Bruisers are losing items (TBF spear is toxic & raptor was only built on darius), and are not gaining any. Atma's Reckoning???? ad carries are having a mini-rework (which is something at least), tanks have no new items, despite desperately need a late-game scaling item. mages have no new items.
????
I really hope there is more. I hope assassins and supports aren't the only ones that get a fresh experience.
The thigh guy29 votesRiot is giving assassin more because they want to continue forcing this burst/snowball meta down our throats. And what class happens to excel in both of those things?
Levi Shãdow1 votesassassins have been the worst class for 3 season and they only have 5 items to build, while mages adc tanks have 10+ items ;)
The thigh guy2 votes[{quoted}](name=Shãdow Blãde,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=oQefoXoH,comment-id=00010001,timestamp=2019-11-07T14:33:48.586+0000)
assassins have been the worst class for 3 season and they only have 5 items to build, while mages adc tanks have 10+ items ;)
Good joke. Assassins have been in the meta for 2 full seasons now. And it’s looking like it’s gonna be 3.
toby mcteague1 votesFunny because AD assassins are hardly viable in competitive.
The thigh guy1 votesFunny because AD assassins are hardly viable in competitive.
Competitive play is irrelevant. It’s only becomes relevant when
If even one person in your game does not meet all of these requirements, pro play is not a relevant argument. And I’d be willing to bet that this is not the case is 99.99999% of games.
Dadnekton15 votesMages don't need any new items for fuck sake. Mages have the most variety in the game by far, and the most op items BY FAR. The mage items available are so fucking cheap, and have more utility than any other class's items in the entire game, with better stats for fuck sake. Like it is INSANE that people don't see this.
TyRamos12 votesMages don't need any new items for fuck sake. Mages have the most variety in the game by far, and the most op items BY FAR. The mage items available are so fucking cheap, and have more utility than any other class's items in the entire game, with better stats for fuck sake. Like it is INSANE that people don't see this.
You've been watching Hash too much, mages and tanks are the two least popular classes right now, have you been watching worlds? the number of non mages mid is insane.
ArtumisPrime12 votesLet's put this theory to the test.
The most picked mid laners at worlds are, in order:
24 games
12 games
11 games
10 games
10 games
8 games
7 games
This means that of 148 mid lane champion picks, 75 of them, or 50.68%, are mages, and that's from only the top 6.
In total, in the mid lane, 99 mages have been picked (excluding things like TF who generally built full AD), or 66.89%
Jungle has Gragas building full AP, and Elise, as 2 of the 3 most picked champions in the role. 43.24% mages via 64 picks.
Top lane has seen 40 mages, or 27.02%
Support and ADC have the lowest mage representation, and even they both are above 0, at around 9% each.
Source: https://gol.gg/tournament/tournament-stats/World%20Championship%202019/
Ahri Baka7 votesLet's put this theory to the test.
The most picked mid laners at worlds are, in order:
This means that of 148 mid lane champion picks, 75 of them, or 50.68%, are mages, and that's from only the top 6.
In total, in the mid lane, 99 mages have been picked (excluding things like TF who generally built full AD), or 66.89%
Jungle has Gragas building full AP, and Elise, as 2 of the 3 most picked champions in the role. 43.24% mages via 64 picks.
Top lane has seen 40 mages, or 27.02%
Support and ADC have the lowest mage representation, and even they both are above 0, at around 9% each.
Source: https://gol.gg/tournament/tournament-stats/World%20Championship%202019/
Who? Your stats are false. Don't tell me you counted LB as a mage?
And you ignored his point , he didn't only talk about Worlds. He talked in SR mostly and he is right. Mages and Tanks are the two least popular roles right now.
The most popular mage right now is Morgana , a support that isn't very strong but exists for this bot lane meta with 11% pick rate. Ahri ( who is hybrid and exists to fit such a snowbally meta ) who only has 9% pick rate. Do you know what that means? Go check other classes and their pick rates.
Support: Leona , Naut and Blitz , 16 to 17% pick rate for each champion. Thresh : 28% PR.
