AP Malphite is annoying, and im not sure how to lane against him.

Acemaster81·Sep 17, 2019·17 votes·12,303 views

I am finding AP Malphite to be extremely frustrating to lane against. I can't kill him, I can't catch him, and he kills me at lvl 6+ repeatedly.

59 Comments

SaezioSep 17, 201911 votes

You really need to explain what champs you play before anyone can give you any advice mate.

Acemaster81Sep 17, 20194 votes

Veigar Cassiopeia Diana KogMaw

It's really frustrating to see him in every other game when he isn't banned. But I don't ban him because there are other champions I dislike fighting more.

SaezioSep 17, 20195 votes

I think you should double down with both RoA and seraphs for veigar and cassio, coupled of course with ravenous hunter to keep you topped up at all times. Make sure to use Q on him every time he buffers his Q with cassio. I think with diana you can beat him easily with either conqueror or maybe lethal tempo/hail.

And if you don't think any of all these would work for you, just sit on a lost chapter and finish zhonyas 1st item, Really easy to dodge his R with zhon reactively and job done.

Or, if you see malph picked before you pick, just pick Olaf mid or some other bruiser and just destroy his ass.

Acemaster81Sep 17, 20191 votes

I just remembered. I keep experiencing a bug in which the various (or all of them) hunter runes don't show what players I haven't gotten kills or assists on. Aside from that, it's annoying to not see any sort of animation or delay before he ults, or worse, flash ults. I cannot guess when he is going to and I tryies to use Cassio's w to ground him before he can. But I gave up because that basically is meaningless. I just wish there was a better indication of when he is going to r and 100-0 me or my team's adc.

Karn BishopSep 17, 20195 votes

His ult is pretty telegraphed and is very much flashable so your complaint confuses me.

Acemaster81Sep 17, 20192 votes

I don't notice it, it usually seems to instantly happen for me.

Yets4240Sep 17, 20193 votes

It has a buffer, and a travel time. If you are familiar with the animation, you have plenty of time to dash/blink/flash away, unless he's ulting from point blank range. It takes him almost a full second to travel the full length of his ult, including the buffer at the start.

ZaFishboneSep 17, 20193 votes

Making counterplay rely solely on "natural reflexes have to be THIS good" is a pretty poor choice of design. I personally also can't flash the ult on reflex alone, and I'm sure that there are many pppl who are the same, considering that even pros state that they dodge abilities more on prediction than reflex

Pierce The VealSep 17, 20196 votes

There’s a reason why malphite was part of Bronzodia, it’s because people who don’t know how to play around him just lose to him.

A big part of his recent success is actually people not knowing how to deal with him. Not to say he is balanced or anything, but that is the situation.

WTBeGirl100EUhrSep 17, 20194 votes

Isn't reaction time a fairly good expression of skill though? A skill check of "X skill that is part of the game has to be Y high" seems like healthy skill expression to me.

ZaFishboneSep 17, 20191 votes

There is a limit in every human on how much they can improve their reaction time, dictated by their genetics. There is only so much that training can improve.There is no way to improve the limit on your in-born reflexes. That's why even pros say they dodge a lot based on prediction. Because being able to predict is one of the main things training actually improves. And I know, most pros have incredible reaction times. But that isn't just because they train a lot, but also because they were born with better reaction time than most people. I really don't want to imply that they don't train like hell, because they do, but that is the sad truth, that some people could never really rise to the absolute top, no matter how hard they work, because they weren't born with the qualifications.

It's true what they say, that being successful is 90% effort, and only 10% inborn talent. But at the very top everyone is putting in huge amounts of effort, and that's when those 10% really make a difference.

WTBeGirl100EUhrSep 18, 20191 votes

Is this actually a problem though?

ZaFishboneSep 18, 20191 votes

Do you feel like it's fair to make gameplay that can only be countered if you have the right genes?

Also, why am I being downvoted for just explaining the truth about how reflexes work?

WTBeGirl100EUhrSep 18, 20191 votes

Yeah, honestly I do.

Skill, with regard to anything, is going to be impacted by genetics. Sometimes you just aren't cut out to be good at something, and if you're someone with slow reaction times then you're just not going to be good at any kind of action-based video game. That's the way it is.

