Everyone talking about Assassins, Let's talk about tanks.

CullMeMaybe·Feb 13, 2016·10 votes·2,248 views

I feel like it shouldn't even need to be said, tanks should not be able to 1v1 a fed carry champ. Tanks should be there to absorb damage for their team allowing their carries to do what they have to. They should not be able to out damage a Trynd/Riven/Yasuo/Leblanc/Syndra just to name a few and still remain at full HP. This is completely absurd. Is it really that hard to fix because I have a seemingly excellent idea which wouldn't be too hard at all!

ADD DAMAGE DEBUFF PASSIVES TO TANK ITEMS![slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

66 Comments

LankPantsFeb 13, 20164 votes

ADD DAMAGE DEBUFF PASSIVES TO TANK ITEMS!

Creating a group of items that all do the same thing is assuming that all the champs who use said items do the same thing. This is inherently untrue of tanks.

Tanks and Tanky champs have a diverse range of playstyles, Sejuani is completely different to Ramus, who is completely different to Malphite, who is completely different to Shyvana ect. Pigeonholing all tank items into specific de-buff items would only favour support tanks and maybe Singed. Bruisers, Off-Tanks (think Sej/Amumu/Zac) and Juggernauts would all suffer if a change like this goes through.

Tanks should be there to absorb damage for their team allowing their carries to do what they have to.

This is a very limited view of what a tank is and it seems to assume that all tanks and based on your comments even tanky champs are support tanks. Most tanks aren't support tanks.

The best way to think of how tanks are balanced is to imagine a triangle, at the corners of that triangle put the words "Durability", "Damage" and "CC". Bear in mind these traits are relative to other tanks, so when I say something like Sejuani has low durability it means that compared to other tanks her durability is low, not compared to someone like Yi.

Most tanks have strengths in two areas of this triangle whilst lacking in another. This can be divided down the class lines of the 3 main types of tanks I mentioned before. Support tanks are tanky with strong CC but lack damage, Off Tanks are high in damage with good CC but have less durability than other tanks, Juggernauts are tanky with high damage but lack CC, since CC is the defining feature of tanks this also makes Juggernauts not tanks, although they still fit on this triangle well.

Then there's also a few fringe cases like Maokai whos only real exceptional trait is CC, but he also brings above average damage and durability without excelling at either and Singed who's strong in all three traits but has other clear weaknesses mostly in his complete lack of any mobility or reach.

These clear differences between tanky champs are why tank items need to be more diverse, but also why just adding damage debuffs to tank items really won't be positive.

HongChongDongFeb 13, 20163 votes

This has been explained 100's of times but people refuse to listen.

Tanks do not deal TONS OF DAMAGE.

Tanks have high base damage but in comparison don't deal jack squat to champions meant to deal damage, but squishy champions are squishy for a reason, and that reason is because they only have base defenses so without any defenses to negate base damage it looks like alot when in reality it's shit.

If you want to bring down tanks and juggernaughts you need a form of constant damage AKA adc's so grab yourself a good adc buddy and your problems should be solved

CullMeMaybeFeb 13, 20161 votes

{quoted}

This has been explained 100's of times but people refuse to listen.

Tanks do not deal TONS OF DAMAGE.

Tanks have high base damage but in comparison don't deal jack squat to champions meant to deal damage, but squishy champions are squishy for a reason, and that reason is because they only have base defenses so without any defenses to negate base damage it looks like alot when in reality it's shit.

If you want to bring down tanks and juggernaughts you need a form of constant damage AKA adc's so grab yourself a good adc buddy and your problems should be solved

Yeah but remember that time you went 3-0 in lane trynd vs malph then he came back with chain vest and ruby crystal and destroyed you? I do.

Critmaster GarenFeb 13, 20162 votes

{quoted}

Yeah but remember that time you went 3-0 in lane trynd vs malph then he came back with chain vest and ruby crystal and destroyed you? I do.

malph and rammus specifically counter auto attacking, ad scaling champs. of course theyre gonna shit on them.

EndlessSorcererFeb 13, 20163 votes

Why shouldn't tanks be able to 1v1 carries? Carries are building offensive stats to increase their damage and tanks are building defensive stats to increase their durability, which somewhat cancel one another out.

{quoted}

I'm talking Mundo,Malphite,Garen,Shyvanna,Rammus (and more) building FULL TANK and out damaging while not taking any damage.

Mundo, Garen and Shyvana are all fighters, not tanks. They have low utility (and mobility) and in exchange their kits provide a signficiant amount of damage.