Adc Ashe: 25% PR Kai'sa : 43% PR Ezreal : 21.5% PR Lucian : 20% PR
Jungle Lee Sin : 35% PR Elise : 14%+ PR Ekko : 13%
Mid Yasuo : 11% PR with a huge ban rate. Zed 7.8% PR with a huge ban rate.
Top : Kayle : 15% PR
PS : Vlad is not a mage, Vlad is not a mage , Vlad is not a mage
EDIT : Never mind , this guy believes LB is a mage , and Akali too , not only that , but he also believes Katarina is a mage.
ArtumisPrime10 votesLB is a burst mage, so yes. I considered her a mage. She builds Gunblade into mage items.
Vlad is also definitely a mage. He builds mage items. Protobelt, Deathcap, Spellbinder, etc.
He specifically said, and I quote
have you been watching worlds? the number of non mages mid is insane.
Ahri Baka11 votesLB is a burst mage, so yes. I considered her a mage. She builds Gunblade into mage items.
Vlad is also definitely a mage. He builds mage items. Protobelt, Deathcap, Spellbinder, etc.
He specifically said, and I quote
LB is an assassin and should not be counted as a mage . she has dash ( with it's second active ) with her basic abilities and her Ult which is a second W that has a really low CD compared to other champions.
Vlad is a mage by class , but he doesn't have the same treatment as a mage , he doesn't use mana , sure you can treat him as a mage , but he is not the kind of mages we are talking about when we mention mages , he doesn't even have the same boring build path , this champion is broken by nature. You did quote with false info counting LB as a mage , and he didn't only specify pro play.
ArtumisPrime9 votesLB is a burst. mage. Otherwise known as an AP assassin.
Vlad is absolutely a mage. Look at his current item build. If he were building AP/bruiser he'd still be a mage. The only way I would consider him not a mage is if he were going full tank.
Let me put it to you another way.
If we take Ezreal, and build him AD, then he's an ADC. If we take him mid lane and build AP on him, then he's a mage. If they build mostly mage items (EDIT as per post below: AND if they have a majority of magic damage in their kit), then they're a mage. I really don't see what's so difficult about this.
Ahri Baka10 votesLB is a burst. mage. Otherwise known as an AP assassin.
Vlad is absolutely a mage. Look at his current item build. If he were building AP/bruiser he'd still be a mage. The only way I would consider him not a mage is if he were going full tank.
Let me put it to you another way.
If we take Ezreal, and build him AD, then he's an ADC. If we take him mid lane and build AP on him, then he's a mage. If they build mostly mage items, then they're a mage. I really don't see what's so difficult about this.
No , according to that logic everything that builds AP is a mage? No , going by that Logic is also means Ekko , Elise and Diana are mages too?
ArtumisPrime8 votesNo. If you build AP and do a significant portion of MAGIC damage then you are a MAGE. Get it? Mage -> magic damage. And so you don't say "Corki does magic damage" that's why I'm saying both AP itemization, and magic damage together = mage.
Ekko is a burst mage, control mage, or AP bruiser Diana is a burst mage or an AP bruiser Elise is usually a burst mage, but she's kind of a weird case Malphite building AP is a burst mage Maokai building AP is a burst or control mage.
See how this works?
EDIT: The only case of those where I'm really on the fence is Kayle. She's kind of a weird one.
EDIT 2: Magic damage as a majority of the kit, I should clarify. So like, Garen's ult does not classify him as a mage even if he builds AP. Also the magic damage from Nashor's Tooth and Lich Bane doesn't turn someone into a mage.
Ahri Baka8 votesNo. If you build AP and do a significant portion of MAGIC damage then you are a MAGE. Get it? Mage -> magic damage. And so you don't say "Corki does magic damage" that's why I'm saying both AP itemization, and magic damage together = mage.
Ekko is a burst mage, control mage, or AP bruiser Diana is a burst mage or an AP bruiser Elise is usually a burst mage, but she's kind of a weird case Malphite building AP is a burst mage Maokai building AP is a burst or control mage.
See how this works?
EDIT: The only case of those where I'm really on the fence is Kayle. She's kind of a weird one.
