Ornn was pretty much over-nerfed into non-existence

Colton147·Jan 1, 2018·2 votes·1,061 views

As the title says...

is currently sitting at a 46%-48% winrate: http://na.op.gg/champion/ornn/statistics/top http://champion.gg/champion/Ornn/Top?league= http://www.lolking.net/champions/ornn#/overview

A small love tap may be needed to make great again...

Giving a small love tap shouldn't hurt.

W: Bellows Breath

Damage decreased from 10/12/14/16/18% of the target's maximum health in magic damage to 8/10%/12%/14%/16% of the target's maximum health in true damage

Percentage damage is down, but will now deal true damage instead of magic damage.

23 Comments

Eternal TormentJan 1, 20183 votes

No. just no.

Ornn since his release received 4 buffs because of how underwhelming he was, said buffs were Lower W cd, W damage changed from current health to max health, Ult first active no longer has a cast time, Ult recast no longer delays but instantly knocks back the bull, and 4 were a tad too much so when runes reforged came out riot drew back a notch and nerfed his W so he is in a decent spot. and ornn is actually in a very decent spot right now.

Ornn is very fine where he currently stands.

SasogwaJan 1, 20182 votes

https://imgflip.com/s/meme/How-About-No-Bear.jpg

I mean, Ornn still has powerful laning and his ult is huge in teamfights. Also, true damage would be absolutely insane against other tanks and remove all possible counteritemization except MORE DAMAGE. We don't want MORE DAMAGE in league, quite the opposite

rtbf90661456Jan 1, 20181 votes

Ornn needed heavy nerfs, because his bellow's breath chunked people to half hp without any damage items. even now, he chunks people for 20% of their max hp at level 9 with just one w and auto

why do you think it's a good idea to buff ornn? he erases tanks faster than ADCs

Colton147Jan 1, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Twilight Assault,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=oJYEr0qx,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-01-01T05:06:56.887+0000)

Ornn needed heavy nerfs, because his bellow's breath chunked people to half hp without any damage items. even now, he chunks people for 20% of their max hp at level 9 with just one w and auto

why do you think it's a good idea to buff ornn? he erases tanks faster than ADCs

Mostly due to his low win rate.

I feel like buffing his W may be a good start... But at the same time, could be a bad idea since he has a tendency of hurting a lot.

rtbf90661456Jan 1, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Mostly due to his low win rate.

I feel like buffing his W may be a good start... But at the same time, could be a bad idea.

winrates are bullshit stats >.> Shen has consistently had sub 50% winrate almost all of season 7, yet i found great success with one tricking shen.

it's when winrates dip below a significant %, or dip above a significant % that this becomes problematic like fucking pantheon that has 54% winrate since preseason 7

NemeBroJan 1, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Twilight Assault,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=oJYEr0qx,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2018-01-01T05:15:03.083+0000)

winrates are bullshit stats >.> Shen has consistently had sub 50% winrate almost all of season 7, yet i found great success with one tricking shen.

it's when winrates dip below a significant %, or dip above a significant % that this becomes problematic like fucking pantheon that has 54% winrate since preseason 7

So do you have another account? Because a 43% win rate in silver 3 isn't "great success" in my mind.

Anyway, Ornn needed big boy nerfs and got them. He's still seeing play in challenger (unfortunately), and will always be oppressive to lane against while he can build items in lane.

rtbf90661456Jan 1, 20181 votes

well, I have many accounts, if you haven't noticed i don't even have any games in season 7

winrates are bullshit stats imo. if you manage to find a super unique and powerful build on something like idunno, soraka mid, but soraka mid winrate is sub 35%, that doesn't mean soraka mid is bad, people just aren't up to date

NemeBroJan 1, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Twilight Assault,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=oJYEr0qx,comment-id=00000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-01-01T05:36:19.307+0000)

well, I have many accounts, if you haven't noticed i don't even have any games in season 7

winrates are bullshit stats imo. if you manage to find a super unique and powerful build on something like idunno, soraka mid, but soraka mid winrate is sub 35%, that doesn't mean soraka mid is bad, people just aren't up to date

Sure, and occasionally those builds then become mainstream as the meta build. I myself knew that Tryndamere was stronger last season than a lot of people said because I was building Essence Reaver on him before most were.

But it is also dangerous to think that one's own personal experiences in-game are evidence in a balance discussion. For example, I usually stomp ass with Dr. Mundo top lane. Is Mundo good? No. Not really no. But he can exploit the foolish decisions of less-skilled players.