Being unable to react to a Malphite ult is a skill that, hey, maybe you're just not cut-out for. The reaction time required isn't particularly fast if you know it's coming. A lot of champions are very difficult to react to from fog.

ZaFishboneSep 18, 20191 votes

Like I said before, if you think a Malph ult is easy to react to when you see it, without prediction, but only with actual reflexes, then maybe you just have good reflexes, but that is NOT the case for a lot of players. Especially those clutch half distance ults that can just turn around a loosing fight. Also, there are enough advantages to good reflexes already, i don't think we need to add more by making abilities counterable ONLY by good reflexes.

I mean, something that relies mostly on an inherent attribute of yours doesn't really rely that much on what the word 'skill' actually defines

WTBeGirl100EUhrSep 18, 20191 votes

skill /skɪl/ noun the ability to do something well

Seems well within definition to me. Malphite ult takes over half a second to travel full distance and that's well within average human reaction times.

Z3SIeeperSep 17, 20195 votes

...there is no "buffer" (ps: it's called cast time)

His R has no cast time.

Also it takes him 0.54 seconds to ult max distance with no boots or other movement speed increases.

Edit: Dunno why this is downvoted. This is actually factual information pulled straight from the wiki. His R has no cast time, it's base movement speed is 1835 units/s and it travels a max distance of 1000 units.

1000 units / 1835 units per second = 0.54 seconds.

GilxeNSep 17, 20194 votes

[{quoted}](name=Karn Bishop,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=qUPrLF43,comment-id=00010000000000000000,timestamp=2019-09-17T03:51:46.754+0000)

His ult is pretty telegraphed and is very much flashable so your complaint confuses me.

Flash cd 4mins ult cd 60 secs, tell me more please.

Even if I want to dash out my dash has animation and he can cancel it.

Remove ap scalings, its fking abomination...

Romans VI XXIIISep 17, 20191 votes

Actually the way I build AP malph his ult is on a 42s CD :)

Radiant WukongSep 17, 20193 votes

[{quoted}](name=Karn Bishop,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=qUPrLF43,comment-id=00010000000000000000,timestamp=2019-09-17T03:51:46.754+0000)

His ult is pretty telegraphed and is very much flashable so your complaint confuses me.

I have a great reaction timing, I can click to dodge a Ahri Q or Thresh hook before they even finish the windup animation.

I can also easily avoid a Malph ult if I use Fizz, Vlad, Xayay or flash. I can block it Sivir and Fiora. But you're not about dodge Malph's ult with anything less than a flash. Ezreal's startup is too slow, Lucian's dash doesn't go far enough, Tristana's leap is too slow, you can't walk out of its AoE even with swifties.

It's true you can see it coming, but there's absolutely nothing you can do about it. A good Malphite is going to target far behind you and use his ult when retreating is the best option for you. I've caught Jax mid air leaping away, I've caught Lee Sin in the middle of his ward dash. Malph's charge is an extremely fast ability. We're not talking about a Sion ult or Nunu snowball. The likelihood of dodging without flash or zhonyas is highly unlikely.

inuitmailmanSep 17, 20192 votes

[{quoted}](name=Karn Bishop,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=qUPrLF43,comment-id=00010000000000000000,timestamp=2019-09-17T03:51:46.754+0000)

His ult is pretty telegraphed and is very much flashable so your complaint confuses me.

Yes because Malphite ulti and flash isn’t on the same cooldown ;) good one. Flashing everything is not counterplay

MártirSep 17, 20192 votes

{quoted}

It's really frustrating to see him in every other game when he isn't banned. But I don't ban him because there are other champions I dislike fighting more.

banshee veil gg

Hi im 12Sep 17, 20192 votes

as diana you just do your normal shit but max W, as any others you just build a null mantle, yes that's actually enough to stop him from 1 shooting you and he becomes useless.

xelakerSep 17, 20191 votes

these are pretty rough matchups man

LightswornLanceSep 18, 20191 votes

Well all the champions you play are squishes so ofc you get 1 hit by AP malphite. Your best options are to flash or zhonyas, or just take the malphite ult cooldown and hope your team follows up on it in a teamfight. Maybe rush zhonyas in this case?

JabberwöckySep 17, 20197 votes

As a AP Malphite player, heres a few champions and things i hate playing against, as AP Malphite.