EDIT 2: Magic damage as a majority of the kit, I should clarify. So like, Garen's ult does not classify him as a mage even if he builds AP. Also the magic damage from Nashor's Tooth and Lich Bane doesn't turn someone into a mage.
Yea , Katarina is also a mage , Talon too xD LOOOOL ,you made my day.
ArtumisPrime4 votesWhere are you getting Talon out of this? He does not build AP and does no magic damage.
Katarina is though. Burst mage.
Ahri Baka11 votesWhere are you getting Talon out of this? He does not build AP and does no magic damage.
Katarina is though. Burst mage.
Yes , because I expected you to say Katarina is , hashinshin followers , Hashinshin banned me from his chat for saying " Talon is not a mage " , he also banned a guy who said " Katarina is not a mage " .
ArtumisPrime7 votesI really don't give two shits what Hashinshin thinks.
Just using simple logic here.
Building AP + mostly magic damage in kit = mage.
Like, even Singed. AP bruiser, also could be called a tanky mage.
VampiricLlama7 votesI really don't give two shits what Hashinshin thinks.
Just using simple logic here.
Building AP + mostly magic damage in kit = mage.
Like, even Singed. AP bruiser, also could be called a tanky mage.
The difference between a burst mage and an AP assassin is that a burst mage can perform their burst combo from a relatively safe range, while an AP assassin has to put themselves into harms way, at least briefly.
Burst mage examples:
AP assassin examples:
Slythrin Umbreon6 votesLB is a burst. mage. Otherwise known as an AP assassin.
Syndra is not an AP assassin. There's a difference between a burst mage and an assassin. Burst mages are immobile, have weaker target access, better CC and Teamfighting capabilities then an assassin, making for a completely different playstyle and a completely different lineup of strengths and weakness. You're trying to play legalese when you don't know the language.
WalkingInACircle13 votesCalling LB a mage is so desparate.
LightswornLance7 votes"Vlad and Leblanc arent mages" [zombie-brand-mindblown]
ImTheJuggernauty7 votes"Vlad and Leblanc arent mages" [zombie-brand-mindblown]
Lb is a burst assassin
ArtumisPrime2 votesA burst MAGE
All assassins burst.
AP assassins are burst mages.
Caretaker Jack2 votesA burst MAGE
All assassins burst.
AP assassins are burst mages.
All assassins are designed to burst, including AP assassins, but this doesn't make them burst mages. They are very different because they don't have as much control or safety in team fights compared to their burstier counterparts. At this time you must be thinking: "Ekko has his ult? Ahri has 3 dashes? Etc... You cant be serious, no way this is legit!" but lets explore
AP assassins:
Now, lets look at actual burst mages:
Burst mages are team fighting Gods compared to their assassin counterparts as they become more valuable as the game goes on... It's not that AP assassins are getting weaker nor is it that they're getting out scaled -- they are just losing agency. Don't get me wrong, Assassins do good damage and might even have great AoE, but they have to land a full combo cycle AND survive while burst mages simply need to click a button.
If the assassin doesn't close the game quickly, then you have to get, at least, a kill and a half every fight or you will likely lose the game. Compare that to a 3 man tibbers ult... It doesn't even matter if the enemy dies, your fight is now 5v4 (or less) because they are going back to their base which means they have to give you that baron or turret... Something like that is a lot more valuable (late game) than any assassin. Even Ekko will find himself flipping over walls and trying to land 200IQ stuns when Brand, Syndra, or Zyra can do the same job with just the click of a button. ** The catch is assassins are scarier early and this meta is early focused.**
Ahris1 votes[{quoted}](name=Caretaker Jack,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=oQefoXoH,comment-id=00020002000000000001000100000001,timestamp=2019-11-06T18:01:40.194+0000)
All assassins are designed to burst, including AP assassins, but this doesn't make them burst mages. They are very different because they don't have as much control or safety in team fights compared to their burstier counterparts. At this time you must be thinking: "Ekko has his ult? Ahri has 3 dashes? Etc... You cant be serious, no way this is legit!" but lets explore
AP assassins:
Now, lets look at actual burst mages:
Burst mages are team fighting Gods compared to their assassin counterparts as they become more valuable as the game goes on... It's not that AP assassins are getting weaker nor is it that they're getting out scaled -- they are just losing agency. Don't get me wrong, Assassins do good damage and might even have great AoE, but they have to land a full combo cycle AND survive while burst mages simply need to click a button.
