Tristana feels really weak

Bastilean·Mar 16, 2015·11 votes·3,782 views

Ok so her new kit has some cool stuff.

You can double the damage on her W and her E.

The problem is Riot reduced the damage on these so much you are not doing more damage than you were before.

The base damage on her E should be 150 at level 5.

I would also like to see her W damage around 220 at level 5.

The damage on these abilities feels really low unless you have good equipment.

Her reliance on her E feels really easy to circumvent by your opponents.

Maybe make it a skill shot like Zilean but make it more potent.

Other than a game against Ashe i have really struggled to get any winning lanes with Trist.

I find her ability to trade especially bad. Is it just me?

29 Comments

wRZcGiWq62Mar 16, 20157 votes

Tristana is strong AS HELL. I think you're insane or being REALLY sarcastic. Her damage is absolutely retarded and then a built in massive speed boost+ 2 good dmg abilities with one lowering CD on your speed boost, talk about GG.

NilokMar 16, 20151 votes

The problem I'm finding ~~isn't her damage~~, it is that she is a little too gimmicky with her E being the focus of so much of her kit and her range is a little too short right now to make use of it consistently. At her range early on, her opponent either just backs out of range so her Explosive Charge does a meager amount of damage, or jumps in and trashes her. This continues throughout the laning phase and doesn't seem to get long enough until 16/17/18 to feel worth while.

I feel a small increase in her scaling passive so would do wonders for her as it currently is a bit short.

Barring that and if Riot wants to make her more of an up close ADC, reduce the windup for her jump and make it travel faster for a short hop.

Edit: Checking some sites, according to Riot's API data, Tristana does the lowest damage of all ADC.

ofartMar 16, 20156 votes

{quoted}

Tristana is strong AS HELL. I think you're insane or being REALLY sarcastic. Her damage is absolutely retarded and then a built in massive speed boost+ 2 good dmg abilities with one lowering CD on your speed boost, talk about GG.

Nah, even in Plat+ her winrate's almost as bad as Twitch. She isn't performing well anywhere. The range and AS nerfs really hurt her. She's pretty lackluster now. She gets outscaled hard by several ADs with a better laning phase and mid-game, like Jinx. That doesn't mean you can't do well with her though.

Only Play DariusMar 16, 20153 votes

The range nerfs were uncalled for. Now there's no reason not to take Caitlyn instead.

A Miss FortuneMar 16, 20154 votes

I'm an ADC main, I play Caitlyn, Ashe, Twitch, Miss Fortune, Sivir, and mostly anything else. Though I main Miss Fortune.

I played Tristana for the first time and I felt almost useless throughout the game. I couldn't out-trade enemy ADC's and even late game I wasn't as great as someone like Vayne.

Tristana needs some buff to her overall damage, right now she isn't that powerful.

ZerglingOneMar 16, 20154 votes

I think the big mistake was giving her Jinx-like base attack speed without the persistent 120% bonus attack speed toggle. She needs to gain like...8% per level of Q passive attack speed and then have the active add 80.

Just something to offset her ridiculously low base aspd because her active Q doesn't justify it at all. 4% per level was probably too high, but 1.5% per level is most assuredly too low. Especially with the AA range nerfs.

NilokMar 17, 20152 votes

Ya, looking at this now, this may be the source of both her low win rate and low damage. I'll be interested if their Q change fixed anything, but according to their data, so far it did nothing.

AuryielMar 16, 20154 votes

1.5% AS per level

Riot pls

Chef NastyMar 16, 20153 votes

She's in a really weird spot right now. Her E is only good on stationary targets and isn't even that great late game when fully charged. I found it difficult getting even a few charges on a target in a teamfight since they either just run away or get blown before 5 stacks anyway.

There's only 1 game I saw in LCS where she was used after her rework, and it was by Doublelift just splitpushing and downing towers, which is what Trist's E is best at surprise surprise. But looking at the teamfights, he didn't really do much.. Even the casters mentioned she's meant to be split pushing with her new kit and her team has to play with that in mind.

ofartMar 16, 20153 votes

{quoted}

She's in a really weird spot right now. Her E is only good on stationary targets and isn't even that great late game when fully charged. I found it difficult getting even a few charges on a target in a teamfight since they either just run away or get blown before 5 stacks anyway.

