Clearly the 6.14 Taliyah changes have failed.

Hrd2H1t·Jul 20, 2016·3 votes·1,142 views

Champion.gg - Taliyah Middle Stats, Builds, Runes, Masteries and Counters

According to this website, Taliyah's win rate from patch 6.13 to patch 6.14 has dropped form around 52% to around 46%. I understand that the changes in 6.14 were meant to make the champion easier to play, but they just took away her "hard to master, but then hard to beat" status. I used to main Taliyah shortly after launch when she was a disruption mage with hard yet rewarding playstyle but now she's just a mediocre combo mage who pails in comparison to the likes of Brand, Xerath, and Vel'Koz. I would say that its better to have a hard champion than a bad champion. Its ok if there isn't a lot of people playing her, people are naturally going to be attracted to what they can do the best with while inputting minimal effort. Making her have a more simple and less effective playstyle just makes her appeal to even less people.

21 Comments

CalabokJul 20, 20161 votes

No, it has succeeded

AzereilJul 21, 20161 votes

{quoted}

No, it has succeeded

It has succeeded in making her incapable of being played competitively.

BloodyTomponJul 21, 20161 votes

It will be a massive buff for her in the competitive scene. Now pros don't have to learn a unique targeting specifically for her and can use the vector casting they are already accustomed to.

AzereilJul 21, 20161 votes

{quoted}

It will be a massive buff for her in the competitive scene. Now pros don't have to learn a unique targeting specifically for her and can use the vector casting they are already accustomed to.

That doesn't indicate failure. It's more likely indicative of people adapting to the change.

An 8% win rate loss tanking her 38 positions "making the champ easier" isn't a failure? No one is complaining about the dps drop, but changing a champ for uniformity sake when the champ itself was designed against that uniformity with a rhythm in mind implies riot doesn't want diversity in their lineup. Which is strange cause they made this weird champ that a lot of people loved, and now essentially took it away.

It's not about her power level, it's about being able to do the things she's designed to do.

If you think Pros need vector casting on taliyah to play her, I think the pros should suck less.

DynikusJul 20, 20161 votes

If you look at winrate for people who have actually played her more than a couple of times, it's right around 50%. My guess is people heard she got changed, played her in a game or two and did poorly, then didn't play her again.

inplaneJul 21, 20162 votes

{quoted}

If you look at winrate for people who have actually played her more than a couple of times, it's right around 50%. My guess is people heard she got changed, played her in a game or two and did poorly, then didn't play her again.

Sadly, that's also what people did when she was initially released.

It's clear that the boards don't want her reverted out of spite. No one talks about the fact that her playstyle has been completely shifted or the fact that her W is one of the most deceptive skills to use now. I'm not trying to be blunt, but that's what it looks like as of now.

CerealBoxOfDoomJul 21, 20162 votes

{quoted}

Sadly, that's also what people did when she was initially released.

It's clear that the boards don't want her reverted out of spite. No one talks about the fact that her playstyle has been completely shifted or the fact that her W is one of the most deceptive skills to use now. I'm not trying to be blunt, but that's what it looks like as of now.

I found that if I left click I can no longer cancel her cast

DynikusJul 21, 20161 votes

her W is one of the most deceptive skills to use now.

I have absolutely no idea what you're referring to.

inplaneJul 21, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I have absolutely no idea what you're referring to.

Well of course you wouldn't after playing 6 games and losing 4 of them. But it's okay. You better preserve that 59% winrate with her. Y'know, when she was actually better to use.

DynikusJul 21, 20161 votes

Care to explain why her W is "deceptive" rather than use ad hominem? The only game I even went negative since her rework I had 32 assists, and 2 of the 6 I believe I got an S despite the rest of my team not doing so well. I'm still going to play her in ranked, I just haven't played ranked in a while.

AzereilJul 21, 20162 votes

{quoted}

Care to explain why her W is "deceptive" rather than use ad hominem? The only game I even went negative since her rework I had 32 assists, and 2 of the 6 I believe I got an S despite the rest of my team not doing so well. I'm still going to play her in ranked, I just haven't played ranked in a while.

Her W still has a cast time but cannot be altered like it used to. In prior casting you could change directions during the cast time based on enemy reactions to the visual indicator that appears when you begin. You cannot do that with vector casting and it eliminated one of taliyahs trickiest tools (one that was intentional in the kit).

