Ahri has the lowest winrate of all apc

Ahris··5 votes·1,159 views

Before y'all say anything, i got to explain. Look at champion.gg and sort the data to only midlane. Click on the winrate thingy and you will find Ahri pretty low. I know what y'all will say and probably will say I AM A LIAR. Okay, hear me out okay?

Notice anything noticeable about champs under ahri? Yeah you noticed it, those are mostly supports, some top lane, some that are used consistently in competitive, and finally champs that are left where they are because of how broken their kit is when viable.

So, now you may say Ahri is completely fine. Yes I agree, she may be fine, but opposed to other midlaners? Not really. You may have seen or had success with Ahri but it does not change the fact that the success you had with Ahri can easily be done with other midlaners and get an even higher winrate.

Now what should be done? Well nerf the obvious broken ones. Then we'll see.

36 Comments

Carrie Pigeon4 votes

Kind of ranted here so have a Tl;Dr. Ahri is in a fine spot as they've had a great history of being a high playrate and winrate champion with the most recent time of them dipping below 50% winrate was pre January 2015. Her winrate should be lower due to more people playing them and thus when compared to say Fiddlesticks they can be seen as rubbish as they have a bigger crowd playing them as opposed to strictly mains.

Ahri is perfectly fine at the moment and simply isn't the freelo solo queue champion she was a few patches back. On 7.11 she was nerfed and since then she has dropped from 51.76% down to our current 49.97% which isn't severe at all. This has been the first patch in quite a while. According to LeagueofGraphs.com (Used this site as it can be semi accurate and has shown the longest time for winrates, banrates etc) Her last dip below 50% winrate for mid lane was a little before January of 2015. Her being "weak" for a single patch does not instantly mean she needs buffs or that everyone who does well against her deserves a nerf.

Ahri has fallen a bit below due to both her nerfs and a slight shift in the meta. As it stands Ahri is pretty much perfectly fine and it would be extremely hard for this champion to become irrelevant or weak simply due to how loaded their kit is. Having heals, true damage, AOE, Hard CC, Several dashes, and something I personally find important the power to poke through minions.

One very important think to take notice about Ahris winrate is also her playrate. She has one of the highest playrates in the game sitting around 9.5% and this typically means the winrate will also be low simply due to the higher playerbase and more people seeing the champion and thus wanting to try it. On a champion like this a winrate a bit below 50% is perfectly fine. A good champion to look at for this example would be Lee Sin or Thresh as both are some exetremely popular champions who are perfectly fine in solo queue however due to a higher playrate they're bound to have a lower winrate unless the meta heavily favors the champion or they're simply broken.

A great example of the opposite effect would be Fiddlesticks who sits at a 1.08% playrate in the jungle while having a 54.6% winrate. Due to this low playrate only people who hardcore love Fiddlesticks are going to be consistently playing him and thus due to their experienced on the champion the winrate will be boosted.

Ahris1 votes

[{quoted}](name=A Real Pigeon,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pKdZIzv2,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2017-08-29T05:42:49.705+0000)

Kind of ranted here so have a Tl;Dr. Ahri is in a fine spot as they've had a great history of being a high playrate and winrate champion with the most recent time of them dipping below 50% winrate was pre January 2015. Her winrate should be lower due to more people playing them and thus when compared to say Fiddlesticks they can be seen as rubbish as they have a bigger crowd playing them as opposed to strictly mains.

Ahri is perfectly fine at the moment and simply isn't the freelo solo queue champion she was a few patches back. On 7.11 she was nerfed and since then she has dropped from 51.76% down to our current 49.97% which isn't severe at all. This has been the first patch in quite a while. According to LeagueofGraphs.com (Used this site as it can be semi accurate and has shown the longest time for winrates, banrates etc) Her last dip below 50% winrate for mid lane was a little before January of 2015. Her being "weak" for a single patch does not instantly mean she needs buffs or that everyone who does well against her deserves a nerf.

Ahri has fallen a bit below due to both her nerfs and a slight shift in the meta. As it stands Ahri is pretty much perfectly fine and it would be extremely hard for this champion to become irrelevant or weak simply due to how loaded their kit is. Having heals, true damage, AOE, Hard CC, Several dashes, and something I personally find important the power to poke through minions.

