Personally I want less new champions in 2018-2019 and more VGU's of old ones.

Wooosh Re·Mar 24, 2018·174 votes·5,346 views

Riot has said they want to slow down with making new champions to start looking at the OG's of the Rift. I personally think this is a great idea. I really don't like seeing the old guys get ignored, for example: Some of these have trash models, bad gameplay or are just generally unfun to play agains. Therefore I personally want more VGU's to thin out the list of walking trashbags ( )

178 Comments

Dead flag bluesMar 24, 201833 votes

Nunu

This champion makes no sense

AwesomeGuyDjMar 24, 201823 votes

PRetty sure he's after akali

Death RexMar 25, 201817 votes

At first I thought you mean Nunu is going for Akalis booty

Supreme Senpai69Mar 25, 20185 votes

Holy shit they're talking about reworks. The Nunu picture on the forums just exudes <Removed by Moderation>. I honestly thought he was talking about Nunu's purpose in life: going after Akali's ass. As an answer to the statement "He makes no sense."

JarodDempseyMar 24, 20181 votes

what do you mean by no sense? Are you questioning the need for nunu to have a vgu?

FaustavianMar 25, 20182 votes

there's no real key or thematic to his kit, he's a stat-check champion with no identity or niche that isnt filled even better by another champion

BigfootNamedYetiMar 25, 20183 votes

He's a Yeti Rider and that's all that matters

buPPDrmXEOMar 24, 201813 votes

"Unfun to play against" . Right. Cause the new, upgraded versions of those champions are fun to play against? Give me a break.

Zero Skill TankMar 24, 201817 votes

Swain, Eve, Xin, Urgot, Galio, WW, Poppy, Yorick are all WAY more fair for enemies than they were.

You might not always feel that way, but that's because many of them, most notably Yorick, Poppy and Urgot were intentionally kept as complete thrash by balance team.

Z3SleeperMar 24, 20181 votes

{quoted}

You might not always feel that way, but that's because many of them, most notably Yorick, Poppy and Urgot were intentionally kept as complete thrash by balance team.

You talking about new or old? Cuz the new ones are strong and totally viable now.

Velzard of KozMar 24, 20184 votes

Old ones since he used were not are.

Zero Skill TankMar 24, 20186 votes

Old ones were intentionally kept crap (because of how toxic their kits were if they were any strong).

kargishMar 25, 20182 votes

4 man immunity assassin Poppy let's go

MuffledGarbageMar 24, 20182 votes

I dare you to play literaly any current toplaner against old yorick

you are going to hate yourself, your life, and everything that you've ever done to that point

Old yorick is not something that you'd want over new yorick

MordepoolMar 25, 20183 votes

{quoted}

I dare you to play literaly any current toplaner against old yorick

you are going to hate yourself, your life, and everything that you've ever done to that point

Old yorick is not something that you'd want over new yorick

I could fight Old yorick with Morde to a stalemate. That's what winning was vs Old Yorick

MYXYNMar 24, 201813 votes

i would be complety ok with a year dedicated to just champ reworks, no new champs, just reworks.

FilDaFunkMar 24, 201812 votes

I disagree. Maybe VUs, but I always feel like VGUs just remove the original champ. Karma Swain

Rico NastyMar 24, 20184 votes

True, but I'd take New Karma over Old Karma any day.

FilDaFunkMar 24, 201810 votes

I'm not saying new Karma is bad (I do love her, one of my favourites). But she's nothing like old karma.

MordepoolMar 25, 20184 votes

{quoted}

I'm not saying new Karma is bad (I do love her, one of my favourites). But she's nothing like old karma.

Yeah I was a Fan* of old Karma

Fear the KaynMar 25, 20181 votes

Old swain was a seriously ugly champion with a pretty toxic to play against kit.

FilDaFunkMar 25, 20183 votes

Yasuo

dogownerjrMar 25, 20184 votes

That's literally exactly why a part of me doesn't want Riot to touch Morde. I love him with a strong passion, and seeing him get turned into something completely different will hurt me to the point of possibly leaving the game.

ZyniXMar 25, 20183 votes

They already ruined him for fans that didn't want Morde touched.

kargishMar 25, 20181 votes

How long ago was the Karma rework again? I feel like you could have picked a more relevant example

FilDaFunkMar 25, 20182 votes

I used examples that I found resonated the most with me.

I'm not sure how time impacts relevance, though.