There's only 1 game I saw in LCS where she was used after her rework, and it was by Doublelift just splitpushing and downing towers, which is what Trist's E is best at surprise surprise. But looking at the teamfights, he didn't really do much.. Even the casters mentioned she's meant to be split pushing with her new kit and her team has to play with that in mind.

Even for that though, Jinx is a pretty good alternative with far superior teamfighting. She doesn't have a jump but her E & W often buy you enough time to get away. Since you take down turrets so fast, you can often just finish a whole turret in 15-20 seconds and then flee with the passive MS boost.

I only see Trist as a better pick vs Zed, Akali, Kat and similar if you aren't confident in your team. I wouldn't even classify her as a hyper-carry anymore. She's just a bit above average late game but nothing too overwhelming.

In any case, Twitch is in an even worse spot. I feel Varus is too but he strangely scores alright so maybe it's just me.

KaisadiIIaMar 17, 20153 votes

They completely destroyed her identity and changed it to a burst-based weak carry nobody asked for.

One of many unnecessary, unwanted and non-sense reworks.

BastileanMar 18, 20153 votes

Explosive Shot (E) Much Ado About Nothing:

Ok, after trying every ability growth and throwing conventional wisdom to the wind I have the following conclusions.

If you want to maximize Tristana damage across a 5 second window with all your abilities up do the following:

Buy abilities in this order:

Explosive Shot, Rocket Jump (W), Rapid Fire (Q), Rapid Fire, Rapid Fire, Buster Shot(R), Rapid Fire, Rapid Fire

Yes, Moba-Fire is not good. Moba-Fire says buy Explosive Shot until you max it. This is the worst decision for your damage.

But WAIT you say. I don't have a BFSword yet you say. Shouldn't I go into W and E which are traditionally non-item dependent abilities?

Well, first off, Explosive Shot requires AAs now so not much different from Rapid Firing. Infact, other than AOE damage, Explosive Shot is an inferior Auto Attack (AA) steroid to Rapid Fire in almost every way.

Secondly, Rapid Fire helps you complete the AAs you need to maximize Explosive Shot. Rapid Fire AAs increase your damage based on your total AD and to add salt on the wound multiply based on your crit capabilities (duh auto attacks are auto attacks hue hue).

Thirdly, Explosive Shot's damage growth between levels 1 and 5 is none existent (10 dmg total x2) outside of bonus-AD multiplier. Rapid fire, on the other hand, multiplies the entire Total AD including the base AD not just the bonus-AD.

Fourthly, even if you have 2 BFSwords, Rapid Fire is superior damage output over a 5 second window. At max rank it provides approximately 3.5 extra AAs in 5 seconds. At max rank Explosive shot only provides 2.2 bonus-AD + 200 flat. That comparison is not even close, but incase you don't trust me we have math. Explosive shot is the icing for the cake when you are done making the cake. It's good to have, but its not going to fill your guests up with damage.

Fifth, Rapid Fire takes towers down too. Remember when I said Explosive Shot is an inferior AA steroid? This is me reiterating for clarity.

Lets Math:

Level 2-5 Rapid Fire levels each increase your damage by AD x 0.67 x 0.2/sec x 5sec x crit-stuff = .67 AD x crit-stuff. This is an increase of 2 auto attacks or more by reaching level 5. With a Blood Thirster (say 160 AD total) That's an extra ~100 physical damage per level of Q beyond 1.

Level 2-5 Explosive Shot levels each increase your damage by Bonus-AD x .30 + 20. Lets just say it's not good growth friends. It reduces your in fight options and at the benefit of approximately 1 auto attack by reaching level 5. With a Blood Thirster (say 160 AD total) That's an extra ~44 damage per level of E beyond 2.

Don't get me wrong:

Level 1 Explosive Shot and Rocket Jump are good. They are very good. You get almost half the damage value of level 5 with 1 level in each of these abilities. Still get level 1 Explosive Shot and Rocket Jump right away!

But Rapid Fire is on a 20sec cool down! Yeah, I didn't say it would be a completely happy trade to level Rapid Fire first. It's mana free and keeps your E cost down a bit. Don't punch a gift horse in the mouth may apply here?

