yasuo is a fucking disgrace for the game, he is annoying in every possible way, and in low elo everyone can use him and cause a massacre. And if you are a mage or an adc, his kit is basically a "FUCK YOU". But hey, you just came when 10 bans were added :D

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