Can we fucking revert positional queue before it spreads and ruins other regions?

Tormentula·2/4/2019, 8:39:38 PM·24 votes·8,591 views

I've played a fuck ton of games so far this season, and everything was to be expected as a huge mistake.


#The 'don't give a shit' attitude

The biggest bombshell was the huge abundance of trolls I've encountered this season, I climbed to mid diamond 3, and during the whole climb, at least one player was autofilled, didn't care, and often threw the game. Hell I'll bite and say I even did that during the placements, I wasn't intentionally trolling but I picked champs I otherwise wouldn't ever pick in ranked (such as learning riven or fi, champs i'm not great at but didn't care enough to do my actual pocket picks, I played to win but I just suck with them). While I didn't troll, it was a huge hinderance to my allies to have me in a role that i otherwise would've dodged or picked something I'm more comfortable with.

Here's my last game; https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/389945345594884098/542074893592821770/trolling.png

In this game, if you checked this nunu's OP.gg, they're a jungler only main that got autofilled mid lane, but decided instead to go nunu mid and run it down while doing a troll build and typing phrases each death like "DW its preseason!", "We win 6 items!" to avoid chat log reports. I'll send a support ticket with the full game later but I have absolutely no faith in riot what so ever when it comes to dealing with problems like this based on their history. Allowing players ease to soft (fuck that, hard) int without being punished in their main rank is just gross and should never be enabled or convenienced.


#Abusable boosting strategies

This is one a lot of people are doing right now, I'm in a discord server full of high elo players, and its becoming a norm where everybody is looking for duo partners that can role swap in champ select while abusing the matchmaking MMR of their other roles. Their MMR and gains might not go up much, but it doesn't matter because they're still able to claim what their tiers are and its harder to identify these players in-game. In regards to systems apparently countering this, it doesn't matter because we're talking people started new accounts, did placements in one, fast climbed to whatever elo their duo partner is, and then basically played in gold while climbing in diamond. Sure it tightens it, but these players haven't really experienced it, even ignoring the warnings, and the ones that are gaining very little LP are still preferring it due to how free the games are. You can't really report this either because again, you can't identify when this is actually the case going on in a particular instance to report it, and because riot implemented "counter measures" just means it likely ain't reportable as the system will handle it themselves (much like AFKing is rarely punished outside of leave buster.). I know riot believes countering the incentive to do this is the best area to target, but simply put people want to climb, regardless of effectiveness if its moving forward, its moving forward, only way to fix this strat is to make MMR the same across all positions.


#The Grind

I still haven't finished all of my placements yet, and I really don't want to. It takes forever to climb in my main role let alone in unfamiliar territory where I suck, have to mute all as I proceed to just be a noob adc/supp/mid/top laner and get flamed and reminded for it when I'm already aware. This isn't fair for me, but more importantly this isn't fair for my teammates, I feel empathy for them because I would've had an aneurysm in their shoes. When I was just autofill previous years, idk it felt like I actually was trying and doing what I can, even talking to coaches to improve at the role but the motivation just ain't there when I am this time.


#More trouble then its worth

I'm still trying to grasp what the pros are of this system when I've only experienced and heard cons. This is like the one time where the pro has a con that cancels it out.

Pro: playing off-roles won't punish you as hard on your main rank Con: this forces you to one trick a role for a steady climb and gives incentive to not give a shit when you're out of that role.

Pro: You get your role much more often Con: Doesn't mean everybody does and when you really think about it, if you only throw 1/15 of your games due to autofill compared to 1/8, you're not going to care at all.

Pro: you can play at different skill levels if you aren't accustomed to that role Con: enables boosting strategies, especially from players who previously were flexible in roles.

The only nice things in this entire system is how placements work and getting our roles in promos, but positional queue wasn't needed for those good changes.


Seriously I know only NA and KR have this system, but its actual torture that I wouldn't wish on the others. I actually would prefer dynamic, I'm being completely honest because at least with dynamic everybody is trying, this is like if you took dynamic queue, removed the communication advantages, then the players that didn't get their way just didn't play the game.

29 Comments

Neopolıtan2/5/2019, 4:19:57 AM5 votes

I honestly wouldn't put too much faith in them reverting this obviously terrible decision. It took them an entire year to realize Dynamic Queue sucked and ruined all of ranked, imagine how long it'll take to get rid of this

Jamaree2/4/2019, 9:06:49 PM5 votes

You know this would happen even with the old autofill system right? It is just now it is on full display.

Autofill is the problem, but if they remove that, people will have to be ok with extended wait times instead.

Yenn2/5/2019, 4:13:58 AM4 votes

https://imgur.com/lYEoRLV

Great system, 10/10, very enjoyable. They're not even auto-filled, top is their secondary.

Electro5222/5/2019, 3:56:29 AM3 votes

Oddly enough, all of the problems you list only seem to be affecting high elos right now. You, personally, are Diamond 3.

Me being Bronze (hopefully back in Silver here soon) haven't seen any of this, and I've played well over 50 games in this season already. Also, I haven't heard one complaint about the system from people in my elo range. For us, it feels healthier, and games actually feel like they are very closely matched (even if we have one underperforming player, it's usually the same on the other side).

Maybe it's because Grand Master and Challenger haven't been unlocked yet? I'm not entirely sure since I likely won't ever get to that elo, but.....it's just a guess.

letsfeedtogether2/4/2019, 8:41:38 PM2 votes

they prob wont put it anywhere next split. they said if we do not like it they will go to the old system

AntiSJW2/5/2019, 12:39:16 AM2 votes

i feel the only way to fix this is to remove duo from "solo/duo" so people can't team up game after game to boost

haaaaaaalp2/5/2019, 2:18:59 AM2 votes

Why? ranked was so much worse last season. Fewer people gave a shit because autofill was worse, boosting was worse due to the meta (taric yi had a much higher winrate than anything seen this season), the grind was longer (look at the number of players in diamond now vs same time last season), and the mmr system showed it couldn't continue to operator only on 1 mmr value.