Tanks are primarily CC/utility-oriented. They are champions like Sion, Nautilus, Maokai, and Sejuani.

Is it really that hard to fix because I have a seemingly excellent idea which wouldn't be too hard at all!

ADD DAMAGE DEBUFF PASSIVES TO TANK ITEMS!

This is, quite frankly, a really stupid idea. There is no item in the game which weakens you for purchasing it nor should their be.

Yeah but remember that time you went 3-0 in lane trynd vs malph then he came back with chain vest and ruby crystal and destroyed you? I do.

Going 3-0 in lane alone means nothing if you haven't built an advantage in other areas. If you don't have a CS advantage, and item advantage and/or a level advantage after killing them three times, then you aren't any stronger than they are.

In addition, Malphite counters Tryndamere specifically since his attack speed slow cripples the damage output of pure autoattackers (which Tryndamere is), he itemizes specifically against physical damage (which Tryndamere deals), and he can kite you during your ultimate (using Q). Even if you were slightly ahead, his kit has enough advantages against Tryndamere specifically that he can still fight you.

CullMeMaybeFeb 13, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Why shouldn't tanks be able to 1v1 carries? Carries are building offensive stats to increase their damage and tanks are building defensive stats to increase their durability, which somewhat cancel one another out.

Mundo, Garen and Shyvana are all fighters, not tanks. They have low utility (and mobility) and in exchange their kits provide a signficiant amount of damage.

This is, quite frankly, a really stupid idea. There is no item in the game which weakens you for purchasing it nor should their be.

I def was not aware Mundo,Garen,Or shyv had low mobility and I added mundo because his slow and move speed increase. Shyvanna move speed increase, Garen move speed increase with armor buff. They all build full tank and shit on carries.

EndlessSorcererFeb 13, 20161 votes

Movement speed buffs are a form of mobility, but a weak one due to the prevalence of slows, inability to go over terrain, and CC blocking your path. Most champions with only a movement speed buff can easily be kited to death by a vast number of champions (i.e. Vayne, Kalista, Gnar, Ahri, Leblanc, Azir, Anivia, and many more) even before factoring in Rylai's Crystal Scepter and Frozen Mallet.

BluePolarizerFeb 13, 20163 votes

To the contrary. Being more tanky is better in 1v1s as long as both players have equal gold worth in their items.

That's why an ADC with a Ninja Tabi and an otherwise regular ADC build is very likely to win against another ADC of similar kit with Berserker Greaves and other items the same.

QuephaFeb 13, 20163 votes

{quoted}

Tanks should be there to absorb damage for their team allowing their carries to do what they have to.

This isn't WoW, there's no way to trick player AI and draw aggro for an extended period of time. Tanks need a reason to be attacked and in some cases that is due to damage potential.

alasarcherFeb 13, 20162 votes

When you say tanks, do u mean real tanks like Amumu, Rammus, Shen? Or do you mean Juggernauts or Bruisers like Wukong or Darius?

BLACK REALM GODFeb 13, 20162 votes

Bro he means t45s and Abrams. Panzers and tigers oh my.

Michael SykesFeb 13, 20161 votes

{quoted}

When you say tanks, do u mean real tanks like Amumu, Rammus, Shen? Or do you mean Juggernauts or Bruisers like Wukong or Darius?

Fun Fact: In my first game vs the reworked shen he did the most damage and tanked the most damage....

alasarcherFeb 13, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Michael Sykes,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rArMlhau,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2016-02-13T11:59:17.420+0000)

Fun Fact: In my first game vs the reworked shen he did the most damage and tanked the most damage....

Did he have thornmail? And did u have AD team that relies on basics?

Michael SykesFeb 13, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Did he have thornmail? And did u have AD team that relies on basics?

yep, also Titanic Hydra. But it is sick how he dealt more dmg than this graves...

http://matchhistory.euw.leagueoflegends.com/de/#match-details/EUW1/2498464914/219913548?tab=stats

CullMeMaybeFeb 13, 20162 votes

I'm talking Mundo,Malphite,Garen,Shyvanna,Rammus (and more) building FULL TANK and out damaging while not taking any damage.

LankPantsFeb 13, 20165 votes

Only two of the champions you mentioned are tanks. Ramus is not outdamaging anyone right now unless you're playing a 4 AD comp and letting him stack 700 armour. Malphite admittedly has some problems but they're problems of Malphite, not the tank class as a whole.

