Some form of change to duskblade, his items, or his damage need to be done.
Edit: Holy mother of God if I see another comment saying "stop saying this to a champ you can't beat." Holy cow I've beaten it before numerous times. It's just that Winrate is super high, people can abuse him to plat and ruin people's games and stuff like that.
chipndip132 votesSecond highest.
Janna wins more than anyone in solo queue atm.
Big Lincoln10 votespantheon is just good in the meta right now lol
Carteeeer28 votespantheons been meta since last season
he hasnt dropped below 50% win rate in almost two whole seasons
he really needs a rework
Big Lincoln29 votes
except for 2 seasons it's been forever
Dasdi969 votes[{quoted}](name=Big Lincoln,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=qBuaLv5d,comment-id=0001000000000000,timestamp=2017-07-23T20:08:43.916+0000)
Why hasn't she been nerfed yet?
Karfuss14 votesHer winrate is attributed to ADC overall strength, who are stronger than ever, and have never not been strong.
Janna is an enabler. She lets any half decent ADC run rampant. On her own she's useless.
Big Lincoln23 votesdoesn't mean she's not overpowered lol
you know a support can be TOO GOOD at supporting?
Karfuss3 votesIf that was true, she'd be carrying every ADC every game.
If you've ever played Janna as a support, you'd know that isn't possible with a terrible ADC.
She enables her decent ADC to do even better. She can't carry a terrible ADC in ways that say, Karma, Brand and Leona can.
U R Good At Game1 votesSupports itemization in general have made ADC the definition of a spoon feed role. They accomplished their goal of adding appeal and engagement to the support role but now supp is lowkey outta control. If you build an item and the other supp didn't you lost the fight. If you build:
and the enemy supp doesn't they lose. Instead of creating item diversity riot actually solidified support item meta. That is why almost every supp build contains those 4 items. Doing anything else lowers the win rate.
Back to the effect of ADC, take fighters like renekton. Do you know how fucking impossible it is to back line an adc when the supp has those 4 items??? Matter of fact, no bruiser in the game is strong enough to simultaneous get past those items as well as back-lining the adc (getting through peel, and other enemies). Even assassins cant. I can't tell you how many times those items have single handedly stopped a talon/panteon/syndra from nuking my ADC, THAT'S THEIR JOB AS ASSASSINS.
The only role in the game that can contest an ahead ADC is now Mid/Enemy ADC. Top laners and JGs can't break through the new support/adc items (let's not forget about the new GA and other added defensive adc items). Thankfully mages can use their zoning and cc to combat ADCs and ADCs can combat each other if their supp builds the same items.
Im Taylor Swift3 votesi agree something should be done with janna(and i have like 120 ranked games this season with her) after all this support item buffs doesn't matter how fed anyone is you can make your adc inmortal and it's IMO opressive and unfun for the other part... i don't know what should be done though.
rtbf2256182412 votesSoraka?
I have over 3k games on Janna and it's pretty fucking obvious the meta shapes her effectivness. I wouldn't want her to get nerfed because of people who think AP is good on her. You're overestimating how controlling she is. I've never won a lane with a terrible Adc for example.
DaNinad27 votes
SociopathFriend2 votesShe's not though. She's good at exactly one area of supporting and that's peeling for the ADC.
Karfuss1 votesAnd Thresh does that far better, with his cocktail of peeling abilities.
Both Janna and Thresh do well because in solo queue, everyone plays divers. They're both decent counters. Janna enables ADC to do better though, and since they're already quite strong, she is chased by the Boards mob.
The problem is that Boards don't use context. They see statistics, and before considering WHY those statistics are what they are, they create a circlejerk with like minded individuals.
rtbf2256182414 votesShe's as powerful as the meta around her. She's always been that powerful. Remember Season 5 end to Season 6? She fucking sucked when Tanks became the shit.
Just because you have assholes who can make 500 AD and Janna just happens to exist to give 50 extra, is simply an overlook on the balance team's part.
Janna's kit doesn't have any real problems other than not inspiring innovation because i know quite a few tricks you can do with it that i've seen utilized by someone else only a handful of times.
AirKingNeo11 votesExcept Janna is good in solo queue because top laners happen to enjoy playing bruisers instead of tanks. Janna, like Thresh, is insane as countering bruisers.
"Facts are only useful in context."
Karfuss6 votesExcept Janna is good in solo queue because top laners happen to enjoy playing bruisers instead of tanks. Janna, like Thresh, is insane as countering bruisers.
"Facts are only useful in context."
When did Boards ever care about context though?