RainbowIceeMar 25, 20184 votes

they do, people in these boards are just kids that want new toys it doesn't make sense. Rework champs are for the most part just a new champion anyways they're just deleting the old one. Very few exceptions to this are Warwick from recent times and that's it. I really like the new Urgot but i must be demented to say he's still urgot. This is a new champion. So these people saying VGU are just basically saying they want a champion deleted because they struggle or don't like to play vs them. How about their main champ get's deleted and fucked off and see how it feels. But at last, Riot wants the new comers not the old ones. Pretty soon us old players will be gone and riot will have to worry about games like pug-G and fortnite instead of just worried about pleasing old players that stuck around and brought in the new players anyways.

IręlíaMar 24, 201811 votes

Fiddlesticks HAS to get the next one after Akali. I've been asking for it since Sion VGU and I still yearn for it.

He has so much spooky potential! I really want them to enforce the surprise horror about his theme.

Pokemonred200Mar 24, 20182 votes

It looked like, from the roadmap, after Akali, we'd be getting Nunu. if that's the case, Fiddle could always come right after, though!

monoscapeMar 24, 20186 votes

I'd take Shaco, Morgana and maybe Udyr off that list. The rest I agree with tho

SwiftKitten88Mar 24, 20186 votes

{quoted}

I'd take Shaco, Morgana and maybe Udyr off that list. The rest I agree with tho

morg donest need a kit update.. and maye not a model update.. but her older skins like exiled certainly need new particle effects

Velzard of KozMar 24, 201822 votes

morg donest need a kit update..

This is what a lot of mains of VGU'd champs said about said champs. Nobody wants their champ changed. Try suggesting some rework ideas in C&C Board for literally any champion, even the most out-dated one and there will always be that oen person saying "No they're fine like this". Pointing out the first thing is that people get frustrated over that 1 year root, although its duration is justified. It certainly needs work so that it feels rewarding for its trade-offs (as it is now), while simultaneously not being equally strong when used point-blank, which totally kills the trade-off part. Her black shield then, for example, is as uninteractive as any shield and many players would like Riot to change that. Etc. Etc. But whatever champion you choose, even If they feel like they need to be modernized, will always have that one "No they're fine" guy. I've heard such people even about old Warwick.

SwiftKitten88Mar 24, 20183 votes

[{quoted}](name=Velzard of Koz,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=qkGTYPW1,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2018-03-24T18:33:09.861+0000)

This is what a lot of mains of VGU'd champs said about said champs. Nobody wants their champ changed. Try suggesting some rework ideas in C&C Board for literally any champion, even the most out-dated one and there will always be that oen person saying "No they're fine like this". Pointing out the first thing is that people get frustrated over that 1 year root, although its duration is justified. It certainly needs work so that it feels rewarding for its trade-offs (as it is now), while simultaneously not being equally strong when used point-blank, which totally kills the trade-off part. Her black shield then, for example, is as uninteractive as any shield and many players would like Riot to change that. Etc. Etc. But whatever champion you choose, even If they feel like they need to be modernized, will always have that one "No they're fine" guy. I've heard such people even about old Warwick.

there is a reason for that... the vast majority of rework have been failures.

riot doesn't exactly have the best track record on this

sure there are some good ones.. and even some FANTASTIC ones.. i happened to be one of the lucky few who had thier main Nidalee reworked phenomenally not only givbe her MUCH more counterplay but being INCREDIBLY more fun to PLAY as well. ( i am talking about the 4.10 rework)

i disliked Warwick before his re-work now he the nly other jungler besides Nidalee i play

but like i said.. i was luckly other champs were flat out ruined..

then there is Ryze ... yeah...

so i am a firm believer of: Don't "fix" what's not broken.

i may have been lucky once.. but i would rather not risk it... and all she NEEDS is some new particle color to make her "exiled" skin

SaezioMar 24, 201811 votes

{quoted}

there is a reason for that... the vast majority of rework have been failures.

riot doesn't exactly have the best track record on this

sure there are some good ones.. and even some FANTASTIC ones.. i happened to be one of the lucky few who had thier main reworked phenomenally not only givbe her MUCH more counterplay but being INCREDIBLY more fun to PLAY as well. ( i am talking about the 4.10 rework)

i disliked before his re-work now he the nly other jungler besides i play

but like i said.. i was luckly other champs were flat out ruined..

then there is ... yeah...

so i am a firm believer of: Don't "fix" what's not broken.

i may have been lucky once.. but i would rather not risk it... and all she NEEDS is some new particle color to make her "exiled" skin

what are you talking about? ryze has been OP in all of his rework/balanced states. Old ryze was a stupid tankmage with 3 point click abilities and an ultimate that made all those pointclicks AOE. xD the new ryze has a huge skillcap level and that is what we all should be asking for

koshkyraMar 24, 20186 votes

starts listing failed reworks

doesnt mention Leblanc

???

SwiftKitten88Mar 25, 20181 votes

{quoted}

starts listing failed reworks

doesnt mention

???

