Remember how Draven passive got reworked ? I think Kalista should get the same treatment

PivovarnaLaško·Jun 30, 2015·2 votes·882 views

Its just stupid ...

9 Comments

DivewingJun 30, 20151 votes

Broken passive. It's not OP it's just broken, if it isn't good enough it'll be complete garbage, and if it is good enough then it's kinda OP.

PivovarnaLaškoJun 30, 20151 votes

I am not suggesting gutting her If not rework just making it so slows decrease the leap range up to a cap or something...

JustMyBassCannonJun 30, 20151 votes

While you're not completely wrong, there's a pretty significant difference.

Draven's passive was a problem of adding too much damage to an already high-DPS kit. To expand on that, he was the only ADC in the game that could deal 100+ damage with a single attack at level 1...and that attack has a refreshing cooldown about as frequent as his base AS, that early in the game. (50 * 1.45) + 34 = 106 damage without any items, runes or masteries. And because of how the bleed stacked (infinitely adding up the total damage, then ticking the damage over time), it was always effectively that much damage per Spinning Axe at level 1.

Put shortly; Draven harass hurt like hell.

They changed his passive to reduce his utterly ruinous early-game strength. He can still have a good early-game, but now (a) it's not as easy because he doesn't have so much free damage, and (b) any lead he gains is held back by item capping sooner than most champs.

Kalista's passive, on the other hand, is a core function to her kit. It's not an extraneous, lore-related bonus, it's what they specifically wanted in her kit.

Möral SupportJun 30, 20151 votes

Newsflash kallista 1 point in e can deal 120 dmg Atleast

JustMyBassCannonJun 30, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Newsflash kallista 1 point in e can deal 120 dmg Atleast

News Flash: Kalista's E is not her passive.

Also, (a) you have her E damage wrong, at 1 point it's not going to deal 120 damage without 3-5 attacks, depending on if she has >80 AD at level 1, and (b) I am not comparing Draven's damage output, pre- or post-change; I am pointing out that Draven's change was a loss of an extraneous effect that granted too much damage, whereas this thread is talking about Kalista's dash passive, which is an integral part of her kit.

Möral SupportJun 30, 20151 votes

I understand that but draven was NOT doing 100 dmg with his auto attacks with the bleed passive. He did more than 100 dmg with his q active and the bleed combined, therefore, your argument is also invalid. And Kalista's e if you have even 80 ad does 30(+15) making her auto do 75(ish) with 45 extra damage.

JustMyBassCannonJun 30, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I understand that but draven was NOT doing 100 dmg with his auto attacks with the bleed passive. He did more than 100 dmg with his q active and the bleed combined, therefore, your argument is also invalid.

I never said your argument was invalid in the first place, only that you went on a complete tangent.

As for Draven, his Q is a low-cost, infinitely refreshing attack buff. His passive was about 1/3 of the total damage of his basic attacks. That's not a small amount.

And Kalista's e if you have even 80 ad does 30(+15) making her auto do 75(ish) with 45 extra damage.

Kalista's E at rank 1 is 20 (+60%) + 10 (+20%) per subsequent attack. At level 1, she has 53 base AD. Basically, the total damage of her first attack with Rend added will be worth ~105, and subsequent attacks will be worth ~74, assuming she uses Rend in the first place.

The difference is that she actually has to use Rend, and once she uses it, she can't use it again--or even gain stacks for it--for the next 14 seconds. Draven's Spinning Axe is a constant thing that he can permanently reuse.

Möral SupportJun 30, 20151 votes

Sorry i got my numbers wrong, but in all Kalista with AD runes would do 70~ per auto attack to another ADC and then have a 55~ damage rend on top of that would result in her doing way more damage than Draven EVER did. Lets just all agree CertainlyT made a champion that is way too good for this world, and needs retoned by another designer, maybe ezreal?

If Draven would also miss his axe its on a 12 second cool down making it close to Kalista's rend cool down. I would also like to say I do find Kalista broken as all hell because un-cancel-able auto attacks that are undodgable other than going out of vision is broken. Draven's auto attacks do the same thing but they can be canceled. I think draven requires a LOT more skill but gets less of a reward than Kalista does.

JustMyBassCannonJun 30, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Sorry i got my numbers wrong, but in all Kalista with AD runes would do 70~ per auto attack to another ADC and then have a 55~ damage rend on top of that would result in her doing way more damage than Draven EVER did.

Mathematically, provably false. Draven with his old passive was dealing 34 + 145% AD per basic attack at level 1. Kalista + Rend, assuming you're allowed as many stacks as you want, gets 20 +160% AD for the first attack, then 10 +120% AD per subsequent attack; from 2 attacks up, Draven's total damage is higher for every basic attack.

Kalista 1 hit: 20 + 160% AD Draven 1 hit: 34 + 145% AD (Kalista beats Draven at 93 AD, assuming same AD)

Kalista 2 hits: 30 + 280% AD Draven 2 hits: 68 + 290% AD

Kalista 3 hits: 40 + 400% AD Draven 3 hits: 102 + 435% AD

Draven even has higher base AS, so he's allowed to deal his damage faster and scale more with bonus AS.

So, yeah, let's just call your argument rent in twain.

Draven lost his old passive because it was too much damage for free, and it was. I, as a Draven player, completely agree with the change to his current passive.

Lets just all agree CertainlyT made a champion that is way too good for this world, and needs retoned by another designer, maybe ezreal?

Not really. I think Kalista's passive is a bit much, but not so much to publicly condemn a programmer for it.

If Draven would also miss his axe its on a 12 second cool down making it close to Kalista's rend cool down.

And if Kalista doesn't use her E, she doesn't get her Rend damage. Fancy that, screwing up means lost potential. It's almost a universal truth with champions.

I would also like to say I do find Kalista broken as all hell because un-cancel-able auto attacks that are undodgable other than going out of vision is broken. Draven's auto attacks do the same thing but they can be canceled. I think draven requires a LOT more skill but gets less of a reward than Kalista does.

Basic attacks aren't avoidable in the first place, so I don't see why Kalista's make it special.