As for Mundo, Garen and Shyvana they're not tanks, they're bruisers. Between the 3 of them they have 1 hard CC and that's Shyvana's shitty knockback. If these 3 champs did no damage they'd be no reason to ever pick them over an actual tank, since they'd be durable but give you no reason to actually hit them.

Another thing about these champs is that they all deal significant sustained damage that's high enough to kill a carry somewhat quickly but takes a long time to kill a tank. These champs certainly aren't outdamaging carries since carries are more than capable of killing tanks. They're simply able to 1v1 a carry because that carry is squishy and the bruiser is tanky. Tanky champs with moderate damage tend to be very strong in 1v1s.

Weasel KenseiFeb 13, 20162 votes

Honestly if youre getting 1v1 defeated by tanks when you consider yourself "fed" then youre not really that fed, just ahead of your some of the opposition.

This notion that they should just be there to soak hits and do CC is asinine. Do you have any idea how ridiculous the top lane if two tanks were fighting each other but couldnt hurt each other would be? What about all the tank busting items in the game, ADCs who are ahead can 1v1 the enemy ADC, support, and probably the jungle and the mid. YOU want them destrying the tank also.

If youre "tanks shouldnt be a threat to ADCs" went through, then as soon as an enemy ADC was clearly ahead, everyone, not just the typical whiny losers that give up at first blood, EVERYONE would legitimately feel the match was over because... why am I even...

Tanks dont do that much damage.

Its not like they show up and delete you like a full combo Talon, Fizz, or Zed. Its not like youre getting 4 shotted by crits in 2 seconds by the enemy MF.

Tanks survive through lone ADC damage, and do their low to moderate damage, not outdamage LeBlanc, Yasuo, or Syndra, or any assassin/mage, if they do, they didnt build tank.

CullMeMaybeFeb 13, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Weasel Kensei,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rArMlhau,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2016-02-13T12:23:05.544+0000)

Honestly if youre getting 1v1 defeated by tanks when you consider yourself "fed" then youre not really that fed, just ahead of your some of the opposition.

This notion that they should just be there to soak hits and do CC is asinine. Do you have any idea how ridiculous the top lane if two tanks were fighting each other but couldnt hurt each other would be? What about all the tank busting items in the game, ADCs who are ahead can 1v1 the enemy ADC, support, and probably the jungle and the mid. YOU want them destrying the tank also.

If youre "tanks shouldnt be a threat to ADCs" went through, then as soon as an enemy ADC was clearly ahead, everyone, not just the typical whiny losers that give up at first blood, EVERYONE would legitimately feel the match was over because... why am I even...

Tanks dont do that much damage.

Its not like they show up and delete you like a full combo Talon, Fizz, or Zed. Its not like youre getting 4 shotted by crits in 2 seconds by the enemy MF.

Tanks survive through lone ADC damage, and do their low to moderate damage, not outdamage LeBlanc, Yasuo, or Syndra, or any assassin/mage, if they do, they didnt build tank.

Could you please explain to me how a Shyvanna with Banshees and Sunfire 2v1 a Zed who isn't behind and a J4? Continue to carry the game with the MOST damage while only building a bork as her last item?

RalanrFeb 13, 20162 votes

Because her kit is centered around damage.

And we also have factors missing. Was this a jungle Shyvana? If so then she had an attack speed item.

Did the two get caught out?

CullMeMaybeFeb 13, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Because her kit is centered around damage.

And we also have factors missing. Was this a jungle Shyvana? If so then she had an attack speed item.

Did the two get caught out?

Top nothing but tank items. Until Bork last item.

RalanrFeb 13, 20161 votes

Well her burnout ability i think has great synergy with sunfire cape.

The HeraIdFeb 13, 20162 votes

Garen/Dary = Juggernauts, they are meant to get to someone and murder them, how they work. Shyvanna is a fighter and because her E gives magic dmg based on % Max hp when you get hit by it, she is going to be doing quite a bit of dmg, but shhyv does really poorly against thinks like Blue Ez, Gragas Ults, Jannas.

Mundo...is mundo....

Rammus is countered in the EXACT same was a shyvana.

BLACK REALM GODFeb 13, 20161 votes

Just curious but... If mages have deathcap. Marksmen have infinity edge... Now assassins have duskblade... What do supports fighters and tanks have?

CullMeMaybeFeb 13, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=BLACK REALM GOD,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rArMlhau,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2016-02-13T10:11:13.499+0000)

Just curious but... If mages have deathcap. Marksmen have infinity edge... Now assassins have duskblade... What do supports fighters and tanks have?