In conclusion, yes Explosive Shot can do more damage than it did before the rework, but it requires a lot of bonus AD to do it. Without bonus AD it does less damage even at 4 stacks than the old magic damage variety at level 5. If you have a lot of bonus AD you want to have Rapid Fire first and most because it's that good, it's not gated and it doesn't reduce your in combat decisions down to your initial target if you want results.

I just had a game where I went 15/5/5 with these ability purchases and my support said I was poo expletive. Did I honor him, you bet I did, we kicked butt and I have barely won a game since I started playing Tristana again. I am rusty. Was he wrong about my build and decisions regarding Explosive Shot, I think so. Am I a bad ADC? Not in some small corner of a relative universe.

Hope this was helpful. Lets get some of those Moba Fire sites updated. - Bast

3-17-2015 (I need to date this because abilities change which affects the validity of the analysis)

Remlap1223Mar 16, 20152 votes

There really wasn't a reason for her attack speed to be nerfed. Her range, I get, her damage, I get, but her attack speed was unecessarily crippled. If anything, reduce the initial attack speed, and give her the attack speed scaling back.

Darth Pixy MisaMar 16, 20152 votes

Some range on e would be nice. it is 550 it would be great if this scaled with trist's passive.

blueberrypancakeMar 16, 20155 votes

It does...

Jesus Died 4 YouMar 16, 20152 votes

I don't know what you are talking about, I played her when she came out and 3-shot vayne when we were both full build. Didn't use any abilities either, I just walk towards her and 3 shot her.

Sassmast3rMar 16, 20151 votes

I'm actually quite surprised by this. Back before I hit level 30, people used to use her ALL THE FUCKING TIME AND IT DROVE ME INSANE! That god-forsaken rocket jump that killed my poor Nami sooooo many times in combination with her annoying ass ult that ensured you couldn't kill her even if you tried. That and the fact that she even used her rocket jump to escape, Jesus Christ, one of the most annoying champions I've ever fought, would rather fight a Kalista. It's sad that to this day, I STILL don't know how to counter her, but thank GOD she isn't used that much anymore ;-;

CrettMar 16, 20151 votes

Tristana's W intentionally has low base damage because it deals up to twice the damage when used in conjunction with E. It can reach up to 360 base damage. Riot didn't like that Tristana would hop around dealing huge magic damage and getting easy resets, so now it requires set up to get huge damage.

Meep ManMar 16, 20151 votes

The only thing I would do is make her E reset with her W as well since the base damage relies on E.

TyWdtSHg1KMar 16, 20151 votes

Twitch Varus MissFortune

BlazinHot6Mar 16, 20151 votes

In the early game, I find that the range on her bomb ability is ridiculously large, especially for a point and click. Her AS should not be buffed when she can throw a bomb on a turret and increase its dmg with each auto atk. Anyway, I think your points are valid but they cant be implemented bc of that bomb ability. I dont play her, sorry I dont know the name or button of said ability.

KindThoughtMar 16, 20151 votes

Her explosive charge damage is really bad, it's practically useless. Also i'm not a fan of her ultimate knocking people back, this can easily be helpful for the enemy in team fights, by letting them escape.I think it needs to be reworked to do big damage like jinx's and not do the knockback.

KaisadiIIaMar 17, 20152 votes

Her R is a high-utility spell. Don't dare to take away her knockback.

DomainSpecificMar 16, 20151 votes

She has her niche pick against comps with hard engages or assassins. Her all-in is rather atrocious, but her trades are OK.

Only issue I have is that her AS is terrible (second worst for ADC, behind Jinx who has either longer range + AOE, or insane persistent AS boost) unless her Q is up, yet Q has 20 secs CD (reducible to 15 if hitting a marked target). I think a slight CD reduction to her Q would bring her to a great place.

KaisadiIIaMar 17, 20151 votes

I remember long time ago when Tristana used to have one of the highest AS in the game.

And "long time ago" means "a couple of months ago".

AccountaBilabudyMar 18, 20151 votes

shes terrible

AbyssphereMar 18, 20151 votes

I don't really understand why they nerfed her scaling so much. Not her abilities, but her passive and AS. Tristana is a hypercarry ADC, or at least that was her identity. But she isn't one anymore because her AS scales terribly and her range just isn't what it used to be. I really hope they give her back some range/AS because it's hyperscaling that makes Tristana Tristana, not anything else.