If the assassin doesn't close the game quickly, then you have to get, at least, a kill and a half every fight or you will likely lose the game. Compare that to a 3 man tibbers ult... It doesn't even matter if the enemy dies, your fight is now 5v4 (or less) because they are going back to their base which means they have to give you that baron or turret... Something like that is a lot more valuable (late game) than any assassin. Even Ekko will find himself flipping over walls and trying to land 200IQ stuns when Brand, Syndra, or Zyra can do the same job with just the click of a button. ** The catch is assassins are scarier early and this meta is early focused.**
ahri isnt ap assassin. She could not even burst an adc with heal. How is that an assassin
3TWarrior1 votesyou'd be surprised depending upon what her ult decides to target with its new effects
if she lands a full combo with opponents far enough away not to be targeted by any of her auto-targeting abiliites (she now has 2 sets...)
she gets, 180 + 40% AP and then 1.2 ( ult: 1080 + 315% AP , Q: 280 + 70% AP , W : 224 + 48% AP ) for a grand total of 2080 + 554% AP which scales linearly
at 100 AP, that's 2500 damage, at 200, it's 3000, 300 and 3500
this also comes before effects such as 
(which adds 15% more magic damage)
all of which she can apply nearly instantaneously while you are helpless during her charm
if you add those, you get roughly 4174 damage at the 300 mark before defenses are applied
all of this before runes reforged is factored in...
and you literally have the situation I described above
so, if you have 100 magic resist, you get a whopping 2087 or so damage taken, which is very unlikely for a marksman in today's meta
Ahris1 votesyou'd be surprised depending upon what her ult decides to target with its new effects
if she lands a full combo with opponents far enough away not to be targeted by any of her auto-targeting abiliites (she now has 2 sets...)
she gets, 180 + 40% AP and then 1.2 ( ult: 1080 + 315% AP , Q: 280 + 70% AP , W : 224 + 48% AP ) for a grand total of 2080 + 554% AP which scales linearly
at 100 AP, that's 2500 damage, at 200, it's 3000, 300 and 3500
this also comes before effects such as
all of which she can apply nearly instantaneously while you are helpless during her charm
if you add those, you get roughly 4174 damage at the 300 mark before defenses are applied
all of this before runes reforged is factored in...
so, if you have 100 magic resist, you get a whopping 2087 or so damage taken, which is very unlikely for a marksman in today's meta
How does Ahri's R have 1080 damage with 315% ap ratio. Dude, you miscalculated. Her R does in TOTAL 360 damage, so 120 damage PER DASH. Which is diagustingly bad for a mage ulti damage. Even malphite has a stronger ulti.
GilxeN1 votesHow does Ahri's R have 1080 damage with 315% ap ratio. Dude, you miscalculated. Her R does in TOTAL 360 damage, so 120 damage PER DASH. Which is diagustingly bad for a mage ulti damage. Even malphite has a stronger ulti.
[zombie-brand-facepalm]
You can't even understand difference between mage and assassin I DOUBT you have right to shit-post.
Mostly Ahris damage comes from not from ulti, but actually E,Q,W combo, R is damage filler together with the combo, LMAO you dont even know your own champion, sad...
Ahris1 votes[zombie-brand-facepalm]
You can't even understand difference between mage and assassin I DOUBT you have right to shit-post.
Mostly Ahris damage comes from not from ulti, but actually E,Q,W combo, R is damage filler together with the combo, LMAO you dont even know your own champion, sad...
I am saying her EWQ combo is trash weak. It most of time cant kill a squishy.
I also corrected his math since Ahri seemed way too nice with his calculation lol.
I rather Ahri have an ulti that does damage. Ahri's EWQ is not even strong when compared to other Mages. EwQ.
Ahris1 votes[zombie-brand-facepalm]
You can't even understand difference between mage and assassin I DOUBT you have right to shit-post.