One very important think to take notice about Ahris winrate is also her playrate. She has one of the highest playrates in the game sitting around 9.5% and this typically means the winrate will also be low simply due to the higher playerbase and more people seeing the champion and thus wanting to try it. On a champion like this a winrate a bit below 50% is perfectly fine. A good champion to look at for this example would be Lee Sin or Thresh as both are some exetremely popular champions who are perfectly fine in solo queue however due to a higher playrate they're bound to have a lower winrate unless the meta heavily favors the champion or they're simply broken.

A great example of the opposite effect would be Fiddlesticks who sits at a 1.08% playrate in the jungle while having a 54.6% winrate. Due to this low playrate only people who hardcore love Fiddlesticks are going to be consistently playing him and thus due to their experienced on the champion the winrate will be boosted.

Thanks for great reply! I will definitely try to wait it out to see what will happen, I hope Ahri will be fine. Ahri's winrate being the worst from all apc is what I wanted to discuss, but whatever. Riot does whatever they want anyway. Ahri is fine, but other midlaners need nerf.

Carrie Pigeon1 votes

{quoted}

Thanks for great reply! I will definitely try to wait it out to see what will happen, I hope Ahri will be fine. Ahri's winrate being the worst from all apc is what I wanted to discuss, but whatever. Riot does whatever they want anyway. Ahri is fine, but other midlaners need nerf.

Ahri is far from the lowest winrate as far as APCs go. Champions such as Taliyah, Cassiopea, Ryze, Azir, Leblanc, Syndra, Veigar, and Akali are below her winrate according to OP.GGs statistics.

Ahris1 votes

[{quoted}](name=A Real Pigeon,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pKdZIzv2,comment-id=000700000000,timestamp=2017-08-29T13:40:51.543+0000)

Ahri is far from the lowest winrate as far as APCs go. Champions such as Taliyah, Cassiopea, Ryze, Azir, Leblanc, Syndra, Veigar, and Akali are below her winrate according to OP.GGs statistics.

Ya.... lowest winrate when you remove competitive viable picks, top laners, and champs that Riot nerfed because of how oppressive they are when viable. Ryze and akali is a top laner or a middle laner(so need to check both but Ryze is exception- read sentence before). Taly, Cass, Leblanc, and Syndra are all competitively viable picks so they are much stronger in an organized comp. However once you remove them there you have Ahri, but in both organized comp and not organized comp that makes her bad.

As result it means Ahri is a horrible pick in competitive and soloque. Which makes her the worst apc in general.

PopcornBunni1 votes

She pretty handily counters other assassins barring Ekko Kassadin, the latter of whom counters all AP midlaners.

PhaseDives1 votes

ekko counter all ap midlaners? haHAA 12 btw

PopcornBunni2 votes

{quoted}

ekko counter all ap midlaners? haHAA 12 btw

You know what the word "latter" means, yes?

ModWulf Helhammer1 votes

I mean he is 12...

Ahris1 votes

{quoted}

I mean he is 12...

Even though I am not 12 I think looking down on kids is very closed minded. Kids generate tons of new ideas and learn so much everyday. There are things in which kids find that adults never found before. Kids are innocent and pure, thus give unbiased judgements. One example is a story about a Naked Emperor. Everytime he walked everyone around him praised the cloth he was wearing. Why? Because the civilians thought that they have to look highly of all stupid things the king does since King has all the power. The king himself was confused since he thought he was naked, but everyone else praised him anyway. So one day the king was in a march and one boy came and said, "Your naked!" There is a lesson to be learned here. Kids can speak out to things people lie to themselves about. I will not say I am that child, because I am not that young anymore, but looking down on youngsters shows how much knowledge you still do not have. This is about life, not league, so I may very well just be bad at league lol.

ModWulf Helhammer1 votes

It's a joke.

Ahris1 votes

{quoted}

It's a joke.

O, no problem. Say that earlier next time xD

edit: we should play together sometime, I want to see your Ahri to know more about why you think about ahri in a certain way.

KoKoboto1 votes

Other here.

You repulse me.

Ahris1 votes

{quoted}

Other here.

You repulse me.

Beep beeep

Zero Shingetsu1 votes

The problem with sites like these is twofold. First, they don't consider out-of-meta picks. I have a 79% win rate over 200+ games on my JP account with LeBlanc. Sites like these record that as midlane wins, only I play her support with mobility and tank items. Second, they don't factor quantitative amalgamation into things like win rates, so the numbers are deceptive.