I STRIVE to 100-0 mages/adc, more than likely, if your playing a squishy, your going to have a bad time.

Veigar If you rush a RoA and then a Banshees, you will most def survive against me, and you have the range to farm with, stay away from me, and keep your farming, dont push lanes, wait for your jungler.

Cassiopeia You can out harass me, opposite of Veigar, pelt me down, make me starve.

Diana Unless you get your jungler to pitch a tent, your gonna have a bad time.

KogMaw Your gonna have a bad time.

Heres a few champions i hate playing vs.

Aatrox Darius Fizz Illaoi Olaf Renekton Riven Vladimir

I know not all of these are mid meta champions, but i always have a rough/hard time playing vs them, i cant outright 100-0 them with a combo if were both equally fed, nor can i 100-0 them even if i do get a lead from my jungler, they have kits that can dodge my ult, stopping my combo, built in heals/CC/durability to survive my combo.

You dont always have to out damage malphite to win, sometimes having a stronger sustain/farm method and waiting for help, is the best way to win.

GilxeNSep 17, 20192 votes

First of all u shouldn't be played as full AP malphite. Whoever playing him as full AP are legit abusers and deserve to be flamed.

Romans VI XXIIISep 17, 20196 votes

Dont hate the player, hate the game.

kitsyokaSep 17, 20196 votes

k we found the rage quitter

Barso55Sep 17, 20191 votes

{quoted}

As a AP Malphite player, heres a few champions and things i hate playing against, as AP Malphite.

I STRIVE to 100-0 mages/adc, more than likely, if your playing a squishy, your going to have a bad time.

If you rush a RoA and then a Banshees, you will most def survive against me, and you have the range to farm with, stay away from me, and keep your farming, dont push lanes, wait for your jungler.

You can out harass me, opposite of Veigar, pelt me down, make me starve.

Unless you get your jungler to pitch a tent, your gonna have a bad time.

Your gonna have a bad time.

Heres a few champions i hate playing vs.

I know not all of these are mid meta champions, but i always have a rough/hard time playing vs them, i cant outright 100-0 them with a combo if were both equally fed, nor can i 100-0 them even if i do get a lead from my jungler, they have kits that can dodge my ult, stopping my combo, built in heals/CC/durability to survive my combo.

You dont always have to out damage malphite to win, sometimes having a stronger sustain/farm method and waiting for help, is the best way to win.

i dont see how malph beats diana. she can shield his harass easily. her damage and tankiness with ROA and her w are more than enough to counter any attempts of malphite to 100-0 and kill him instead.

JabberwöckySep 18, 20191 votes

You can bait out her shield, your CDs (if built correctly), is faster than hers, she only has her Q to harass, and must be in melee range to do her combo, which malphite can also do, but cancel hers out as well, he self buffs his defense, has his own built in shield, and can dish out more damage, since his abilities have a higher scaling than hers.

You dont go "full ap" on malphite, you build something along these items: item 3100 item 3194 item 3102 item 3020 item 3157 item 3068 item 3905 item 3152 item 3165

All these items work well with malphite AP. You build the runes that give you movespeed mostly. This will give your Q an outrageous amount of movespeed bonus, even more so in river, especially once your at full build, i Qd a singed ulting with ghost, and i had over 700 movespeed and was the scariest thing in existence.

All these items give AP, Armor, Hp, Mr, CDR, Movespeed. You can easily get 450 movespeed base, 350-400 ap, along with 150-200 armor/mr with 3k HP, being literally a one shotting tank. The worst thing for a ADC/Mage/Support/Squishies. You can literally 100-0 1-3 champions if you land your ult and E and slap them with a lich bane proced W>e combo correctly.

Im by no means a pro, ive been lot plat (plat 4) a few seasons ago, i usually hover low-mid gold now, but Malphite is one of my top 5 champions for quiet a few years now, and this season in ranked i keep around a 55-60% win rate with him.

LordForrestSep 17, 20195 votes

Well since you are are talking about AP Malphite specifically, don't engage him. Literally just play safe and farm. AP Malph is reliant on cheesing people to get ahead so he can even function. He is literally about the 1-shot combo and if he isn't ahead enough to do it, he dies fast with little impact. Playing safe boils down to not pushing the wave and not letting him get close enough to Q you down. Even if he ults you under tower, he shouldn't be able to kill you if he hadn't hit some Qs earlier.