Mostly Ahris damage comes from not from ulti, but actually E,Q,W combo, R is damage filler together with the combo, LMAO you dont even know your own champion, sad...
[zombie-brand-mindblown]
Im saying Ahri's EWQ is too weak for having an ulti that doesnt do damage.
Daddy Ants1 votes[zombie-brand-mindblown]
Im saying Ahri's EWQ is too weak for having an ulti that doesnt do damage.
52.22% win rate, almost 10% pick rate in Platinum+
WOW SUCH A WEAK CHAMPION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
/sarcasm
Meanwhile champions like Azir are sitting at 40-41%.
Daddy Ants1 votesThe point stands, Ahri's EWQ combo is too weak. A champ can have a high winrate and have garbage kit.
Ahri's fine numbers wise.
She could use a mini rework on that W sure but thats about it.
3TWarrior1 votessorry about that, though her damage is still very good if not lethal to a squishy target without magic resist
that's the R's effective damage against multiple targets but effectively divided by 3
Ahris1 votessorry about that, though her damage is still very good if not lethal to a squishy target without magic resist
that's the R's effective damage against multiple targets but effectively divided by 3
Uh, then how do you calculate AOE spells then? Syndra's Q can hit 5 people. So how is that? Malphites ulti? Orianna's utlti?
Her damage is nothing if not enough to kill 100-0.
Daddy Ants1 votessorry about that, though her damage is still very good if not lethal to a squishy target without magic resist
that's the R's effective damage against multiple targets but effectively divided by 3
Really not worth taking any notice to anything he says.
He thinks Ahri should be a 54-55% win rate champion ....
Ahri Mains are the most delusional mains community, closely followed by Shaco Mains.
Caretaker Jack1 votesahri isnt ap assassin. She could not even burst an adc with heal. How is that an assassin
charm into a full combo onto a squishy is def a kill... If you can't burst anyone it's because you fell behind, didn't land the full combo, or focused a tank.
Ahris1 votes[{quoted}](name=Caretaker Jack,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=oQefoXoH,comment-id=0002000200000000000100010000000100010001,timestamp=2019-11-06T23:27:13.793+0000)
charm into a full combo onto a squishy is def a kill... If you can't burst anyone it's because you fell behind, didn't land the full combo, or focused a tank.
Ive seen ahri who couldnt kill lvl 9 pyke and lvl 9 rakan as lvl 12.
ImTheJuggernauty13 votesLet's put this theory to the test.
The most picked mid laners at worlds are, in order:
This means that of 148 mid lane champion picks, 75 of them, or 50.68%, are mages, and that's from only the top 6.
In total, in the mid lane, 99 mages have been picked (excluding things like TF who generally built full AD), or 66.89%
Jungle has Gragas building full AP, and Elise, as 2 of the 3 most picked champions in the role. 43.24% mages via 64 picks.
Top lane has seen 40 mages, or 27.02%
Support and ADC have the lowest mage representation, and even they both are above 0, at around 9% each.
Source: https://gol.gg/tournament/tournament-stats/World%20Championship%202019/
Look, I have no opinion on whether mages are OP, overplayed, or if their items are too strong and diverse, but I will say this. You sir, are an idiot. Ok, so you didn't count Qiyana as a mage, great, that part is accurate. But LB a mage? heck no, she's a burst ASSASSIN and ALWAYS HAS BEEN. GTFO.
And don't even get me started about akali and kayle. Wow. Your judgment/discernment is horrible or intentionally manipulated to artificially help your argument. Akali is and ASSASSIN and kayle is the AP version of and ADC. Damn, at least get your facts straight. Just because a champ builds mages items or has predominantly magic damage DOESN'T MAKE THEM A MAGE. That's like calling darius a tank just because he commonly builds tankier items such as spirit visage, thornmail, randuins, etc.