Final Spark Lux1 votes

Winrate isn't as clear cut as it seems. A lot of variables can effect it. For instance, if a bunch of bad people start playing ahri in preparation for her new skin release and lose, her winrate will drop even though shes completely fine. And I don't say that because I don't want ahri buffs or anything, I say that because I really believe she's fine right now, and a lot of bads are driving her winrate down. It wasn't this low a few weeks ago, if you can even consider JUST under 50% low, which is actually what riot strives for; right around 50%

KoKoboto1 votes

It's literally 50%... 49.97% winrate? OP needs to sit down man :T

Final Spark Lux2 votes

It's Ahris tho. I expect an ahri QQ thread at least once a day lol.

Ahris1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Final Spark Lux,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pKdZIzv2,comment-id=000300000000,timestamp=2017-08-29T05:49:33.338+0000)

It's Ahris tho. I expect an ahri QQ thread at least once a day lol.

And ofc Final Spark Lux is speaking against the buff. Very not biased.

Please Lux. You received many unnecessary buffs in order to get her ultimate skin to actually sell.

Lauchmelder1 votes

And Ahri was OP for far too long for the same reason.

What, 53% winrate with a 20% pickrate is not problematic? Come on, give us a break.

Infernape1 votes

It was higher. It peaked somewhere near 60% IIRC.

Final Spark Lux1 votes

Feel free to take a look at Lux's history from her release upto now. Any buff she's received has been utility buffs only, with the exception of a very slight buff to her passive in 6.14, which at the same time they actually reduced the damage of Light Binding. These supposed "buffs" did nothing to touch her damage, and she's still considered to be one of the weaker mids, currently sitting at 48.3% WR, and 46.82% for support.

I don't know where you heard she got "many unnecessary buffs" because she never did. Please take the time to do some research if you're gonna claim something. And another thing, just because my name is Lux related doesn't mean I'm not unbiased. Maybe you didn't read the first comment that clearly outlines why Ahri is currently fine, and why her winrate is most likely dipping. In a perfect world, every champion is at 50% winrate. Ahri is .03% under 50, and that's counting all the new people playing her in prep for her skin release. She's fine because stats say so, not because I'm biased against ahri buffs.

Ahris1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Final Spark Lux,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pKdZIzv2,comment-id=00030000000000000001,timestamp=2017-08-29T16:12:51.015+0000)

Feel free to take a look at Lux's history from her release upto now. Any buff she's received has been utility buffs only, with the exception of a very slight buff to her passive in 6.14, which at the same time they actually reduced the damage of Light Binding. These supposed "buffs" did nothing to touch her damage, and she's still considered to be one of the weaker mids, currently sitting at 48.3% WR, and 46.82% for support.

I don't know where you heard she got "many unnecessary buffs" because she never did. Please take the time to do some research if you're gonna claim something. And another thing, just because my name is Lux related doesn't mean I'm not unbiased. Maybe you didn't read the first comment that clearly outlines why Ahri is currently fine, and why her winrate is most likely dipping. In a perfect world, every champion is at 50% winrate. Ahri is .03% under 50, and that's counting all the new people playing her in prep for her skin release. She's fine because stats say so, not because I'm biased against ahri buffs.

Lux's damage was not the problem at all though. Also she has 50.95% winrate. What site are you using for her winrate? Also utility buff is utility buff, Lux did not need extra damage but rather more utility. Also the buff Lux received a while ago just made Lux a very oppressive laner(e instant detonate)

Also her winrate accounts for plays above plat. Meaning, diamond, masters, and challenger. There players who play Ahri are players who very well understand Ahris' kit. This is not normals where you try out a champ for the first time.

Also the data is comparing all midlane picks with each other, and overall ahri has more loss than wins. I did say Ahri is the worst mid laner because if you look at champs below her, those are champs that have a reason why they are there. Whether they may be a top laner, support midlaner, competitvely viable midlaner, and champs that riot broke because of how broken they are when viable... only Ahri seems left out.