Tanks are tanks man, they aren't supposed to deal TONS of damage, what they do is survive and provide cc. And when you add damage it really makes a carry feel almost useless when caught by one.

BLACK REALM GODFeb 13, 20163 votes

Okay? But how does that in any way shape or form answer my question? It doesn't. Thank you for trying.

CullMeMaybeFeb 13, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=BLACK REALM GOD,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rArMlhau,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2016-02-13T10:49:37.861+0000)

Okay? But how does that in any way shape or form answer my question? It doesn't. Thank you for trying.

Except I answered your question completely?

RalanrFeb 13, 20166 votes

All of the items he mentioned help those classes in their main stat, usually by multiplying them.

He didn't mean damage (though all other classes seem to be centered around that).

Hence you misunderstood his question.

BLACK REALM GODFeb 13, 20161 votes

This guy gets it. Nice job helping him out. I'm giving your post a thumbs up.

PennsFeb 13, 20161 votes

They have damage scaling with either HP or nothing at all but too high base damage for whatever reason.

BLACK REALM GODFeb 13, 20161 votes

I understand why base damage is high. Its for wave clear when they are either sacrificing items with damage for items with hp or they don't have any items at all such as at the start of a game. Most hp items are costly but don't provide anything other than armor and hp in the build. MAYBE riot should add things that build from the sword into a tank item. Just a thought

LankPantsFeb 13, 20161 votes

What do supports fighters and tanks have?

Cinderhulk, but it's overnerfed in terms of late game scaling and not available to everyone. If it was around 20% bonus HP rather than 15% jungle tanks would probably fine. That's not to say Cinder's a bad item, it's a very good item, it's just a weak multiplier.

As for lane bruisers there's Titanic Hydra, which kind of works as a multiplier item. It converts HP>Damage rather than Damage>Damage like all the items you listed or HP>HP like Cinder.

Overall I do feel like Tank multiplier items do exist, but they feel just a bit undertuned right now.

BLACK REALM GODFeb 13, 20161 votes

Okay so the hydras and the immolate items. I feel those arent enough for early to late game scaling, but ill accept those. This post isn't about fighters and supports, but what do they have

LankPantsFeb 14, 20161 votes

Fighters don't tend towards multiplier items, they just build the strongest single items available to them. This is mostly because they need a bit of lots of different stats rather than a lot of one. This pushes them more towards generic items like TriForce.

Supports don't have strong multipliers. That's all supports. Caster supports rarely reach the point where they can buy a Deathcap so they essentially don't get a multiplier item either. If you don't have very many stats then multipliers just aren't that useful.

BLACK REALM GODFeb 14, 20161 votes

Good answer. Fighters have no role. And supports are too weak to do anything so no point in giving them items. Movement speed is a supports only weapon

LankPantsFeb 14, 20161 votes

I think you're missing the point, fighters and supports don't tend to have a lot of one stat. Because of this there's not really any significant stat to multiply and just getting a flat boost to a single stat is better than multiplying a stat they don't really have.

Look at Irelia's builds for example. She builds a lot of different items all of which have different stats. She doesn't want to multiply any part of her stat line, instead she wants to buy items with large flat values because they give her more value than multipliers.

This is a really simple concept, if you lack the stats to multiply a multiplier is worse for you than flat stats. Warmog's is a stronger raw HP item than Cinderhulk if you're not stacking HP.

BLACK REALM GODFeb 14, 20161 votes

I understand your point. My counter point is that the champions are unbalanced. You can see it every game. The items are partially to blame. The passives on most items do not make any sense. You shouldn't just suddenly start doing something just because you paid a lot of gold. That's one thing about this game that makes it hard to balance champs. The item tree build paths have been looked at and identified many times at fault. So until the item paths are correctly balanced for a more generic start for fighters tanks and supports (not including the hybrids they're just too intense) it's going to be impossible to lock down a system that incorporates all the needs of the champs.

my suggestion is quite simple really. Add damage items into the tank builds. If you get a sword as a tank early on you wouldn't have to worry about being slow at farming. They don't have to combine hammers and bf swords. Just a little sword and a piece of armor and a giants belt. Bam. You have the perfect starter item for tanks. We'll call it "knights armament" grants 5 points damage mitigation and tenacity 30 damage 50 armor 400 health. 350 for the sword 800 for the chain armor 1000 for the giants belt then 1000 for the recipe 3150 total

LankPantsFeb 14, 20161 votes

Add damage items into the tank builds.

