Lethality needs to seriously be looked at.

Ixaoclown·Mar 20, 2019·6 votes·1,491 views

Listen, I get we needed a way to shred tanks or something, but Lethality is by far the dumbest thing in the game. Flat armor pen vs people who build 0 armor. Why? Why does my enemy Kalista buy 1 seratted dirk, come back to lane, Q-E me and I die outright. At like level 4!?

I don't understand how this is a balanced stat. People who never built armor pen b4 build full lethality, and suddenly do 2x the dmg they originally did.

This stat genuinely makes no sense as to why it was implemented, how it works, or why is it disgustingly broken.

So someone please effing enlighten me on why im getting 2 shot at level 4 with half an item. Because this game is just a shit show now.

17 Comments

FemalesAreLesserMar 20, 20199 votes

why is kalista coming to lane lvl 4 with a dirk, i think you may have messed up a few times leading up to that point.

FemalesAreLesserMar 20, 20195 votes

add-on: i too think lethality isnt doing its job the way it should, you 1 shot anything without armor, and Tanks who have 2 or more armor items take next to no damage, there isnt a middle ground where its easier to kill squishies, and tanks arent AS tanky. you can come to lane with dirk first buy, and lose to anyone who built Tabi, or seekers, because of the armor it gives, you know, the armor you are suppose to be shredding and paying in to too shred

IxaoclownMar 20, 20192 votes

{quoted}

add-on: i too think lethality isnt doing its job the way it should, you 1 shot anything without armor, and Tanks who have 2 or more armor items take next to no damage, there isnt a middle ground where its easier to kill squishies, and tanks arent AS tanky. you can come to lane with dirk first buy, and lose to anyone who built Tabi, or seekers, because of the armor it gives, you know, the armor you are suppose to be shredding and paying in to too shred

She had a dirk because theyre honestly too cheap. And she got some lucky first bloods off of other teammates IIRC. Being able to be level 4 and 2 shot me with literally onyl a dirk in ur inventory is...just madness.

I agree completely with the fact that its either, atrociously broken, or laughably useless depending on the circumstance. Unfortunately the former is usually the case. Assassins like Talon Zed that can easily get behind lines if you aren't super warded always pose a threat to un coordinated play.

ADC's like Twitch who can basically play the old Overwatch Mercy strat of "I have my ult just bait" then fry your team alive. MissFortune With large burst's with her passive and Q. And in this case Kalista Q doing 600 dmg at level 5.

Dark Harvest doesnt help in these circumstances either. Its pretty much god tier on just about anyone right now. Even after the nerfs.

FemalesAreLesserMar 20, 20195 votes

kalista Q doesnt do 600 damage to ANYONE EVER at level 5, it never could and wont, you max her E, thats the damage, adn you dont build lethality on her unless its urf. and dirk isnt cheap at all, money wise its worth what its worth 25AD and a bit of pen. and a small passive which adds a little more burst if used right.

and also see, now your changing it up, of course your gonna die in a few seconds if the enemy got a "few first bloods" whatever that means.

hrooza dota Mar 20, 20194 votes

wait is not lethality meant to be anti low armor item and not the other way around? flat number decreases are much much more effective against someone without armor then someone with tons of armor because armor value decrease the more you have of it.

item 3036 would be the anti tank item because % will be more effective on high armor

NetorareMar 20, 20193 votes

Lethality ruined AD assassins. Lethality ruined AD assassins. Lethality ruined AD assassins and made them braindead.

fire263Mar 20, 20192 votes

Because without lethality we would get flat armor pen, and I really don't think anyone is looking forward to having to deal with a Zed or a Kha'Zix ignoring 20 armor as soon as they get their first item, which is a lot more armor pen than lethality gives, at least for the majority of the game.

IxaoclownMar 20, 20191 votes

How am I changing it up lmao? Whether or not she had any first blood or assist gold is irrelevant. That doesn't change the fact that she did what she did at that level with only 1 item. It's all means to an end.

https://imgur.com/a/RFuDsUI

Level 5, Only item is upon further investigation a duskblade, she did 500 dmg to this brand in 1 Q.

So my initial of only a dirk may be off, but at 5 minutes in at level 5 dealing 500 dmg is not.

(inb4 oh but its urf it doesnt count)

ZephyrDrakeMar 20, 20193 votes

{quoted}

How am I changing it up lmao? Whether or not she had any first blood or assist gold is irrelevant. That doesn't change the fact that she did what she did at that level with only 1 item. It's all means to an end.

https://imgur.com/a/RFuDsUI

Level 5, Only item is upon further investigation a duskblade, she did 500 dmg to this brand in 1 Q.

So my initial of only a dirk may be off, but at 5 minutes in at level 5 dealing 500 dmg is not.

