Do we think Zac's rework was a failure?

MaryPoppinsYall·12/29/2018, 5:48:44 PM·17 votes·8,764 views

Pure bias of a OTP here:

I've gone away and come back to Zac constantly for a while. Most other Zac players i talk to HATED the change and still are frustrated. So, with a blood stream full of caffeine I wanted to dump my/our thoughts to a more diverse group.

Why the rework? Zac was reworked during a mini tank overhaul. Tanks, especially then, were the same with different skins. An engage, hard CC, an AOE damage and/or debuff, usually a multi stun ult, and building health/armor/mr was good. They had/have very little mechanical play. Just keep walking around. Mumu, Ramus, Alistart, Malphite. All did the same but mildly different.

The decision was made to rework some of them. Give them more "skill" related abilities. Make them more unique. Cool. Good idea.

But, they turned to Zac. Who had a very unique engage (kept the same), and a VERY unique AOE stun ult that required positioning and thought to accurately succeed. His Q was garbage as a spell but was integral to Top lane.

What was done? His unique ult that could split a team up by knocking some back and some forward was replaced with his current one. At the time, you lost multiple damage hits and multiple blob spawns (healing during ult). His Q was replaced by another hard CC. Giving Zac 3. And, imo, the new Q is not really a skill shot. Often, you just Q a minion then auto a champ. His Q damage was nerfed hard. Can't have CC and damage, i get it. So, we have this new Zac. CC coming out of his ears and almost no damage.

What followed was a series of massive spikes and bottoms in win rates. 46%, 56%, 47%, 50%, 44% and has very slowly crept up to now at about 48.5%.

Zac is now a balancing nightmare. Give him damage.... broken. Can't have 3 hard CC and damage. High elo/pros will massacre. Damage is gutted and he's useless in solo q because that's how solo q is.

Zacs win rate from mid 2015 to mid 2017 bounced around (puns) from 48% to 52.5%.

Zacs play rate was about 4% rising up to 9% with the occasional patch block at 10 or 11%. The rework saw spikes to 13% followed by BOMBS down to 3%. Currently..... for half a year.... under 2.5% play rate.

I can't see any world where this is thought of as a success. Is current Zac awful..... no. I wouldn't say that. But he's super tough to balance around different ELO of solo queue and pro play. And the biggest issue is that old Zac was flat out better. More lane options (top Zac was a niche thing), could actually be a bruiser-esque guy when needed, could be balanced and changed without wild win-rate swings.

I'd have to say the only change Zac need was his Q. It was braindead. It was not interactive. I would have looked at making his Q into a more difficult but still damage dealing spell. Such as keeping the current grab and slow, followed by your autos doing more damage and having more range to that champ until they get away or time runs out. Kinda like grabbing someones collar and punching them over and over. Now attack moving is a thing. You made it a narrower skill shot, the enemy can dash or move away.

The worst part is, Zac was just more fun back before rework. Lets Bounce was silly and interactive and fun. And honestly, it had big play potential if positioned correct or you were able to flash with it. The puddle and scoop is a step back from that and is a much stronger group CC that if wombo combo'd (let's be honest this is mostly for pro play) is devastating.

Thoughts? Was the rework actually needed? Was zac better old or new to play with? Play against?

18 Comments

Bouncemaster Zac12/30/2018, 8:44:26 AM8 votes

The rework was not only a bad one, it was unnecessary. Zac's kit was neither outdated nor uninteractive like every other champ that gets reworked. They hit him because he happened to be strong for the first time since release and they didn't like that.

Moody P12/29/2018, 5:49:30 PM5 votes

Yes. The rework sucked.

LTK KoRo12/29/2018, 7:46:54 PM5 votes

Actually i feel like the Q rework was needed just because how useless this ability was in jungle, and how obnoxious was it on toplane. Ult changes might be a mistake, but Q changes are cool for me.

GreenKnight12/29/2018, 5:53:41 PM3 votes

Well, reworks are generally failures, but Zac's change was pure stupidity.

MorgManBasher12/30/2018, 6:58:36 AM2 votes

I really like Zac's new Q, however I miss his old ult simply because it used old item 3151 so well and you could go tank magic pen/AP

But yeah, I love the new q and find it infinitely more fun than his old Q.

Stand Alone Wolf12/30/2018, 4:46:14 AM2 votes

As a Zac jg main, I must say pre-work Zac was more fun. Taking his ult away Post-work was ridiculous, BUT! I can work with it. For example: I tend to save his ult for bullied lanes/losing lanes.

  1. Let them push up onto turret.
  2. Slingshot over wall slightly behind them. If you knock them up a bit, they go towards turret a smidgen.
  3. Pop ult, then bring them behind your turret. Whomever was losing lane can safely engage knowing they will flee from turret. If it's bot lane, it goes from a 2v2, to a 4v2 (Me the jg ganking, and the turret assist)

It really puts them in a nasty situation where they are exposed, and it causes them to disperse. then there's the ones that ignore the strat, and take free dmg from turret. they die, turn over the bounty, I get assist gold, or kill gold, and the enemy thinks twice about over-extending/bullying. If not? Rinse, wash, and repeat steps 1-3.

I've taken Zac top lane, and get nearly the same results.

the shy top12/30/2018, 7:16:10 AM2 votes

no.

Monstermushmush12/30/2018, 5:15:05 AM1 votes

I don't like the rework. I'd rather have them get rid of his Q CC and just increase its damage...

doodlebob66612/29/2018, 7:50:00 PM1 votes

a quick fix would be to make it so that you can't hit a minion then a champion with q or you don't get extended range if you hit the minion so his q actually becomes a skill shot this will kill toplane zac even more but that trains already out of the station

Ahris12/30/2018, 10:22:42 PM1 votes

Do u guys not like him because his winrate and pickrate is low? Cuz that stats doesnt have anything to do with champ being fun or not fun.

Flufflepuff423112/30/2018, 7:23:56 AM1 votes

Finally someone who admits that their opinion is a little biased every time I read about these character reworks and help people don’t or do you like them they’re always kind of standing by it so thank you for putting that little disclaimer.

II’ve only been playing league for about six months now and I’ve never heard of Zac until his rework. I do think that some of his reworks were a little stupid and were unnecessary but I do think that he got popular after that. in the first few months of playing league I never really saw him then afterwards I saw almost every few games but then it kind of died off. I think people got excited about the rework and thought it would be better but he really wasn’t I think league just did unecessary patches and re-works on him and he was fine before but I don’t really play Zac and I don’t really know his attacks all that well so again this is also my biased opinion but I don’t know

Nhifu12/29/2018, 5:53:51 PM1 votes

His damage sucks, will never be in the "try-hard" category

Tin Obliterates12/30/2018, 1:58:47 PM1 votes

I feel like it was just unnecessary.

Charmy Bird12/30/2018, 2:04:48 PM1 votes

i find new zac much more useful than the older zac.he has much more cc and aoe cc his old q just slowed while his new one can even pull 2 champs towards u and his ult can stun and move an entire team while his older one just damaged them(maybe even moved em a little bit dont remember very well)

Dope Solo12/29/2018, 9:49:36 PM1 votes

This champ looks hella fun and I wish I saw him in game more often. That said, I hardly ever see him and thus the rework must have been a failure. I also think his passive is a little weak, getting a GA effect every 5 minutes is just lackluster considering how easy it is to blow up his blobs.

FSRER12/30/2018, 5:43:42 PM1 votes

It was a good rework since his updated ultimate makes him much better at displacing the enemy team than his old ult made him. He because more useful all in all.