The thing about Item nerfs.

øHaruø·Mar 17, 2017·5 votes·872 views

Overpowered the item not, unplayable meta is.

This is not the problem. This is, http://i.imgur.com/emy1ndm.png

Let's pretend or whoever abuses lethality were arsonists and was a fireman.

Of course you're going to get the fireman to put out the fire, who in their right mind wouldn't. And seeing as there are so many arsonists, what is the result? Firemen () are being found by everyone.

But for some strange reason, players want to nerf the firemen, let that sink in. These poor regular civilians who need the brave firemen ()) are going to be nerfed? And not the source of the problem?

16 Comments

DynikusMar 17, 20173 votes

Lethality's not really as overbearing as it was before, though. It's a good stat still, but not an overpowered one.

øHaruøMar 17, 20173 votes

{quoted}

Lethality's not really as overbearing as it was before, though. It's a good stat still, but not an overpowered one.

I'm just trying to ride the Upvote wave mang.

But I think this can be applied to a lot of things. Items being nerfed when the actual source of the problem should be nerfed.

Edge of DaybreakMar 17, 20173 votes

Riot is probably not okay with a 12% auto attack reducer being snagged by everyone because you have no actual way of playing around it. Building armor to counter lethality is fine that's how it should be. In return you can build pen to get through armor. However with tabi there is nothing you can do about a flat 12% damage reduction and that is useful against almost anyone considering tanks auto attack, junglers auto attack, mages will auto attack in between cooldowns etc. Now that this is the meta you could straight up remove lethality from the game and people would still go tabi because that much power for 1100 gold is ridiculously good. It also doesn't help that merc treads are really lackluster when everything is knock ups and knock backs now.

øHaruøMar 17, 20172 votes

{quoted}

Riot is probably not okay with a 12% auto attack reducer being snagged by everyone because you have no actual way of playing around it. Building armor to counter lethality is fine that's how it should be. In return you can build pen to get through armor. However with tabi there is nothing you can do about a flat 12% damage reduction and that is useful against almost anyone considering tanks auto attack, junglers auto attack, mages will auto attack in between cooldowns etc. Now that this is the meta you could straight up remove lethality from the game and people would still go tabi because that much power for 1100 gold is ridiculously good. It also doesn't help that merc treads are really lackluster when everything is knock ups and knock backs now.

I'm...I'm just trying to get upvotes.

Edge of DaybreakMar 17, 20171 votes

{quoted}

I'm...I'm just trying to get upvotes.

I know and I gave you upvotes! You took the time to beat the dead horse that is lethality which is one of the current primary circlejerks as a lethality spamming piece of shit assassin player I have to upvote you!

øHaruøMar 17, 20171 votes

{quoted}

I know and I gave you upvotes! You took the time to beat the dead horse that is lethality which is one of the current primary circlejerks as a lethality spamming piece of shit assassin player I have to upvote you!

Irelia BotMar 17, 20173 votes

YOu have no actual way of playing around BC LW and Lethality.

They straight up disregard armor in the same way that Ninja Tabi disregards 12% of auto attack damage.

Edge of DaybreakMar 17, 20172 votes

If an adc builds pure pen I can build up my health as a tank. Now we can disagree on how effective that is but that is an actual way of getting around pen also CC which is kinda just the answer to all things. If I'm a squishy damage dealer than fuck my life either you die or I do which seems fair since we both disregarded resist to build damage.

Irelia BotMar 17, 20171 votes

item 3153

Edge of DaybreakMar 17, 20172 votes

Unless that player sold boots for bork he isn't gonna have cleaver whisper full lethality and bork. You can't go full pen and still get other things not without trade-offs.

However I will say I don't like the way I responded to your first post.

Building around something isn't the same thing as playing around it. You can't really play around ranged auto's due to their targetted nature but you can at best dodge spells or build things like GA or zhonyas depending on your class to play around spells and burst etc which is the primary thing most melee lethality users are going to be hitting you with as well as ranged lethality users. At best you hope to CC them or pop them before they pop you.