Otherwise harass the fuck out of him during the early game, never let him have his passive up with out having to basically be out of range of the minions to get it. He's pretty mana hungry early, melee, and his waveclear both sucks and is risky in the early game.

DOUBLE TAPPED ESep 17, 20193 votes

Bro just move to Chicago

Starcraft243verSep 17, 20193 votes

An unfed ap malphite will get destroyed in late game as long as your whole team doesnt stack.

Just buy one MR item and he will not killin you

GodlzaharSep 17, 20192 votes

If you think AP Malp is annoying, then try to fight a AP CHO GATH and tell me about it

Acemaster81Sep 17, 20194 votes

I am sure cho gath can't launch himself towards you at the speed of sound with high damage and cc.

InfernapeSep 17, 20192 votes

[{quoted}](name=Hide on shade,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=qUPrLF43,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2019-09-17T04:04:33.941+0000)

If you think AP Malp is annoying, then try to fight a AP CHO GATH and tell me about it

Cho'Gath's abilities are skillshots and have long enough cast times to actually avoid it. Whereas Malphite's ultimate is near enough instantaneous, and the rest of his kit is point and click.

KFCeytronSep 17, 20192 votes

In lane, counter his poke with some MR or health regen, since his Q costs a lot of mana.

After 6, MaddMan's suggestion above of Banshee's for an AP champ is pretty good, since Malph will have to pop the shield before retreating and waiting for a good ult opportunity. When he does that, you retreat and play safe until the shield is back up. When playing an AD champ, Hexdrinker/Maw could be good. As usual when playing against an assassin, try not to roam alone.

PlsRitoRepairS10Sep 17, 20192 votes

Well, that happens, whenever you're "buffing TANKS" by giving them sick ap ratios. :v

5050BSSep 17, 20192 votes

Its because his R needs to be rebalanced.

Support PositionSep 17, 20191 votes

Think hes annoying in lane?

item 1402 2500 gold item btw.

item 3285 3200.

Let that sink in....

XhaidenSep 17, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Support Position,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=qUPrLF43,comment-id=000a,timestamp=2019-09-17T12:09:30.326+0000)

Think hes annoying in lane?

2500 gold item btw.

3200.

Let that sink in....

That's because:

Luden's Echo

+90 ability power +10% cooldown reduction +600 mana

Unique – Haste: Grants an additional 10% cooldown reduction.

Unique – Echo: Gains charges upon moving or casting. At 100 charges, the next instance of ability damage you deal will expend all charges to deal 100 (+ 10% AP) bonus magic damage to the first enemy hit and to 3 nearby enemies, prioritizing enemies damaged by the ability and champions over minions.

vs.

Runic Echoes

+80 ability power +10% cooldown reduction +300 mana

Unique – Echo: Gains charges upon moving or casting. At 100 charges, the next instance of ability damage you deal will expend all charges to deal 60 (+ 10% AP) bonus magic damage to the first enemy hit and summon up to 3 lesser bolts that target nearby enemies, prioritizing enemies damaged by the ability and champions over minions.

Echo is amplified to **「 250% 」 magic damage on large monsters. Hitting a large monster with this effect will restore 25% of your missing mana. **

Runic's passive is decent enough for clearing jungle - but it's clearly inferior to Luden vs champions. The extra stats (+ 10 ability power, + 300 mana, + 10% CD and 40 higher splash damage) - clearly justifies the higher cost.

Support PositionSep 18, 20191 votes

{quoted}

That's because:

Luden's Echo

+90 ability power +10% cooldown reduction +600 mana

Unique – Haste: Grants an additional 10% cooldown reduction.

Unique – Echo: Gains charges upon moving or casting. At 100 charges, the next instance of ability damage you deal will expend all charges to deal 100 (+ 10% AP) bonus magic damage to the first enemy hit and to 3 nearby enemies, prioritizing enemies damaged by the ability and champions over minions.

vs.

Runic Echoes

+80 ability power +10% cooldown reduction +300 mana

Unique – Echo: Gains charges upon moving or casting. At 100 charges, the next instance of ability damage you deal will expend all charges to deal 60 (+ 10% AP) bonus magic damage to the first enemy hit and summon up to 3 lesser bolts that target nearby enemies, prioritizing enemies damaged by the ability and champions over minions.

