Can we talk about Support itemization ?

Leona is SO HOT·Apr 8, 2019·20 votes·4,681 views

scroll down for TL;DR

maybe am the only one who believes this , but i really really think that compared to items of other roles , support items are lacking

tank support items or just "meh" to me , locket so far is still the best one of them poke/mage support items .. well heh i dont know , so far you just build AP items and just deal DMG to people
enchanters items are the better spot here imo , good stats with good passives/actives

in general i want more options and more support items , why is it that other roles get so many items to choose from while supports are limited to 3-4 items which you are going to buy anyway since those are what you have anyway

i might be biased here but really think that tank support items really needs some work specifically their stats , since true damage is all over the place just raw resistance is useless . tank items have the least impact ,i have played a few times as a tank support with no support items at all except for and in those game i felt no difference at all except for maybe once or twice (per game) i couldve saved someone if i had on me , am not asking for something grand and showy am not asking for 1k shield active am just asking for an active or a passive that can help me and my team as a tank , just make some new creative stuff maybe an aura item or an item heals an ally at the cost of your own health heck or even an item that lets you swap places with targeted ally but gives you a 2 sec stun on your self there is also that one item that i've always wanted back , .. like really freaking loved this item back in the day , it felt rewarding to use just bring it back tweek it a bit , remove the gold generation , aaand done .

this is also true for poke/mage supports , they just build ap and thats it , i dont see any ap support items except for and maybe , which i dont see very often .

i noticed the pattern is that generally supports tend to buy a couple of the already limited options they have and then go for general items that are mainly used in other roles ( which are expensive and arent very supporty )

as for the case where those support items get abused by other laners , the solution is simple make those items have a prerequisite condition of having a income item for unlocking it , just like smite . and another condition making only one income item per team , this way no other laners can abuse it

if all this is done supports will actually be more pleasing to play , the player will feel that he/she has more impact in the game , you will no longer have to DEAL DAMAGE to have an impact there will be other ways now .

EDIT : some people are misunderstanding me here , am just casually looking for ways to improve the support items in general trying figure out some possible solutions , am pointing out that the current items especially the tank support items dont feel good to buy either because the active/passive is either weak or doesnt feel like its really helping . all the while pointing that the CURRENT items need some tweeks ( honestly i want some hp along with the flat resistances , the flat resistances wil be reduced a bit for adding some hp ) but more importantly i want more items to have , more options to buy from , items with new effects and new actives just like those i mentioned ( which are thought of on the spot and are used as just an example ) all what i said in this whole post is for the supports in general but since i am a tank support main i am more knowledgeable about it so im pointing more about it . i want supports have more impact on the game to be more interactive , i dont want just shield bots ( enchanters) stun bots/meatshields ( sup tanks ) DMG bots (poke/mage sup ) i just want the role to be more engaging other than doing these stuff .

#TL;DR

supports dont have alot of item options , supports tend to buy a couple of items from the already limited options they have and then go for general items that are mainly used in other roles ( which are expensive and arent very supporty )
make more items with a sprinkle of some creativity , make those items have a prerequisite condition of having a income item for unlocking it , just like smite . and another condition making only one income item per team , this way no other laners can abuse it

29 Comments

Jimmy RustlesApr 8, 201913 votes

Unfortunately every time they introduce a good support item, another role ends up abusing it and forcing Tito to gut it

People still buy support items regardless of lane

Leona is SO HOTApr 8, 20197 votes

yeah , which is why i suggested that support items cant be bought unless you have a gold income item , and that there could be only one gold income item per team hopefully this will prevent people from abusing it

Jimmy RustlesApr 8, 20193 votes

[{quoted}](name=Leona is SO HOT,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=q0Y2BkPw,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-04-08T16:30:28.437+0000)

yeah , which is why i suggested that support items cant be bought unless you have a gold income item , and that there could be only one gold income item per team hopefully this will prevent people from abusing it