This seems to be assuming that all tanks are alike. Support tanks aren't ever really going to want a damage based item in just the same way as juggernauts probably aren't going to want a utility based item.

More to the point these items exist already. Titanic Hydra, Sterak's Gage and Liandry's Torment are good examples of higher damage tank items, they're also good examples of higher durability damage items because these two consepts are one in the same.

We'll call it "knights armament" grants 5 points damage mitigation and tenacity.

That's a bruiser item. Flat damage mitigation is more powerful when you have less resists since it typically applies before your resists, where it doesn't it has a tendency to make you completely immune to minion damage setting up for stupid freeze situations.

Tenacity is also more of a bruiser stat than a tank stat, since tanks tend to still contribute when CCed. For example Sej's and Amumu's Ws persist throughout CCs. When a bruiser losses their ability to attack they lose a lot of DPS, this isn't normally true for a tank and it causes tenacity to be much stronger for bruisers.

So until the item paths are correctly balanced for a more generic start for fighters tanks and supports

Once again you're falling into the flaw of assuming all fighters and supports are single entities. They're not.

Supports are two very distinct classes. Mage supports who are a subset of mages and tank supports who are a subset of tanks. These champs stat bind to their overarching class in terms of stats and not really to their role (past Sightstone anyway). Tank supports like durability and mage supports like AP, all supports like utility. I really fail to see your problem here unless it's just 'supports have less gold' in which case yes, yes they do.

Fighters are the most diverse 'class' (amalgamation of multiple different classes) in the game. It basically covers all melee champs who aren't assassins or tanks and even a few that are, which as it turns out is quite a wide range. When we're talking about champs as diverse as Gangplank and Shyvana in the same class there's no way you can create a single stat to work for all of them.

Individual champs within the class also are stat binded. Yasuo and GP are uniquely binded to crit. Shyvana and Irelia are binded to AS. Most are binded to durability ect.

BLACK REALM GODFeb 14, 20161 votes

I'm saying that there needs to be an item for every base stat and an item tree that incorporates the 15 or so base stats combined. That's well over enough items to encompass every need.if you can do permutations and combinations then you would understand my meaning. As things are right now competition and strategy are stifled by being forced to buy "this item always because it's the best" that's what happened to deadmans plate. Yes I know there are magic based physical based and utility based champs in all categories. I realize the fighter class is a class that is meant for those who do not fit into other classes. You don't need to repeat yourself. Diversity is key. The items however are not diverse enough and simply need an overhaul. Masteries too, but that's another issue. 18/12 and 18/6/6 not make for much strategy. If you could make the decision to get 5-15 extra armor penetration when you're losing to an armor building tank who's been able to pull ahead don't you think that a lot of people would agree that it was a good "counter-play" as opposed to what we have now which is "JUST HUG THE TURRET" while you're forced to either build a completely new item that costs 2k or you continue down that lonely road trying to build dead mans plate which ultimately wont help you kill being called a feeder as its "gg surrender at 20 ______'s fed" I don't know how often you've played pure tanks but they usually don't get much damage if you get a kill under the turret its because your opponent was greedy. And you can't just change champs and say "well he's a bruiser I'm not good against those let me get a new champ" so the items available make a huge difference.

BLACK REALM GODFeb 14, 20161 votes

And furthermore the items that are already in-game should be retuned so that every material item represents a specific stat. There needs to be 3 levels of damage 3 levels of AP 2 levels of hp 2 levels of mana 1 level of regeneration for both hp and mp 1 level of movement 1 level of penetration 1 level of cool down reduction 2 levels of armor 2 levels of magic resist 1 level of spell vamp or life steal 2 levels of critical 2 level of attack speed etc. For all base stats there needs to be an item that grants that specific thing that you can buy as an individual item. Because there isn't an item for things like magic penetration or cool down reduction you have a lot of build paths that just randomly throw it in along the way. Take the boots for example. Magic penetration can't be gained until you purchase the entire boot. Same thing with cool down reduction. You don't get a halfway point like with the beserkers tabi and mercurys. There needs to be a component piece for EVERY stat. To this day haunting guise is still the only early magic penetration item, but if you aren't getting liandrys you're better off getting boots or pure AP

Absoluti0n ZeroFeb 13, 20161 votes

support/tanks have item 3143 decrease crits from adc's and MR items help only so much (mages should have high damage against tanks since they rely on CD's to do damage)

fights get item 3053 (even though its now nerfed) gives them a nice shield and bonus ad as well as health.

i think the LW upgrade that shreds tanks and void are the items that kinda destroy tanks that do no damage. the game kinda frowns on tanks (except Alistar because of his godly ult) so fighters and cc reliant supports are more appealing. they need to introduce an item that trade % of their damage into reduction. such as you would do say 10% less damage to have 5-10% damage reduction (or whatever other ratio trade offs you could think of.)