So, taking those other three champs out of your misconstrued picture, that leaves orianna, syndra, and ryze for a total of 43 midlane mages in the top seven champs played mid. Wow, your argument debunked right there. What's more, ryze is clearly an outlier, and EVERY CLASS HAS OUTLIERS, even the weak classes. Ryze is and always has been an outlier due to riot not being able to get him worked out right. Sure, he's a mage, but unlike syndra and orianna, he's specifically a battle mage, and is super strong due to his dueling AND teamfight potential, early gave viability AND late game scaling. For all intents and purposes, he is a failure of a champ and is not indicative of the mage class whatsoever.
That would be like calling tanks busted because of AP malph.
Just please, people like you need to get more informed before you make these ridiculous kinds of posts.
LightswornLance3 votesImagine calling someone an idiot while unironically saying the phrase "burst assassin"
3TWarrior2 votes 
there are currently several assassins that do not do enough damage outright to just kill their target, so they're not technically wrong about classifying "burst assassins", though quinn probably fits my definition of a specialist because she does not meet the qualifcations of other classes
Her burst damage is fairly low but she is a marksman/assassin hybrid. She deals no DPS and relies entirely on her passive and abilities while being highly mobile and getting into and out of fights
all in all though, Leblanc is a specialist...too assassin like for a mage and fairly short range but not enough damage for an assassin
toby mcteague2 votes@Imthestupidnauty Hey, you’re actually stupid. Only AD Assasins are getting major changes to their items. Is Levlanc AD? Who cares if shes an assassin. She uses mage items. Lethality has nothing to do with her kit.
ImTheJuggernauty1 votes@Imthestupidnauty Hey, you’re actually stupid. Only AD Assasins are getting major changes to their items. Is Levlanc AD? Who cares if shes an assassin. She uses mage items. Lethality has nothing to do with her kit.
Lmao, oooooh good one XD XD. No, you literally no nothing about this game. If your POINT is that AP ITEMS are too strong, then fine, go with it. But don't use a bunch of fucken assassins/bruisers, etc, as examples of why MAGES are too strong at worlds or in general. You hurt your own argument and make yourself look like a fucken moron. So fucken stupid. You're the type of person who doesn't know why all squares are rectangles, but why not all rectangles are squares. Get out of here with your 3rd education level and even more primitive debate intelligence.
boricCentaur113 votesYeah it kinda sucks. WHY THE FUCK ARE WE CHANGING CRIT AGAIN!!!!!! WHYYYYY? I guess support items too but that is kinda needed.
I really wanted this preseason to be huge and fix the problem with items but instead riot is just removing unpopular ones while leaving toxic items like 
and 
in the game.
Assassin items make sense since they really needed more options since duskblade into ghost or ghost into duskblade. Similar thing to support.
I'm starting to think this preseason isn't that big.
League needs more items not less.
Smyrage2 votesYeah it kinda sucks. WHY THE FUCK ARE WE CHANGING CRIT AGAIN!!!!!! WHYYYYY? I guess support items too but that is kinda needed.
I really wanted this preseason to be huge and fix the problem with items but instead riot is just removing unpopular ones while leaving toxic items like
Assassin items make sense since they really needed more options since duskblade into ghost or ghost into duskblade. Similar thing to support.
I'm starting to think this preseason isn't that big.
League needs more items not less.
How did they change crit? The only thing I know of is that they finally made Stormrazor into a crit item, so it no longer feels wasted gold.
stone the blacks2 votesYeah it kinda sucks. WHY THE FUCK ARE WE CHANGING CRIT AGAIN!!!!!! WHYYYYY? I guess support items too but that is kinda needed.
I really wanted this preseason to be huge and fix the problem with items but instead riot is just removing unpopular ones while leaving toxic items like
Assassin items make sense since they really needed more options since duskblade into ghost or ghost into duskblade. Similar thing to support.
I'm starting to think this preseason isn't that big.
League needs more items not less.
is currently loosing the ward detection but gain grievous wounds with some number changes
boricCentaur11 votesWell I was talking about the other passive. Since it just leads to toxic game play with champions like shaco or wukong. The damage passive should be changed.
stone the blacks2 votesWell I was talking about the other passive. Since it just leads to toxic game play with champions like shaco or wukong. The damage passive should be changed.
that would be ideal but we cant be having you know counter play other than have a specific champion with hella shields