(inb4 oh but its urf it doesnt count)

yes, it doesn't count. Nobody is going to have a duskblade of all items finished that early in a normal game. How about you provide actual evidence of her Q doing that much damage at lvl 5? and I mean actual evidence not URF. Give me a normal SR game where Kalista at lvl 5 will deal that much damage. Give me a normal SR game where ANYONE will have a duskblade completed by lvl 5

IxaoclownMar 20, 20191 votes

{quoted}

yes, it doesn't count. Nobody is going to have a duskblade of all items finished that early in a normal game. How about you provide actual evidence of her Q doing that much damage at lvl 5? and I mean actual evidence not URF. Give me a normal SR game where Kalista at lvl 5 will deal that much damage. Give me a normal SR game where ANYONE will have a duskblade completed by lvl 5

I knew this was coming. So my rebuttal is this. If this were a normal game, nothing would have changed except her level. Going from maybe level 5 to 8-9. Giving her even more DMG on her Q. And more of the lethality. Even at that point do you justify doing that amount of DMG to someone with 1 item and 1 ability that isnt even an ult?

I understand that URF sort of negates some of this DMG spike, but that doesn't negate that this in theory is something easily still done, in only just a few more minutes of a regular game. Especially if said Kalista was doing well.

(you're also an ARAM account. SO like...go off I guess.)

ZephyrDrakeMar 20, 20192 votes

{quoted}

I knew this was coming. So my rebuttal is this. If this were a normal game, nothing would have changed except her level. Going from maybe level 5 to 8-9. Giving her even more DMG on her Q. And more of the lethality. Even at that point do you justify doing that amount of DMG to someone with 1 item and 1 ability that isnt even an ult?

I understand that URF sort of negates some of this DMG spike, but that doesn't negate that this in theory is something easily still done, in only just a few more minutes of a regular game. Especially if said Kalista was doing well.

and my rebuttal is that, that also leads the enemy from getting their items, lvls and be better prepared to a Kalista that somehow thinks that rushing duskblade of all things is a good idea. It barely does anything for her and nobody is building it on her outside of URF. Do you have anything else to say? there is a massive difference between fighting someone with a fully completed item before they even have their ultimates vs someone that actually has access to their ultimate. There is also a massive difference in armor between a lvl 5 champion and a lvl 8-9 champion (unless you are thresh)

IxaoclownMar 20, 20191 votes

{quoted}

and my rebuttal is that, that also leads the enemy from getting their items, lvls and be better prepared to a Kalista that somehow thinks that rushing duskblade of all things is a good idea. It barely does anything for her and nobody is building it on her outside of URF. Do you have anything else to say? there is a massive difference between fighting someone with a fully completed item before they even have their ultimates vs someone that actually has access to their ultimate. There is also a massive difference in armor between a lvl 5 champion and a lvl 8-9 champion (unless you are thresh)

A massive difference? You mean the passive armor gain that the enemies lethality is scaling with to penetrate? Her having her ult is pointless, as it does nothing in this situation. 'Duskblade isnt good on her" it may not be the best first item, but considering it would scale harder at level 9 than 5 in the first place she would be hitting even harder.

Whats to stop a Kalista from going full cheese and buying all lethality and having her team support the hell out of her while she throws spears to chunk HP?

I'm not really sure what your point is here other than "if its not on Mobafire then it isnt good."

ZephyrDrakeMar 20, 20192 votes

{quoted}

A massive difference? You mean the passive armor gain that the enemies lethality is scaling with to penetrate? Her having her ult is pointless, as it does nothing in this situation. 'Duskblade isnt good on her" it may not be the best first item, but considering it would scale harder at level 9 than 5 in the first place she would be hitting even harder.

Whats to stop a Kalista from going full cheese and buying all lethality and having her team support the hell out of her while she throws spears to chunk HP?

I'm not really sure what your point is here other than "if its not on Mobafire then it isnt good."

please provide me a single site that says that Kalista builds Duskblade at all, it's a terrible item since it does nothing for her and she has no way of getting the damage to reset. I'm not using Mobafire, you can build Kalista however you want. It's still a terrible build and a terrible item on her in every sense of the word. What is there to support? she does damage once and the duskblade damage passive is gone until she completely disengages or finds a brush where she can hide which means she won't be chucking spears for a little bit. Also according to the wiki from lvl 5 to lvl 9 Duskblade would get a grand total of... 1.87 lethality which means, 2. What champion will gain less than 2 armor in 4 lvls? you already even if we just compare duskblade alone with their base armor alone. The damage that duskblade will do is already less when you factor the extra HP, then you factor the fact that the enemy will have it's ultimate ready and more points into their abilities. Also Kalista doesn't max Q first, unless it another one of your "cheese strats". Seems to me you have this dumb vendetta over lethality just because a Kalista dealt a bunch of damage to you in an URF match with a terrible build that could work only because it was URF. Pretty sure that if that Zilean would have landed his double bombs you would have been dead regardless of what that Kalista built