The buff Ahri needs is very clear, damage buff. Ahri's survivability is fine, her utility is decent, but her damage is the only problem. Even when Ahri lives most of the time and survive many fights, it does not mean the team will win. This is the problem. Ahri's existence as a champ that is always surviving applies no pressure anywhere. A champ that can go in and do a ton of damage is what is very powerful right now. Look at Talon and Malzahar. Both are in the top of the winrate chart while having one of the highest deathrate(maybe not malzahar). If survivability means that the champ will have no pressure if alive or not, it just means the champ needs to have some kind of pressure when alive. It isn't fair that ya sure Ahri lives, but since her dps is easy to avoid and even hit, it will not impact the game at all.

It is not weird for a fed Ahri not to be able to carry the team to victory. This is because she lacks a lot of damage to be a constant threat. Even if she survives and do decent damage, it is nowhere near other midlaners damage when fed. A 6-0 kata and a 6-0 Ahri has significant power difference. Kata will annihilate every lane while Ahri may burst one target if she lands all her spells. You can argue that Katarina is the definition of anti fun, because she is. Requires no skill shot to land, and her win is determined by how well she played the champ and not how well she outplayed the enemy. The fact that Katarina has one of strongest early game in the midlane while scaling really well goes in line with the idea "always good."

EDIT: Link to all midlaner winrates

Final Spark Lux1 votes

The utility didn't actually give her any power mid, unless you want to argue the E size buff by 50, which is negligible at best and was done many patches ago. To put it into perspective, a melee champion has a an attack range of 125. Lux was always able to instantly detonate Lucent Singularity, it just required you to to be mashing the button. The change just made it so you could double tap E and forget about it. The only thing they changed recently is a very slight CD reduction to Q to put it more in line with other mid ability cooldowns, and her shield gaining shield power if you shield another ally, again useless as a solo mid.

I use Op.gg. I can't speak for Ahri's numbers because I don't play her, and feel no desire to. That being said though, it doesn't matter if someone is diamond or above, there are people who will play champions they have no idea how to play in ranked. Take this week for instance. I can't tell you how many pros / high profile players decided to play Ornn in ranked just for the sake of playing him. The point here is that it doesn't matter if it isn't normals, people are gonna play what they want in whatever mode they want. Within a week, Ahri's winrate has dropped almost 1-1/2 percentage points, yet they haven't touched her. Coincidence? Very unlikely.

Always surviving applying no pressure anywhere? That sounds like a problem on your end, not Ahri's numbers. You don't need to die to apply pressure. You don't even NEED to KILL someone for it to be considered pressure. Kills are a means to obtaining objectives. Champions defend / contest said objectives. If a champion has to go back to base, whether it be through death or recalling in fear of feeding a kill because they're too low to continue, either way, that champion can no longer defend said objective. If you can't hit people with your skillshots, build rylais. It'll help a lot since her W and ult can slow before you ever throw a skillshot.

There is a major difference in understanding a kit well, and being able to utilize it effectively. I personally understand Ahri's kit very well imo. I know how everything works, I know how it all scales, what kind of damage each thing does, how fast her skillshots are etc, but I guarantee I'll feed my ass off if I play her, because I'm not skilled as Ahri.

Comparing any two champions has never made sense to me. No champion is the same. Ahri is nothing like kat, therefore they shouldn't perform anything like eachother either. They both have their own counters, just like they both have matchups where they're excellent. Kat can be antifun to vs if you don't know how to play her, but you'd be surprised how easily she can be countered.

The problem with all of this is you're speaking from your perspective. You may claim a fed Ahri can't carry a game, but that just isn't true. If you can't carry a game as fed Ahri, then either you did something wrong, let the game draw out for too long and let the enemy freely scale, or your team is full of people who decided to feed.

Looking through your match history, things look very inconsistent. When you have good KDA, most of the time you have low CS, and not a great amount of kill participation. What this says to me is when you're doing well, it's usually in your lane, and after you get a kill, you probably push the wave then immediately recall, or recall and skip the wave all together just to run back down to your lane. My advice to you is to do some research, figure out what matchups are good for you, and learn how to take advantage of a lead properly. Work on your roaming. If you're doing as well as your KDA suggests, but you're still losing games, it probably isn't an Ahri issue.

Ahris1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Final Spark Lux,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pKdZIzv2,comment-id=0003000000000000000100000000,timestamp=2017-08-30T01:21:03.702+0000)

The utility didn't actually give her any power mid, unless you want to argue the E size buff by 50, which is negligible at best and was done many patches ago. To put it into perspective, a melee champion has a an attack range of 125. Lux was always able to instantly detonate Lucent Singularity, it just required you to to be mashing the button. The change just made it so you could double tap E and forget about it. The only thing they changed recently is a very slight CD reduction to Q to put it more in line with other mid ability cooldowns, and her shield gaining shield power if you shield another ally, again useless as a solo mid.