Edit. For example a player going full pen won't have crit, attack speed, resist, or lifesteal unless their kit naturally has it.

Irelia BotMar 17, 20171 votes

He doesn't need BC. He just needs a teammate or 2 with BC

Given the common 4 AD teams this is not a problem to come by.

Edge of DaybreakMar 17, 20171 votes

You are right that there is a high chance another teammate has cleaver you could almost say guaranteed considering the current meta. This leaves me at a point where it comes down to what the player trying to deal with the pen does. As if you build armor then pen is going to reduce it to almost nothing and if you build health then bork will eat you alive. At this point I don't really have a good answer for the situation but in league offense should be beating defense in general so maybe riot doesn't want a good answer to offense regardless of how we feel about it.

I still think locking items to classes or changing how pen works currently in response to item changes would be a step in the right direction considering the original formula was changed as a result of game changes anyway perhaps now is the time to change it again.

ParoeMar 17, 20172 votes

{quoted}

If an adc builds pure pen I can build up my health as a tank. Now we can disagree on how effective that is but that is an actual way of getting around pen also CC which is kinda just the answer to all things. If I'm a squishy damage dealer than fuck my life either you die or I do which seems fair since we both disregarded resist to build damage.

item 3031 item 3085 item 3006 item 3814 item 3147 item 3033 item 2140 .

Whats that timmy, the ADC just builds crit and ends up with 300AD, 45% bonus armor penetration, and at least 40 lethality?

You DO realize an actual full penetration build reduces 300 armor ALL THE WAY to 30 armor, right? At 300AD, there is no amount of health unless youre raidboss chogath or raidboss sion that will stop them from killing you. They still have 1.5 attack speed, they still have the range differential, and at that point they may as well be doing true damage.

Edge of DaybreakMar 17, 20171 votes

That's fine IMO because no cleaver is included in that build. Without cleaver a 300 armor build is probably going to be cutting your physical damage by at least 50% also that build is only 30 lethality not 40. I did however make a run page and practice tool this build and i got exactly 300 AD and 44 lethality with runes.

A full pen build doesn't reduce you to 30 armor. It's different depending on the champion as they have different base armors. Thresh and gnar are probably the only ones this could happen to out of actual champions I would expect to be at 300 armor but I'm not going to spend time on that.

A full penetration build should do exactly that penetrate defenses. Yes I do feel a high health tank is a lot better to have vs a full pen building champion . If you do say 400 damage per auto that takes a lot of time. As I have said in other post damage should always outscale defense. Someone building like that dies just as quickly as they kill you. I ignored the potion because it wasn't relevant.

ParoeMar 17, 20171 votes

{quoted}

That's fine IMO because no cleaver is included in that build. Without cleaver a 300 armor build is probably going to be cutting your physical damage by at least 50% also that build is only 30 lethality not 40. I did however make a run page and practice tool this build and i got exactly 300 AD and 44 lethality with runes.

A full pen build doesn't reduce you to 30 armor. It's different depending on the champion as they have different base armors. Thresh and gnar are probably the only ones this could happen to out of actual champions I would expect to be at 300 armor but I'm not going to spend time on that.

A full penetration build should do exactly that penetrate defenses. Yes I do feel a high health tank is a lot better to have vs a full pen building champion . If you do say 400 damage per auto that takes a lot of time. As I have said in other post damage should always outscale defense. Someone building like that dies just as quickly as they kill you. I ignored the potion because it wasn't relevant.

ANYONE else on your team can pick up cleaver. Its a debuff. Your lee sin usually buys cleaver, your bruiser usually picks it up, your offense top usually picks it up. In competetive play its less likely, but in regular ranked its VERY likely youl have at least one.

Edge of DaybreakMar 17, 20172 votes

I was talking about your build you posted. I have already said previously in another that there is a high chance someone has cleaver. League isn't played perfectly by the players there are definitely times when your cleaver wielder is not with you in which case you don't have that pen to aid you. Even then it still does not reduce armor down as much as you claimed. While the value penetrated is still incredibly high I do favor the position that it should be high.