IxaoclownMar 20, 20191 votes

{quoted}

please provide me a single site that says that Kalista builds Duskblade at all, it's a terrible item since it does nothing for her and she has no way of getting the damage to reset. I'm not using Mobafire, you can build Kalista however you want. It's still a terrible build and a terrible item on her in every sense of the word. What is there to support? she does damage once and the duskblade damage passive is gone until she completely disengages or finds a brush where she can hide which means she won't be chucking spears for a little bit. Also according to the wiki from lvl 5 to lvl 9 Duskblade would get a grand total of... 1.87 lethality which means, 2. What champion will gain less than 2 armor in 4 lvls? you already even if we just compare duskblade alone with their base armor alone. The damage that duskblade will do is already less then you factor the extra HP, then you factor the fact that the enemy will have it's ultimate ready and more points into their abilities. Also Kalista doesn't max Q first, unless it another one of your "cheese strats". Seems to me you have this dumb vendetta over lethality just because a Kalista dealt a bunch of damage to you in an URF match with a terrible build that could work only because it was URF. Pretty sure that if that Zilean would have landed his double bombs you would have been dead regardless of what that Kalista built

How do i have a dumb vendetta against it when someone above literally agreed with me to a fault. I'm not the only person who doesnt like lethality. The old armor pen would have never had this happen. And also your lethality calculation is off.

That being said im not going to sit here and argue with someone who's entire match history is ARAM loss streaks. I maybe playing urf but damn at least im still on the rift.

Lethality needs fixed. End of discussion. Whether we want to sit here at 4am and argue about Kalista being annoying or not. Its not healthy for the game. It makes no sense. And needs looked at. Thanks for coming to my TED talk.

ZephyrDrakeMar 20, 20191 votes

{quoted}

How do i have a dumb vendetta against it when someone above literally agreed with me to a fault. I'm not the only person who doesnt like lethality. The old armor pen would have never had this happen. And also your lethality calculation is off.

That being said im not going to sit here and argue with someone who's entire match history is ARAM loss streaks. I maybe playing urf but damn at least im still on the rift.

Lethality needs fixed. End of discussion. Whether we want to sit here at 4am and argue about Kalista being annoying or not. Its not healthy for the game. It makes no sense. And needs looked at. Thanks for coming to my TED talk.

no it's not off, literally what the wiki says is that at lvl 5 duskblade gives 14.93 lethality and ta lvl 9 it gives 16.8. Thanks for admitting to having a dumb vendetta and having no actual arguments. When you want to have an actual discussion instead of trying to attack people for what mode they play when you cannot make any sort of decent argument then you lost my friend. Sorry to say this but you have no grounds whatsoever to base anything. Show me an actual match, don't show me urf, don't tell me your made up stories, don't come and tell me "it's not hard for X" do it yourself and show me. Otherwise you are nothing more but whiner #7768686726 that cannot backup their claims in the slightest

IxaoclownMar 20, 20191 votes

{quoted}

no it's not off, literally what the wiki says is that at lvl 5 duskblade gives 14.93 lethality and ta lvl 9 it gives 16.8. Thanks for admitting to having a dumb vendetta and having no actual arguments. When you want to have an actual discussion instead of trying to attack people for what mode they play when you cannot make any sort of decent argument then you lost my friend. Sorry to say this but you have no grounds whatsoever to base anything. Show me an actual match, don't show me urf, don't tell me your made up stories, don't come and tell me "it's not hard for X" do it yourself and show me. Otherwise you are nothing more but whiner #7768686726 that cannot backup their claims in the slightest

You can comment and call me a whiner all you want. I don't have to prove myself to a random person on the internet who lurks the forums looking for people to argue with at 4am. My claim was backed up. I showed proof of what I said. Whether it was URF or not. So uh...? Yikes on that one my dude. And I also never agreed to having a vendetta. Me saying I don't like lethality =/= vendetta. My argument still stands as it is.

You can comment on the mode i'm playing, so why can't I comment on yours? That's pretty hypocritical. The only person not having an actual discussion here is you, attempting to swing your e-peen on a forum post acting like a tough guy because you can tell me Kalista doesnt build lethality or max Q first. O.o

I don't need your approval to say and/or "complain" about what I want. lol

So have fun doing you buddy. Try to get some rest. A glass of water maybe. You've earned it pal, good going. It's time to go actually do something productive and stop arguing with keyboard warriors. x3

ZephyrDrakeMar 20, 20191 votes

{quoted}

You can comment and call me a whiner all you want. I don't have to prove myself to a random person on the internet who lurks the forums looking for people to argue with at 4am. My claim was backed up. I showed proof of what I said. Whether it was URF or not. So uh...? Yikes on that one my dude. And I also never agreed to having a vendetta. Me saying I don't like lethality =/= vendetta. My argument still stands as it is.

You can comment on the mode i'm playing, so why can't I comment on yours? That's pretty hypocritical. The only person not having an actual discussion here is you, attempting to swing your e-peen on a forum post acting like a tough guy because you can tell me Kalista doesnt build lethality or max Q first. O.o

I don't need your approval to say and/or "complain" about what I want. lol

So have fun doing you buddy. Try to get some rest. A glass of water maybe. You've earned it pal, good going. It's time to go actually do something productive and stop arguing with keyboard warriors. x3

the great backup of a lvl 5 champion with a fully completed item... yeah no. That doesn't count in any part of the real world buddy.