Malphite is the idea of an unbalanced tank right now. yeah he has a lot of out playability because he telegraphs everything he does but with armor stack and an item 3001 + item 3025 he can solo a carry that doesn't have item 3072 . he is just an example of what champion is designed a tank but has the ability to kill people making him a fighter after a while then a tank.

BoulderoxFeb 13, 20161 votes

Uhhh so being a true tank is a problem? The only reason he can solo someone is because of his ult, the only reason malphite is viable is the engage his ult has, his q w and e are nice but don't do jack for a team... His ult has a 100% ap ratio, thats why ap malph can work, he can burst, but there is little reason to when armor makes you more viable passive and e wise. Having stats scale with armor? Hp, etc? Thats bad tank design

BLACK REALM GODFeb 13, 20161 votes

I want to point out that I'm not talking about tank hybrids. I don't understand where the disconnect in my wording is. I'm talking about support supports fighter fighters and tank tanks. Not hybrid builds. Step away from those complexities

BoulderoxFeb 14, 20161 votes

Yet still, the way that tanks usually scale is with hp and armor/mr. That is just as valid of a theme as carries building ad, they scale off there role. Tanks don't inherently scale well with offensive items, so they need things to have them be able to do some damage and not be cc bots. Fighters are in that linbo... Feeding off of strong sustain items, and AS. And supports will forever be plagued, as any good item, mid laners abuse, and then is nerfed, and everything they get is subpar, but that is why people are crying out there disapproval for new items for roles that are still decent... While tanks, fighters and support.

SithesisLordFeb 13, 20161 votes

A 0/10 KDA.

AbyssphereFeb 13, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=BLACK REALM GOD,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rArMlhau,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2016-02-13T10:11:13.499+0000)

Just curious but... If mages have deathcap. Marksmen have infinity edge... Now assassins have duskblade... What do supports fighters and tanks have?

I guess the closest thing tanks have is Cinderhulk. Pretty sure they used to have a % HP multiplier on a regular item (Warmog's?) but that's not a thing anymore.

BLACK REALM GODFeb 14, 20161 votes

Cinderhulk is a jungle only item. Warmogs now regens for 200% and an additional 15% of max hp every second. But only if you have 3000 hp. Meaning all of the items... Build off of the passive. What you're putting into the builds do not equal the passive. An infinity edge lets you build damage in steps to make it. 3 items bf sword hammer and the cloak of agility. Rabadons same thing. All 3 AP based items. The rod the tome and the wand. They grant lots of AP and guess what more AP. The new duskblade is a low hp champs nightmare. It grants assassin damage penetration cool down and a pretty sweet insta kill passive. Now. The items to build it are 2 swords a bf sword and then you make the two swords into a serrated dirk. Damage damage damage. Spam spam spam. Dead. So tell me why there are no items that specifically scream support or fighter and with the exception of warmogs... Which if you build it pre level 15 you're wasting the passive... Tanks. The early game race forgets them?

stealthfox94Feb 13, 20161 votes

Saying something bad about tanks on these forums eh? Prepare for downvotes and people saying "OMG I HATE ZED CINDERHULK META WAS SO GOOD!!!!!!!!!!!!"

Sona PingFeb 13, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Saying something bad about tanks on these forums eh? Prepare for downvotes and people saying "OMG I HATE ZED CINDERHULK META WAS SO GOOD!!!!!!!!!!!!"

Or maybe you could pay attention, read the discussion, and realize that he is getting downvoted because he decided to complain about tanks when he doesn't even know what one is, instead of writing up some knee-jerk post that makes you sound like a middle schooler in the youtube comment section.

stealthfox94Feb 13, 20161 votes

No some of those downvotes definitely came from the title. This board loves tanks and hates assassins. You can't deny that.

Truly PridefulFeb 13, 20161 votes

A tank isn't going to 1v1 a fed carry. A tank however might be able to 1v1 a carry on equal gold footing and that is perfectly fine. Tanks seem fine, they can get pretty beefy yet are still very killable.