Tanks think ADCs are OP. ADCs think it's because Supports are OP and think tanks are OP. Support mains are too few.
It's one big ol' circlejerk riddled with confirmation bias.
Anidan2 votesThese are the same boards that will handwave away or outright refuse statistics if they aren't convenient for their narrative. I'm pretty sure preaching about the importance of context on these boards is just speaking to a brick wall.
Big Lincoln7 votesbeen a top pick even in tank metas where bruisers were nowhere to be seen
:thinking:
AirKingNeo2 votesEven in tank metas solo queue top laners played bruisers because tanks aren't fun.
HaIlMonitor3 votesBeing between 49-51% is where champs should sit. But yeah if he is at 53+ for 2 seasons that is a problem.
Fairyfleur2 votesThat type of winrate would be good if every champ was played the same, but it isn't that way. Champions with high playrates should have a lower overall winrate.
Werdx2 votesPantheon has been meta indeed,that's why almost no one plays him.
Again,learn how to play against it.
I guess you play tryndamere or darius. Says enough about you as person.
U R Good At Game2 votesThe problem isn't pantheon. It's top lane. Look at these 4 champs that have been in the top 10 basically since the TP reworks.
What's the similarity? The roam potential replaces TP which is now utter garbage for macro plays. Now that top laners can't use TP to counter-roam these champs due to the many nerfs they are able to gank other lanes uncontested by the other top laner where as before, if I saw pantheon ulting another lane I could TP there and arrive about the same time. Now if panth TP he can kill 2 of my teammates before my TP finishes......their isn't a way to contest the roam making these roaming based champions stronger in top meta.
chipndip15 votesHorribly imbalanced power attribution? Nah, it's the MetA aTM IT'lL shIFt RIGHt guYS?
Big Lincoln4 votesRiot should buff Illaoi to solve the Pantheon problem
chipndip11 votesNot sure if legit counter or a buff to one of your favorite types of champions, but wouldn't that mean the boards would perma-whine about Illaoi until she's nerfed?
Big Lincoln4 votesi think she's a legit counter but let's just say both :^)
no whines about Illaoi would be legitimate, she's high counterplay and high IQ champ
And A Real Hiero14 votesHe needs a VGU.
Frightning10 votesPantheon's always been pretty busted. He needs a real rework to fix his problems though. As it stands, he's a ton of burst and a hard CC in a fairly tanky package=a very bad combination from both a fun and a balance perspective. Fortunately, he tends to not be very effective in teamfights, given that much of his damage can be interrupted (E is a channel), and that damage is his only AoE (other than ult, which should almost never actually land on someone of the damage).
DeusVult8 votesliterally all of panths items where changed in a way that indirectly buff him
This one helped a lot too. Panth didnt really need the out of combat move speed, but adding more damage into his laning trades every 30 seconds is huge.
That, and with most tanks like Mao, Naut, Poppy falling out of the meta in favor of bruisers like Gnar, J4 and others means that Panths life became infinitely easier in top lane
BeatinWarDrumz6 votesPantheon is just a dumb champ frankly and needs a rework. He feels stupid to play against because you can't 1v1 him (like Darius) but you also can't kite him due to his poke and gapcloser, so there is really no way to win lane against him. His kit is very one dimensional and non-interactive - save for timing your passive and w reactivate, I can't think of any "playmaking" combos you can do, and even that barely qualifies.
I feel like if he were reworked into a "hoplite" champion that got a bonus from staying still and allowing champions to attack him, who could really bunker down, that would be cool as there is no champ who can do that in lol currently. Maybe he could have an ability that lowered his movement speed but put up his passive, and any champion who attacked him would be stunned
FireDrizzle5 votesHe may have a higher winrate but the is more balanced than Renekton, Pantheon falls off as soon as laning ends, he doesnt have an op midgame too.
SithesisLord6 votesmore balanced than Renekton
When the joke is so good you forget to laugh.
FireDrizzle4 votesRenekton does see pro play, which proves what I said.
SithesisLord2 votesPantheon's garbage in organized play, that´s why you don´t see him there. It doesn´t have anything to do with him being more balanced than Renekton.
Renekton is a good initiator. He can flank well and builds tanky.
Pantheon? He ults onto a single person and dies without a kill because the team will 100% of the time collapse on him.
That´s not applicable in soloQ most of the time, even in the highest of elos.
Blåbæret4 votesWorst part is that panth is braindead. A monkey could play him to Challenger.