I just went from Silver 5 to Plat 5 on nothing but tay and not having that trick would have set me back pretty hard.

I agree with the dps drop, but taliyah is not a vector casting champ. The only excuse anyone can give is that it was for uniformity and that's a terrible reason. Don't Harrison Bergeron our beautiful stoneweaver, plz.

DynikusJul 21, 20161 votes

That's not "deceptive" though, that's just a change in the way it's cast, which Riot was pretty clear about. By removing that, they added a lot of undodgeable burst if you can just hit with her w. It certainly changed her play style some, that's beside the point. I'm just curious why he was saying her W is the most deceptive skill to use now. The only thing I can think of is the removal of the circle indicator for where it hits, but just playing her you learn that pretty fast.

AzereilJul 21, 20161 votes

{quoted}

That's not "deceptive" though, that's just a change in the way it's cast, which Riot was pretty clear about. By removing that, they added a lot of undodgeable burst if you can just hit with her w. It certainly changed her play style some, that's beside the point. I'm just curious why he was saying her W is the most deceptive skill to use now. The only thing I can think of is the removal of the circle indicator for where it hits, but just playing her you learn that pretty fast.

It's not undodgable because it's still got a lockout between cast and execution, except now you can't adjust it based on player behavior.

We're basing the validity of your statement on the fact you're silver V and playing at anything above Gold is a different game entirely. I'm glad you're not noticing the changes but those of us fighting much better people notice them heavily.

DynikusJul 21, 20161 votes

They very explicitly removed the lockout, and you can chain an undodgeable E-Q directly afterwards, as has even been stated by rioters. Do you mean to say there's a delay between when you cast W and when it actually hits?

And my rank really isn't of significance, as even during placements and while in b1 directly after, I was playing mostly against high silver/low gold players. I just haven't played enough ranked games yet to get to around where my skill level currently sits. If you feel like playing that game though, I see you've gone positive in 9 of the past 40 games you played with taliyah, which includes games played before the changes were implemented. Perhaps you're not the best judge of where the champion is at the moment either?

inplaneJul 21, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Care to explain why her W is "deceptive" rather than use ad hominem? The only game I even went negative since her rework I had 32 assists, and 2 of the 6 I believe I got an S despite the rest of my team not doing so well. I'm still going to play her in ranked, I just haven't played ranked in a while.

Her W target reticle doesn't even represent what it does. If that isn't deceptive towards the player I don't know what is, especially if this is aimed to appease new players. It's delay from input and the actual spell itself is also hard to get right for new players.

In a game like League, it's all about experience and data to back opinions up. You can't say things without some kind of proof that shows you know what you're talking about.

DynikusJul 21, 20161 votes

You were basing the validity of my statement solely on the number of w/l I've had with her this patch. I would say 5 hours or however long those games were plus whatever custom games I've played with her is enough to adapt to a small change to the cast type of one skill, especially when I've also played a number of games with viktor.

I'll agree and have said in other threads that removing the circle indicator didn't make much sense, and certainly doesn't make her easier for new players to pick her up since they have to learn the area her W effects without any indication.

inplaneJul 21, 20161 votes

{quoted}

You were basing the validity of my statement solely on the number of w/l I've had with her this patch. I would say 5 hours or however long those games were plus whatever custom games I've played with her is enough to adapt to a small change to the cast type of one skill, especially when I've also played a number of games with viktor.

I'll agree and have said in other threads that removing the circle indicator didn't make much sense, and certainly doesn't make her easier for new players to pick her up since they have to learn the area her W effects without any indication.

Sorry. I only had so much things to base off. I've seen too much opinions passed around on these boards like they actually mattered when they contained no validity to them whatsoever (Such as when people said her W being unclear is not a valid reason for tweaking it).

About the circle indicator, that's exactly what I'm pissed about. Riot changed it so that she's easier to pick up for newer players. Instead, they basically did the complete opposite and divided the playerbase altogether instead of attracting newer players.

AzereilJul 21, 20161 votes

{quoted}

If you look at winrate for people who have actually played her more than a couple of times, it's right around 50%. My guess is people heard she got changed, played her in a game or two and did poorly, then didn't play her again.

Winrate per Games Played is over the entire existence of her as a champ. It doesn't display the data you would need to make that claim.

CalabokJul 21, 20161 votes

just change the way you used to play her. stop whining to have it changed.

AzereilJul 21, 20161 votes