I use Op.gg. I can't speak for Ahri's numbers because I don't play her, and feel no desire to. That being said though, it doesn't matter if someone is diamond or above, there are people who will play champions they have no idea how to play in ranked. Take this week for instance. I can't tell you how many pros / high profile players decided to play Ornn in ranked just for the sake of playing him. The point here is that it doesn't matter if it isn't normals, people are gonna play what they want in whatever mode they want. Within a week, Ahri's winrate has dropped almost 1-1/2 percentage points, yet they haven't touched her. Coincidence? Very unlikely.

Always surviving applying no pressure anywhere? That sounds like a problem on your end, not Ahri's numbers. You don't need to die to apply pressure. You don't even NEED to KILL someone for it to be considered pressure. Kills are a means to obtaining objectives. Champions defend / contest said objectives. If a champion has to go back to base, whether it be through death or recalling in fear of feeding a kill because they're too low to continue, either way, that champion can no longer defend said objective. If you can't hit people with your skillshots, build rylais. It'll help a lot since her W and ult can slow before you ever throw a skillshot.

There is a major difference in understanding a kit well, and being able to utilize it effectively. I personally understand Ahri's kit very well imo. I know how everything works, I know how it all scales, what kind of damage each thing does, how fast her skillshots are etc, but I guarantee I'll feed my ass off if I play her, because I'm not skilled as Ahri.

Comparing any two champions has never made sense to me. No champion is the same. Ahri is nothing like kat, therefore they shouldn't perform anything like eachother either. They both have their own counters, just like they both have matchups where they're excellent. Kat can be antifun to vs if you don't know how to play her, but you'd be surprised how easily she can be countered.

The problem with all of this is you're speaking from your perspective. You may claim a fed Ahri can't carry a game, but that just isn't true. If you can't carry a game as fed Ahri, then either you did something wrong, let the game draw out for too long and let the enemy freely scale, or your team is full of people who decided to feed.

Looking through your match history, things look very inconsistent. When you have good KDA, most of the time you have low CS, and not a great amount of kill participation. What this says to me is when you're doing well, it's usually in your lane, and after you get a kill, you probably push the wave then immediately recall, or recall and skip the wave all together just to run back down to your lane. My advice to you is to do some research, figure out what matchups are good for you, and learn how to take advantage of a lead properly. Work on your roaming. If you're doing as well as your KDA suggests, but you're still losing games, it probably isn't an Ahri issue.

Thankyou for looking through my history and finding my flaws. I am using the data obtained from various sources to explain how Ahri is played as a champ. Before the rework, Ahri lacked the survivability during teamfight to stay alive after casting ultimate. Therefore those who were able to dodge and stay alive were consistently doing very well in teamfights. In order to nerf this problematic behavior, Riot had to make Ahri's survivability higher so that she can do as much damage as she did before without losing anything. Now this creates a problem, Ahri is a champ that was not made to be able to last very long in fights, if she had no ultimate it meant she will die very quickly in fights. Now her scalings were based on how she burst and turn kind of useless like Leblanc. By giving Ahri consistency in staying in teamfight, Ahri's burst and her constant damage became a problem. Then Riot had to nerf her numbers so that she will not be too extreme if she lasts long in teamfights. However, her numbers were nerfed pretty hard up to the point where her w and r can do almost no damage at all. This is to weaken Ahri's single target burst as well as her aoe damage. It was a straight nerf to every aspect of her kit. Before, Ahri's damage was considered average. Her damage now is even weaker than the time when Ahri relied on dfg and charm 20% amp to burst carries.

It would be nice if I can play with you one day so that you can tell me my flaws and what to do better. Thanks, I want to actually feel like my champ is impactful, I don't want to feel like I need to pick champs like Talon to feel like I can get the job done. Thanks.