For all of the bugs and fringe cases this season, ranked is much better than last season.

Abibyama II2/5/2019, 9:22:04 AM2 votes

Thank Mr NA for beta testing this shit

LightIsMyPath2/5/2019, 1:47:19 PM1 votes

Play a game in plat elo, have me autofilled ADC. Here's all your answers to "why we need different mmr for roles". I think that is actually a really good change, and I 'd like to see it coming to euw. Maybe I misunderstood the math but I fail to see how role-swap would give you a faster climb? Assuming you want to climb on your main role and queue on your duo role to get lower mmr, you have a prob won game but it will only give you like 3/4 LP on your main? It's gonna take an eternity to advance your main with that (nevermind the fact that after some time of doing it you will start to have harder games so you have only a chance of getting 3/4 LP and a chance to loose them. Maybe the system is not working as intended but if that's the case the problem is practical and the solution is "fix it so it works as intended").

To avoid the trolling they could create yet another rank: Global rank and that's the one that shows on your profile and decides which rewards you get, while the positional ranks just sit there to give you an idea of what mmr you are playing in with your different roles. Make the primary and secondary role affect the global rank more than the other 3 roles but at the same time make it impossible to ignore them (math needed, which I am not good at..). Ideally, as a general idea, you should have a situation where you need several roles near your highest to allow yourself a thrash role, or all off roles around 1 tier lower than your main roles. Only bad thing about this I can see is having to obligatorily play 50 placements which seems a bummer.. Maybe reduce placements for off roles?

Ayzev2/5/2019, 1:58:02 PM1 votes

Chances are they'll keep it around for like a year or so, and if people shit on them for it, like, a lot, they may considering reverting

Mimr2/5/2019, 4:44:59 PM1 votes

I don't think that Riot saw that kind of abuse coming. Honestly, does Riot have to treat the playerbase like a bunch of mischievous kindergarten kids in other to have a fair experience for everyone? No, wait, I already know the answer: yes they have to. Shame on you, community. For the god-knows-how-manieth-time.[zombie-nunu-bummed]

Namuyesol2/5/2019, 8:39:38 PM1 votes

Definitely agree with all the points. I made a post about this myself. There's another exploit/bug right now.

It happened to myself, but there are posts about it everywhere.

I duoed with my friend because he needed one more game for promos. He was mid, I was top. After we hit level 3, we decided we would have a better matchup, so we swapped lanes. And we won the game.

To my surprise, when I got out of the game, I got LP for mid, and he got LP for top.

It seems that if you switch lanes early and stay there, the game recognizes you have changed a role, and gives you LP based on that. Super frustrating because even though we won the game, he still needed another game for promos. Why does this have to happen? If we win a game after being assigned our main role, we should be getting the LP we earned.

This is being heavily exploited by other players according to reddit posts. Plat mid queues up as a support (Gold), and swaps lanes with their duo mid partner early in the game. He's facing other gold players and will dominate the game. The client recognizes he's mid and he gains LP for his PLAT role in GOLD ELO.

ODiiiiiN2/9/2019, 11:46:44 AM1 votes

There's only one way to fix this... Queue people up based on their role ranks first instead of overall rank. Problem with that is, they would have to overhaul their whole match making system. Not sure how hard it would be to change from overall rank to role rank. I mean assuming you get autofilled, then you would have to be sent to a whole new match search. But I think the whole point of autofill is to fill up a role that particular match search is lacking. So Idk how it would work, I'm not a programmer. Honestly though I always thought I'd rather wait 5 mins to get the position I really want then 30 seconds and get autofilled.

Sir Saltarin2/4/2019, 9:23:34 PM1 votes

EUW here, sorry NA guys that you have to suffer it.

I hope they revert it.

CrazFight 2/5/2019, 1:44:53 AM1 votes

If we learned anything from dynamic queue is that riot will be stubborn and push this through for as long as they can.

We need another round table with scarra to smack sense into them.

Hawthorn Tree2/5/2019, 2:32:14 AM1 votes

This new ranked system is seriously killing my joy for grinding ranked. Idk why autofill was even mandatory in the old system to begin with, and position ranking is honestly just an overcomplicated solution to a problem that should never have been a problem in the first place.

Metal Janna2/5/2019, 7:41:25 AM1 votes

{quoted}

Pro: playing off-roles won't punish you as hard on your main ! rank

Assuming you're a one-trick who has a "main" rank that they care about exclusively.

Con: this forces you to one trick a role for a steady climb and gives incentive to not give a shit when you're out of that role.

Assuming you get filled because you chose to one-trick a popular role. If you know every role you're going to want to raise your rank in every role, which means you will try no matter which role you get assigned.

Solution? Don't one-trick. And if you do, one-trick the least popular role so others benefit from your laziness.

ZaFishbone2/5/2019, 8:40:10 AM1 votes

[sg-miss-fortune] "Laughs in EUNE" (for now at least)

Daddy Ants2/5/2019, 12:28:02 PM1 votes

It has the potential to be a good system but it needs a lot of work.

Thanks 4fun region for beta testing it for us.

Don't release it to EUW, EUNE etc until it's an actual system.

If you cannot fix it in time, take it down completely and consider a season 10 release.

MorgManBasher2/5/2019, 12:38:11 PM1 votes

I know the feeling dude, every game there seems to be hard trolling.... I see people first timing characters just because they are off role.

Also why are rankings so messed up? I keep getting silvers in my plat games, like wtf?