One gold item per team would just open such a can of worms

Buy a support item first just to troll and screw over the support

Leona is SO HOTApr 8, 20192 votes

you are right , i've already thought about such possibility but then again if there is a troll in your team he would troll anyway regardless of the methods available to him

HethaleanApr 8, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Leona is SO HOT,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=q0Y2BkPw,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-04-08T16:30:28.437+0000)

yeah , which is why i suggested that support items cant be bought unless you have a gold income item , and that there could be only one gold income item per team hopefully this will prevent people from abusing it

What happens when the laners buy it first? Laners could almost exclusively buy it first. Though with their recent changes that's less likely since solo laners don't benefit from the gold income items first anymore.

However, your lane partner still might screw you out of it in a meta where the adc takes a support item again (ADC Sona for instance)

Leona is SO HOTApr 8, 20191 votes

i know that my solution isnt perfect , but i dont think that alot of people would be willing to screw their team over , for a good/op build .. that teammate will lose lane which will comeback to bite him in ass , and ends up losing the game anway as result .

i think having a slight chance of this happening is better than than leaving it free for all where any laner can buy it and abuses it every game , making the game very unhealthy

there is also another solution i've thought of which is making these gold income items available only for support champions (similar way to viktor's hexcore item) , but this makes problem for people who might play off meta supports like velkoz or fiddle and so on .. so idk :/

HethaleanApr 8, 20192 votes

[{quoted}](name=Leona is SO HOT,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=q0Y2BkPw,comment-id=0000000000010000,timestamp=2019-04-08T17:10:14.262+0000)

i know that my solution isnt perfect , but i dont think that alot of people would be willing to screw their team over , for a good/op build .. that teammate will lose lane which will comeback to bite him in ass , and ends up losing the game anway as result .

i think having a slight chance of this happening is better than than leaving it free for all where any laner can buy it and abuses it every game , making the game very unhealthy

there is also another solution i've thought of which is making these gold income items available only for support champions (similar way to viktor's hexcore item) , but this makes problem for people who might play off meta supports like velkoz or fiddle and so on .. so idk :/

Yeah, I'm with ya. I'm just trying to further the thoughts to hopefully cover holes and such. It's tough to build kits designed for low income, still feel satisfying to buy and use, and make it so it's not so OP that laners want it.

DCYOUNG888Apr 8, 20191 votes

Like when they nerfed the HP of item 3401 Remnant of the Aspect by 150 and item 3118 Knight's Vow by 100 right? They nerfed them because the other roles were abusing it but then tank supports lost about roughly 350 hp because they didn't want other roles to keep abusing it. Honestly that was a pretty bad decision of them to make and tanks have a harder time getting high hp from their items unless they resort to non-support items (which is very counterintuitive). Like Leona is SO HOT said it should be linked to the support trinket item, and already Riot changed the jungler items so that junglers can't have a gold income item at the same time anymore since patch 8.10 so by that time there was no need to give remnant of the aspect an hp nerf anymore and should be rebuffed back to it's original stats.

Sir SaltarinApr 8, 20198 votes

i might be biased here but really think that tank support items really needs some work specifically their stats , since true damage and lethality are all over the place just raw resistance is useless .

Raw armor is literally the counter of Lethality bruh

SalronApr 8, 20191 votes

For some reason people have a hard time understanding that if it wasn't for the extra resist you buy, flat pen would be hitting your base resistances instead

Leona is SO HOTApr 8, 20192 votes

i was talking in general there , i what i really want is some hp with those flat resistances , i just really deslike those items with just flat armor + magic resistance and thats it . i want those items to give you either armor + hp or MR + hp , tank supports dont get alot of bonus hp and the only way to get some real extra hp is to buy one those expensive top lane tank items

Crispy0SnakeApr 8, 20194 votes

Yeah support items have to be cheap so that a support can build it, but not slot efficient so a jungler/laner would build it and get an early powerspike for free

Enchanters and mage supports have lots of options, not really worth touching

I think tank supports should have some extra options open to them. item 3800 is really good but you need 1100 gold as a support to complete the item and get the active. Mikkaels+Redemption SHOULD be viable too but it's just not atm because you don't quite get the stats.