Samura Yukisuna3 votesHonestly, i havent seen a pantheon useful after the 30 minute mark. Doesnt matter how fed he is, beyond 30:00 he relies 100% on his team.
abca9811 votesThe problem is that is hard to get to the 30 minutes mark.
Hoenhiem3 votesWOW an early game champion in an early game meta with a high winrate.
If he gets gutted and the meta shifts, he becomes garbage.
Hammermancer2 votesyou're gonna be like "wut?" but yo check it
try that, it'll win
Salson2 votesHe does need a nerf/skillshot, but Janna, Cho and Malza have a higher winrate. Unless you ment top only.
My Heartshaker3 votesIf they made his Q a skillshot, he would be complete trash-tier on the likes of Azir immediately.
DarkVladimr2 votesHere is a solution. Play top Malzahar, Heimer or Shaco. Huehuehue
Werdx2 votesAll i can see in this topic here is 'nerf champion i have hard time against'
I never see pantheon in my 10-15 games a day.
Only champions i keep seeing over and over again are
YI,Zed,Lee and Yasuo,Orianna,Kog Maw,Lucian,Graves,Lux...
Top ranked people who play those champions have over 80% winrate.
You find 2 guys who play pantheon only, successfully, and you complain.
What about YI being able to 1 vs 5 at level 6 with only one item?
Yasuo being able to 1 vs 5 at level 6 with only one item?
Cog Maw being able to 2 shot you miles away?
Compare all of them to Pantheon,who can't do nothing in game once people obtain armor?
There's a reason why almost no one plays Pantheon.If you think pantheon has easy time,you feel free to get one yourself and climb 'easy' because that's what everyone is doing.They pick champ easy to play and they one button win,like people who play Tryndamere.
Try not to lie with sad sentences like 'its not fun oneshoting,we like champions that takes skill to play' because its not what you are doing.You aren't picking Pantheon for one reason only = there's at least 20 champions who take less skill to play and who own better than pantheon.If Pantheon was like you claiming to be,everyone would play him instead those champions i mentioned above.
Have a wonderful day,and keep in mind one thing
If you have hard time against some champion,try to learn how to play against it.
Low Elo JG EGirl1 votesAll i can see in this topic here is 'nerf champion i have hard time against'
I never see pantheon in my 10-15 games a day.
Only champions i keep seeing over and over again are
YI,Zed,Lee and Yasuo,Orianna,Kog Maw,Lucian,Graves,Lux...
Top ranked people who play those champions have over 80% winrate.
You find 2 guys who play pantheon only, successfully, and you complain.
What about YI being able to 1 vs 5 at level 6 with only one item?
Yasuo being able to 1 vs 5 at level 6 with only one item?
Cog Maw being able to 2 shot you miles away?
Compare all of them to Pantheon,who can't do nothing in game once people obtain armor?
There's a reason why almost no one plays Pantheon.If you think pantheon has easy time,you feel free to get one yourself and climb 'easy' because that's what everyone is doing.They pick champ easy to play and they one button win,like people who play Tryndamere.
Try not to lie with sad sentences like 'its not fun oneshoting,we like champions that takes skill to play' because its not what you are doing.You aren't picking Pantheon for one reason only = there's at least 20 champions who take less skill to play and who own better than pantheon.If Pantheon was like you claiming to be,everyone would play him instead those champions i mentioned above.
Have a wonderful day,and keep in mind one thing
If you have hard time against some champion,try to learn how to play against it.
"Nerf the champ I'm having a hard time against" the only time I have a problem with panth is when I play Yasuo. But usually he's on my ban list when I play Yasuo. Regarding not being able to beat him, I can, he's just a very strong, easy to play, and easy to climb with champ much like annie.
Yi cannot 1v5 lvl 6 with one item, neither can Yasuo. What you're saying is probably an exaggeration but just in case.
Pantheon is an easy to play - easy to climb champ. Literally no one in low elo can beat him, mostly because they don't understand tanks and stuff are in the game.
And it's not always fun one shotting, unless you're playing with friends and/or climbing. It can get boring sometimes but I think one shotting would be cool if every champ could reach that point. But that would be crazy stupid
Hexs Fortune2 votesYea I see a ton of zed, and they usually lose
Report Evelynn2 votesuuuhm Janna? She is a 55,8 lol :D
Corvo Attano1 votesGot that pocket Cloud bro?
Low Elo JG EGirl1 votes[{quoted}](name=Corvo Attano,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=qBuaLv5d,comment-id=0011,timestamp=2017-07-24T02:15:05.197+0000)
Got that pocket Cloud bro?
Not as funny anymore. But no, I have a pocket falcon for dittos and a pocket Shulk.