So unless you play in high diamond or higher, I don't think much of your success with Shen, even during his weak periods.

rtbf90661456Jan 1, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Sure, and occasionally those builds then become mainstream as the meta build. I myself knew that Tryndamere was stronger last season than a lot of people said because I was building Essence Reaver on him before most were.

But it is also dangerous to think that one's own personal experiences in-game are evidence in a balance discussion. For example, I usually stomp ass with Dr. Mundo top lane. Is Mundo good? No. Not really no. But he can exploit the foolish decisions of less-skilled players.

So unless you play in high diamond or higher, I don't think much of your success with Shen, even during his weak periods.

You say that, but diamond only accounts for about top 0.3% of the entire league community, do you really think it's wise to balance champions based on stats from diamond or higher elo? if that was the case almost all high skillcap champions would get nerfed to the ground since everyone has said skill to execute, and therefore, the excessive unfairness that is given from their kit would no longer be unfair, it would be a matter of who picked into that champion first.

My point stands that ornn does too much base damage for a tank (mind you, his bellow's breath does 20% max hp damage with one auto and cast, and on top of that knocks back the afflicted champion on auto; and people think lee sin's kit is overloaded)

NemeBroJan 1, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Twilight Assault,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=oJYEr0qx,comment-id=0000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-01-01T06:00:00.579+0000)

You say that, but diamond only accounts for about top 0.3% of the entire league community, do you really think it's wise to balance champions based on stats from diamond or higher elo? if that was the case almost all high skillcap champions would get nerfed to the ground since everyone has said skill to execute, and therefore, the excessive unfairness that is given from their kit would no longer be unfair, it would be a matter of who picked into that champion first.

My point stands that ornn does too much base damage for a tank (mind you, his bellow's breath does 20% max hp damage with one auto and cast, and on top of that knocks back the afflicted champion on auto; and people think lee sin's kit is overloaded)

Yes actually, because that should naturally be what competitive players aspire for, to be one of the 0.3%.

And nah, plenty of high skillcap champions are balanced or even bad in high elo. Riven is probably a bit too strong, but Yasuo is a fairly average pick, for example.

rtbf90661456Jan 1, 20181 votes

and so the game should be balanced for faker, amirite?

we should all strive to be rank 1 so why not faker?

let's nerf all champions he's even remotely touched to the ground till every champion hits as hard as janna's auto attack after all, if faker played it prolly busted amirite?

balancing the game on the top 0.3% is dumb, really dumb. I wouldn't even bring this up but please, join the .3% club before you make claims about how the game should be balanced, or why don't we get back on track and talk about how broken ornn was pre-nerf?

NemeBroJan 1, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Twilight Assault,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=oJYEr0qx,comment-id=000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-01-01T06:35:06.371+0000)

and so the game should be balanced for faker, amirite?

we should all strive to be rank 1 so why not faker?

let's nerf all champions he's even remotely touched to the ground till every champion hits as hard as janna's auto attack after all, if faker played it prolly busted amirite?

balancing the game on the top 0.3% is dumb, really dumb. I wouldn't even bring this up but please, join the .3% club before you make claims about how the game should be balanced, or why don't we get back on track and talk about how broken ornn was pre-nerf?

Faker and other people in that skill bracket sure. Faker is extraordinarily good, but he's hardly unassailable. Yassuo turbodumpstered him mid lane, solo killing him several times, while playing into a counter. Your childish tangent is noticed, but ultimately impotent my friend.

And no, just because Faker or whoever plays a champion doesn't necessarily imply that they're overpowered. Looking at the actual performance of the champions is more important. Don't strawman my position just because you aren't clever enough to argue with it.

Also, the game shouldn't be balanced around pro play, since the people playing the game competitively aren't necessarily trying to go pro. Most have zero interest in going pro.

Nah, what's dumb is balancing it around people who aren't actually good at the game. Balance it around people who actually know what they are doing. A player skilled enough to climb to challenger shouldn't be rewarded with a worse, less balanced game.

rtbf90661456Jan 1, 20181 votes

actually, you said we should balance the game based on the top .3% of the populace, i just took it one step further and made that the rank 1 player overall.

the league is a game for the people, not faker; if you can't accept that, then i hope you realize while the "unskilled" 99.7% of the people aren't balanced for, riot makes their revenue almost exclusively from them

NemeBroJan 1, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Twilight Assault,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=oJYEr0qx,comment-id=00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-01-01T18:23:55.113+0000)

actually, you said we should balance the game based on the top .3% of the populace, i just took it one step further and made that the rank 1 player overall.