I also think Sunfire cape should be cheaper if you want Zekes+Sunfire damage, because tank toplaners don't buy that item anymore really

Done25Apr 8, 20194 votes

Support items need to be tied to support actions. item 3504 and item 3174 are then best examples of this as they're difficult to use for mages like Brand and Vel'koz unless they feel like dipping into Font of Life for some odd reason.

Nea104Apr 8, 20192 votes

They - are - NOT - supports.

(jk, but not that much)

Done25Apr 8, 20192 votes

{quoted}

They - are - NOT - supports.

(jk, but not that much)

Which is why support items should be designed in such a way that Brand and Vel'koz can't use them.

AHarmlessTacoApr 8, 20193 votes

While there are not excessive options available, supports do have enough access to cheap, powerful items in every game. You always want boots and your GP5 item, so compared to other champions you actually have 1 less item slot.

item 3117 item 3158 item 3069 item 3401 item 3092

Redemption and Mikaels are items that can be picked up on nearly every support, item 3107 item 3222 While enchanters have access to item 3504 item 3174 item 3905 item 2065 And wardens have access to item 3109 item 3190 item 3110 item 3050 Thus giving both enchanters and wardens access to 6 different items to fill 4 slots. Even though you don't have a ton of options, most of these items are very good and are going to be desired as you progress through each match, just in different orders.

Aside from those options, it isn't really a bad thing for supports to claim one or two items from the rest available as their final items. Support items are terrible slot inefficient and if you ever actually find yourself late game with extra gold, buying more efficient items is probably a good way to go. Those games are pretty rare though.

item 3001 item 3143 item 3022 item 3089 item 3102 item 3030

RavenhaleApr 8, 20191 votes

Locket is so... meh. It's shield is based off levels and bonus HP, which you won't have much of when running as a support tank. Even having it as the 4th item after Vow, it still feels pretty weak.

That said, pairing it with Warmog's, Randuin's or Visage might make it a worthy 5th item. Haven't had too many games get to 5th item point, but it's certainly a thought.

AHarmlessTacoApr 8, 20191 votes

At level 10 with Revitalize, item 3401 and item 3109 you're looking at a 315 shield times a potential of 5 champions for a total of up to 1575 shield. I wouldn't say that is weak in the slightest. Even if you only tag yourself and your ADC, thats still 630 points of damage you can absorb from an aoe spell.

I will say though that it is a hard item to use and balance. I've gone games where I only manage to shield 178 worth of damage and cry, and I've gone games where I've shielded upwards of 1000 at one time. I do really miss FoTM for early game or anti-assassin shielding though because Locket can be so unwieldy.

RavenhaleApr 8, 20192 votes

To be honest, you only get to build like two items other than your boots and gold item. I religiously build Knight's Vow out of habit. It might not even be the best thing to do. The other item depends on what seems to be killing me so fast that I can't peel/tank.

The thigh guyApr 8, 20192 votes

They could very very very easily lock a support item to supports with the monster hunter debuff junglers used to get, but just make it static. So supports can actually have a REALLY good item that laners can’t abuse unless they full buy the item and put off EVERY other item after it.

SylasApr 8, 20192 votes

Okay, So what about Ardent Censor. Is basically a mage item but it has 10 less ap than other mage items and with a very powerful passive and decent stats. Without passives included it is just over 100% gold efficient on its own but you add the passive and include having 1 ally shielded it becomes over 200% gold efficient. While some support items may feel underwhelming damage wise, you may have to stop and look at the passives and other stats to realise how strong some of them actually are. Just my thoughts, I could be completely wrong here

SylasApr 8, 20192 votes

As for your comment about create and item that heals your ally for the cost of your own health. Try looking at Knight's Vow

NaonoApr 8, 20192 votes

I have a possible solution which creates an issue but I also have a solution which will create another issue but there's another possible solution.