EDIT: Meddler also mentioned Viegar buffs, there you go. Kind of getting really sad. Ahri is left without buffs and only nerfs when she did not see any competitive play... only relevant in soloque and yet she is not good there either. Feels soo baaaaad ;(

"We've been testing some stuff for Veigar, with possible buffs to stats, R ratio and W CD. Might or might not be in 7.18, unclear yet, also wouldn't be changes to all three at once." - Meddler

Final Spark Lux1 votes

Or you could not take criticism personally when someone is trying to help you. Everybody needs help. I've been playing support for years. You think I'm a master? Nope. I'm still learning new stuff. People with an outside perspective can see things maybe you can't. I never said you were a bad Ahri, I'm just making an observation, and from the stats that I can see, I gave you my opinion. No reason to be offended. I'm trying to help. If I didn't care I would have just used a one liner insult and left you with your downvotes.

Ahris1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Final Spark Lux,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pKdZIzv2,comment-id=000300000000000000010000000000000000,timestamp=2017-08-30T01:56:23.593+0000)

Or you could not take criticism personally when someone is trying to help you. Everybody needs help. I've been playing support for years. You think I'm a master? Nope. I'm still learning new stuff. People with an outside perspective can see things maybe you can't. I never said you were a bad Ahri, I'm just making an observation, and from the stats that I can see, I gave you my opinion. No reason to be offended. I'm trying to help. If I didn't care I would have just used a one liner insult and left you with your downvotes.

I didnt take it personally, I may have sounded like attacked but actually was glad you pointed it out. Thank you for not being like others who downvotes without explaining their view... and if their view does not correlate with mine, will simply leave by pressing the little arrow on the top left.

It would be awesome if I can play with you and you to point out my errors. I would love it if you explained to me what I could have done better, something not about the champ I am using, but how I use it. Thanks.

Shuriman Curator1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Final Spark Lux,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pKdZIzv2,comment-id=000300000000,timestamp=2017-08-29T05:49:33.338+0000)

It's Ahris tho. I expect an ahri QQ thread at least once a day lol.

I look forward to these. Honestly I was browsing the forum and thought to myself "man, where is that Ahris QQ thread" lol

Vanic9981 votes

Honestly it's because riot nerfed her the wrong way. Most Ahri mains agree that they should have removed the movement speed boost from her q because she was too safe. Instead riot nerfed her ultimate damage.

Catastrop1 votes

So you mean she's actually balanced now?

Sp33d Zer01 votes

Champion.gg has notoriously inaccurate graphs.

I mean, are you going to tell me that as people play more games on Ahri, their winrate gets worse from maining the champion? https://na.op.gg/champion/statistics Paints a very different picture.

Ahris1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sp33d Zer0,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pKdZIzv2,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2017-08-29T05:35:18.900+0000)

Champion.gg has notoriously inaccurate graphs.

I mean, are you going to tell me that as people play more games on Ahri, their winrate gets worse from maining the champion? https://na.op.gg/champion/statistics Paints a very different picture.

Well yeah it happens lol. Why is that hard to get? Like if you play 200 games with Ahri and you play her wrong you will always be worse than someone who played 10 games of Ahri and did it right.

Sp33d Zer01 votes

This is consistent on EVERY single champion.

If you play 10 games wrong, why would you have a higher winrate than someone playing 200 games right?

Malza1 votes

Yeah, you are a liar.

Because Syndra/Ori/Cass/Leblanc/Taliyah all have lower winrates even though they're top tier apcs.

Calabok1 votes

i agree/ nerf duration of charm

Alex h87211 votes

LMFAO wow, justifying the by calling ryze a top laner. Just because he saw a lot of play top during the "bring a ranged to toplane and bully the melee" meta doesn't mean he's a top laner, hes now a gutted midlaner.

Ahris1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Alex h8721,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pKdZIzv2,comment-id=000a,timestamp=2017-08-30T01:52:11.013+0000)

LMFAO wow, justifying the by calling ryze a top laner. Just because he saw a lot of play top during the "bring a ranged to toplane and bully the melee" meta doesn't mean he's a top laner, hes now a gutted midlaner.

It doesnt matter, Riot nerfed him to where he is because his kit is too oppressive when viable, especially in competitive. Sure he may have been a midlaner, but the reason why he is where he is, is because his kit is broken when viable.

Riot is already planning a rework for the poor blue guy. Unlike Ryze, Riot never speaks about Ahri's current position and their opinion about her state. That is why I remove Ryze from the winrate list as Riot have already decided to rework his kit, similar to leblanc, azir, and some others who I forgot to mention.

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