Faker isn't the rank 1 player overall. He's not peerless in solo queue, even at the highest levels.

the league is a game for the people, not faker; if you can't accept that, then i hope you realize while the "unskilled" 99.7% of the people aren't balanced for, riot makes their revenue almost exclusively from them

Right, and the people playing ranked are trying to rank up. What is the incentive for doing that if the game gets worse and less balanced once you are actually good at the game?

rtbf90661456Jan 1, 20181 votes

so you're telling me it's okay to release a completely busted champion, as long as the challengers can find some counter play right?

riot, let's released a champion with insane damage output but in a very narrow skillshot that is projected, like xerath

good players can juke xerath right? let's buff his q to deal TRUE damage and ramp up his damage by 10x perfectly balanced? perfectly balanced

I mean, all the good challenger players would have no problem dodging such a projected skillshot right? it'll never see play!

NemeBroJan 2, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Twilight Assault,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=oJYEr0qx,comment-id=0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-01-01T23:41:33.668+0000)

so you're telling me it's okay to release a completely busted champion, as long as the challengers can find some counter play right?

riot, let's released a champion with insane damage output but in a very narrow skillshot that is projected, like xerath

good players can juke xerath right? let's buff his q to deal TRUE damage and ramp up his damage by 10x perfectly balanced? perfectly balanced

I mean, all the good challenger players would have no problem dodging such a projected skillshot right? it'll never see play!

No, Xerath is already a solid champion in high diamond and up most of the time. Increasing the damage by ten and making it true damage would make him by far the strongest champion in the game even at challenger.

Your argument is nonsensical to the point of parody. Am I being trolled right now? Because your posts are getting more ridiculous by the moment. If you lack the knowledge and natural ability to respond to my posts there is no shame in conceding when you've been bested my son.

rtbf90661456Jan 2, 20181 votes

your argument is based around how the game should be balanced for the top .3% of the league community, I'm saying we make xerath's spell super forecasted and slow enough so that anyone in that .3% margin can dodge and continue to rape the new xerath, while the other 99.7% of the league community would get raped by said xerath due to huge damage ramps.

I think this would make xerath unplayable by your standards, and therefore, he will get more damage ramps, feeding the cycle on and on until xerath is viable in the .3%

redniwediSJan 1, 20181 votes

If anything buff wise comes through it should be a revert on the cooldown change for his W, and nothing more.

To me he feels like he's in a spot where you can't just pick him up and stomp someone, you have to put a bit of time and effort into learning him now. This is honestly a great spot for him to be in, and even if it turns out that he is not at this level of balance this should be the end goal.

SujirenJan 1, 20181 votes

He is fine as he is now, he is just not freelo anymore. Before the nerf, when runes reforged first came out, you could blind pick him vs anyone, and expect to win lane while playing like a complete ape. Now, I feel like I actually have to think how and when to use my abilities on Ornn , as well as consider the match ups if I want to win.

And A Real HieroJan 1, 20181 votes

Fuck that stupid fucking breath.

RalanrJan 1, 20181 votes

True damage on a tank is just a bad idea.

%health true damage that’s 16% max health on a short cooldown AoE doesn’t seem like a healthy idea.

Harden StepbackJan 2, 20181 votes

https://imgur.com/a/TM7dm

ShiznyteJan 2, 20181 votes

LMAO this is the greatest joke i have heard all day. If anything Ornn needs more nerfs not buffs... if you can't win on Ornn I'm sorry but you maybe doing something wrong. Anyone who plays this champion understand how strong he really is! His Kit has multiple knock-ups (the best CC because tenacity doesn't work vs them) the ability to make others CC last longer, mobility for lane safely, a CC immunity for when things get really interesting, Good damage even though it was Great not to long ago before he had one skill nerfed (IMO he could take another damage nerf and still be just fine)... also extremely low mana costs to just spam his skills in lane.

Win Rate is not the only way to determine if a champion needs tweaks... compare him to his common opponents, play him and get a feel for his strengths/weakness, and see how well he can be played out of his "traditional" role (Ornn Support is very spicy if you haven't tried it I suggest you should if you enjoy support)! People can be learning a champion and tank its win rate, so win rate isn't the only tool to determine a champions strength