??? um because Leblanc rework did EXACTLY what it set out to do and not only made the champions no longer toxic to face but FUN to face... the crazy thing is riots attempt to "revert" it.. if they want to revert a FAILEd rework that made the champs even MORE toxic to deal with then revert Katarina rework.

Leblanc rework was done amazingly well

Dani El PezgloboMar 25, 20187 votes

her rework kit was simple so broken that they take 3/4 of damage of w , nerf all her spells , and nerf her waveclear, ending onbeing trash pick that nobody plays. not even ehr mains anymore (just check lb mains reddit). I wouldnt call good rework when that causes that a champ who was balanced with decent playrate and 50% winrate become on nearly trollpick.

Electro522Mar 25, 20182 votes

Are you talking about class update reworks, or VGUs? Because most of the VGUs have been considered roaring successes.

Sion Great success Poppy Great success.....just a bit overpowered at launch Taric Amazing Success Ryze This could be a considered a failure Yorick Great success Warwick Praised as the best VGU to date (you even said it yourself) Galio Could be considered both a success and failure Urgot Great success Evelynn Great Success Swain Deemed a failure by Swain mains, deemed a success by everyone else Irelia TBD, but everyone is liking what they see

Then, there have been the class updates, and mid scale reworks, which, granted, alot have been deemed failures.

Maokai Deemed as both a success and failure Alistar Deemed a success Tristana Not really any judging happened with her update, since it changed so little Zilean Deemed a success MissFortune Deemed a minor success Gangplank Fantastic success......just overpowered on launch Fiora Deemed a success, most criticism was aimed at visuals Skarner Deemed as a failure Mordekaiser ................yeah Garen Deemed a minor success Darius Community really split on whether this was a success or failure Ashe Deemed a success, bit overpowered at launch Caitlyn Minor, but deemed a success Corki Changed which role he filled, but ultimately was a success Graves Again, changed his role, but deemed a success Quinn Deemed a failure Shen Deemed a failure Deemed a success Cassiopeia Failure on first attempt, success on the second Heimerdinger Deemed a minor success Sona Deemed a failure Malzahar Deemed a failure Syndra Community seemed a bit split on this one Velkoz Deemed a minor success Viktor Deemed a success Vladimir Deemed a failure Xerath Deemed a success Ziggs Deemed a minor success Zyra Deemed a success Akali Deemed a very minor success (TBD how her VGU turns out) Kassadin Deemed a success Katarina Amazing success Khazix Deemed a success Leblanc Deemed a failure Nidalee Deemed a success Talon Deemed a success Rengar Deemed a failure Shaco Deemed a failure Sejuani Community is a bit split Zac Also split, but leaning more towards failure XinZhao Deemed a success

If you're wondering where some champs may be, I specifically started at Sion, and went from there. If you ask me, that's when Riot really started diverting resources towards VGUs and reworks. Before that, they were nothing more than hobbies to be honest.

Which is why everything before Sion was considered a failure, especially the big 3, being Olaf Olaf, Karma Karma, and Trundle Trundle.

Sexy Jack RabbitMar 25, 20181 votes

Trundle wasn't considered a failure and neither was Karma. They were just considered largely 'half-baked'.

It was changes that followed suit that made the champions unbalanced, unfun and in need of further changes.

They still improved over their old renditions, but not enough to deem them as stable as Ashe or Soraka so many years later.

IxtaliKingMar 25, 20182 votes

Karma's rework was considered a failure because it threw out all her themes (fans, karma, duality etc...) and replaced them with nothing. The gameplay was 'half-baked', with mixed successes, but the overall relaunch was a massive failure.

Karma was one of the reworks that sparked the debate on the need to respect old champions, and the core elements they bring to the game.

AmenPersonMar 25, 20182 votes

I miss old Yorick.

50CaliberHecateMar 25, 20185 votes

Just another thought, I don't think she needs "reworked" but I think Sona could just use a little bit of a Visual upgrade with their newer tech. She's not ugly now, I'd just like to see her a little touched up.

And Karma as well. I compared new Irelia and Karma (since lore and what not) and Irelia is basically glowing while Karma... is...dim? like she's lacking some much needed highlights on her clothes and hair textures now.

GorillaBearzMar 25, 20184 votes

Don’t forget about Nocturne . He needs one pretty desperately as well. His kit is very meh/outdated and they could definitely deliver on his nightmare/horror theme much better

CraktiteMar 25, 20184 votes

Why delete old champ to make new champ? (=VGU) Instead create new champs? Please think about people who like old champ. I was an old Swain main for example and i loved him, now he is so different, new Swain and old Swain could very well coexist. I love GU or VU but please stop with VGU...