Echo is amplified to **「 250% 」 magic damage on large monsters. Hitting a large monster with this effect will restore 25% of your missing mana. **

Runic's passive is decent enough for clearing jungle - but it's clearly inferior to Luden vs champions. The extra stats (+ 10 ability power, + 300 mana, + 10% CD and 40 higher splash damage) - clearly justifies the higher cost.

For malphite R. Or any junglers your using. Your losing nothing but 10 damage.

Lazy GrandpaSep 17, 20191 votes

if malphite maxes Q you can out sustain naturally(in kit) or buy like a rejuvenation bead or 2 and laugh as your health bar fills up in the span of 30 seconds, whilst his mana bar goes down if he doesn't max Q then aslong as you're not an auto attack reliant champion then you should be able to out trade him easily, malphite doesnt really like long trades (malph Q E W is also half his manabar).

if you have long range abilities you can in theory permanently stop him from getting his passive shield (x3 armor i believe?) if you are a champion that builds health early he shouldn't be able to oneshot unless fed. malphite is not a champion with his ult down until he has Q maxed with atleast ludens and other ap compenents or magic pen. don't gank an ap malphite as a glasscannon squishy assassin, squishy adc or enchanter past lvl 7-8 if he maxed Q have any ability to negates damage or makes you untargetable. dont stand on top of your minions or else they all die if he wants to go in with ult and E, but stay near them, if he's ap he's actually squishy so your minions can be a big help

i think these should be a couple decent things to keep in mind.

in any case aslong as you don't feed malphite kills, you should be ok. if he's far behind then he's only an ult bot. unfortunately though mage itemization is broken so squishies are never safe.

Worldlover12Sep 17, 20191 votes

{quoted}

I am finding AP Malphite to be extremely frustrating to lane against. I can't kill him, I can't catch him, and he kills me at lvl 6+ repeatedly.

Probably not the best option, but I usually pick nautilus against malphite. In early laning, max W and use it when he Qs. At the dame time, W allows you to clean the wave faster than him. If he tries to contest your push, you should outrade him with you CC. Rush abysal mask and then go tank or semi AP build. You should be ok to make him useless, while you can still provide much more utility than him.

Serika ZeroSep 17, 20191 votes

Diana main here. Since I noticed you said you play Diana into him.

In that match-up, I highly recommend you go: electrocute, taste of blood, eye hunter or something like that and either the rune that gives extra life steal/spell vamp or the one that gives movement speed.

For second tree you have 2 options in 2 trees. Either sorcery with magic shield and gathering storm, or gathering storm and perfect focus. or in the special tree. stopwatch + biscuits. Or boots + biscuits.

You take tp, and whenever malphite qs you in lane, you q him back to heal from taste of blood. your first item rush is the one that item 3010 and then you build into roa.

Ap malphite is a very cheese pick that drops like a rock post 20 mins unless feed. And even then.... So, your main goal in lane is to stay healthy with the help of taste of blood, your shield and telesport.

After your roa, if malphite isn't ahead you can 1v1 him. If he is 1-3 kills ahead, you have to wait a bit for your roa to stack (like 5-6) mins. then you build normal items like boots, zhonias, rabadons, etc. Whatever you need for that game

Overall the match-up 1v1 is quite easy for Diana. It only becomes a problem when you're camped by the enemy jungler.

ShmeizerSep 17, 20191 votes

Is AP Malphite meta now, god i hope not hes been my secret troll pick that actually works for like the past 4 years. Please don't tell me hes getting picked and banned.

HoldMyPlankSep 17, 20191 votes

The best way (as Ranged) is to trade and maintain that his passive is down as long as possible. Cassio is a really good pick because she also has innate sustain. Whenever malphite walks in to Q, you can drop miasma and start melting him. As Diana, you can just let your shield do the work, maybe itemize defensively, but DEFINITELY ROAM if you want a lead in this matchup. As Veigar, your job here is to stack, and I am sure Malphite is not the only champion that will try to poke you out of lane early game, so treat it like that. Kogmaw? Well hes not really meta in the mid lane so that's your call. xD

Acemaster81Sep 18, 20191 votes

I play Kog as adc, but I know he can be played in mid.