So... When riot release Nexus blitz and got jg role, smite was automatically equipped. This tells me the game is able to tell what role you got.

So... What if supports items was only purchasable by the support role. Or you the support role automatically get a starter support item in the slot which is swappable for any other starter support item. Sorta like open spell book. But can only be swapped once (for the entire match) when in fountain.

Issue: Blind pick. In blind pick you don't queue for roles.

On the pbe, you can queue for roles without the ban phase.

Issue: auto fill. This shouldn't really be an issue as if you have a slow internet (like me) you will get auto fill anyway. lol. Another thing is that queue times can be longer but they can always increase auto fill rate so it occurs more often.

Or they can make this a draft thing only. So blind pick won't be affected. This I believe will require some engineering work. x.x

Anyway, just my two cents.

hiyaresApr 8, 20191 votes

but support is honestly one of the most stacked roles atm with itemiation/variety in terms of solo que....... i mean there is a reason you are now seeing pro play abuse double support double support item bot......... the sad truth is support items offer a lot in the actives or passive effects of their items compared to gold value then if yo uwanna talk about itemization tanks in general are fucked they have limited options vs anything but everyone else have runes and items to boost their effects easy gold easy poke free damage from suport item in solo que yuo will see full ap builds in all honesty i think support in general needs a nerf in the sense of income. the old gp10s made more sense to me becasue it was health but the support items again are generally made for the actives not the stats those should be a luxury. also some suports have decent base or ratio damages for what they are even supposed to do so it just doesnt make sense to me that supports should get the amount of free gold they do. I forgot to mention ever since the vision rework supports lost a gold sink.... yes everyone should buy wards but supports were the main buyer of wards aiding in keeping their items from being full build as fast as a laner.

Le me cure UApr 8, 20191 votes

Tank/cc supports lack of an item like item 3165 , especially when you have to deal with healing lords(vlad , swain, mundo) beside the enemy adc . Yes you can always buy executioner but i find myself pretty much never use my AA constantly to refresh the active.

SylasApr 8, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Le me cure U,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=q0Y2BkPw,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2019-04-08T17:24:50.955+0000)

Tank/cc supports lack of an item like , especially when you have to deal with healing lords(vlad , swain, mundo) beside the enemy adc . Yes you can always buy executioner but i find myself pretty much never use my AA constantly to refresh the active.

Your adc has to buy the healing cut not you in that case also your mage midlaner would want to buy it

Metal JannaApr 8, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Leona is SO HOT,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=q0Y2BkPw,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-04-08T16:12:52.803+0000) there is also that one item that i've always wanted back , .. like really freaking loved this item back in the day , it felt rewarding to use just bring it back tweek it a bit , remove the gold generation , aaand done .

I don't know if you know this already, but Overheal is really good on Rakan right now. He lands a Q and it stacks up a decent shield on him if he's already full HP. It's too bad he's the only engage support with a self-heal.

Cry of the CeltsApr 8, 20192 votes

Alistar

ParoeApr 8, 20191 votes

@thread The issue with support items is that they HAVE to be weak in order to be purchased effectively by supports and supports are not allowed to have a proper income. Honestly speaking, supports NEED a real income equal to that of other laners... or at least, they need a second supplementary income.

Why not reintroduce bandit to the rift? item 3301 item 3302 item 3303 ; Bandit: While an ally is nearby (1500 rage), when an enemy minion is killed by an ally gain 5 gold. This way a supports gold income is dramatically increased and they can actually afford to purchase real items. Lackluster support items like knights vow and locket could also be buffed with this. Adding a item 1011 to their recipes would be AMAZING.