[POLL] -- How Annoying is It to Play vs Fizz Currently?

BiggMacc·Dec 28, 2016·7 votes·1,716 views

So I have been browsing the r/fizzmains for the past few weeks since I think the new fizz is boring to play and that they ruined him with the rework. This opinion seems to be collectively shared between many fizz mains, which prompted a rioter to respond to his current state.(http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/rcNKy8HK-anivia-in-71)

One of the arguments given is that even though Fizz is less fun to play, he is more fun to play against. I wonder how true this is considering all the reddit posts complaining about the hit box on his ult, among other things, so I decided to make this poll to how true this is. http://www.strawpoll.me/11970820

29 Comments

TormentulaDec 28, 20165 votes

Is there any champion that isn't annoying if they know what they're doing?

... or are the standards for annoying just mean they're annoying without even being good?

BiggMaccDec 28, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=Im Ok At Camille,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=oF6Jt9AY,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-12-28T21:39:30.129+0000)

Is there any champion that isn't annoying if they know what they're doing?

... or are the standards for annoying just mean they're annoying without even being good?

Well I think wether something is "annoying" is a subjective, could mean that you aren't good at playing against it and finding it annoying, could mean that there is legit no counterplay, making it annoying. I'm just going off what the rioter said in that they seemed to be under the impression that the Fizz rework was succesful since people find Fizz to be less annoying to play against. Not only do I think that they are incorrect, but I think that the only way people wouldn't find Fizz annoying is if he was so bad that they ran over him whenever facing him.

Zen InethDec 28, 20161 votes

Well, annoying is just annoying. Singed and Heimerdinger are annoying because they never interact with you. Riven is annoying because she gets a free pass due to having four dashes in her kit, same with LeBlanc (they're just too safe and never properly receive punishment). Fizz is annoying because of both of these, to an extent. Before, you'd have to have some semblance of skill to hit a skillshot, but now, they took the brain work out of the equation. Fizz just gets free damage, and interacts with you only when its convenient, and if not, he just escapes all punishment by being completely untargetable.

101100111000Dec 28, 20164 votes

Fizz presses R, ADC side-steps

"Damn I missed my u-"

Ult latches onto ADC anyway

:^|

ph1234kDec 28, 20163 votes

I hear this a lot however most players who think they side stepped it just didn't even though the hitbox is visible in the animation.

101100111000Dec 28, 20163 votes

You mean the instant magnetic leash range when it finally stops moving? It's wider than the skillshots actual width while traveling. If someone sidesteps it while it's traveling, they're fully liable to get caught by the magnetic range anyway, because Fizz ulti will just widen and instantaneously latch on to them.

ph1234kDec 28, 20162 votes

Not if they actually sidestep the range. Many a player has sidestepped a Fizz ult successfully. I can see how the mechanic can be annoying but only the very first game you ever play and then you should learn how to avoid it.

101100111000Dec 28, 20161 votes

You have to sidestep a max range hitbox that doesn't actually become visible until the moment the ult is there? Why not just make the entire skillshot wider to make it more reliable at ALL levels of Chum. There's no reason Fizz's max range deserves to be more reliable than any other part of it. It's horrid inconsistency and bullshit design.

ph1234kDec 28, 20162 votes

You only have to sidestep the max range if the shark hit the 3rd range level.

101100111000Dec 28, 20161 votes

That still doesn't change the fact that it's terrible design and should be removed. If his ult is really so unreliable, make the ENTIRE skillshot wider. There's no reason a skillshot should gain reliability just for going farther, it should become less reliable the further it goes out.

ph1234kDec 28, 20162 votes

The reliability doesn't change in any way from its range as the ult currently stands. What it does do is force Fizz to have to engage from a distance and plan his attack whereas the old Fizz could just point blank ult you for boatloads of damage in the middle of your fight making him pretty hard to deal with as there was no way to outplay it.

Now if he point blanks you then you will take insignificant damage unless you are already about to die.

Making the entire SS wider would again improve his point blanking, even if the damage was still reduced based on range the CC itself is still huge and I am pretty sure most players would find it unfair to play against since he could get 5v1'd in that scenario and still just leave by point blanking to land CC on the entire enemy team and just hopping away while the rest getting knocked up and back and all take damage.

101100111000Dec 28, 20161 votes

The DAMAGE and cc scaling design of Fizz's ult forces him to engage from a distance and plan his assassination, not the fact that the ulti has a magnetic when it sits around doing nothing.

You're also severely overestimating the damage and utility of Guppy displacement if you're seriously worried a wider skillshot would somehow make point blank that much better. Point blank is already nearly impossible to miss anyway, why are you worried that a 2-second delayed knock-up with only a 200-unit radius is suddenly going to displace entire teams because the skillshot got widened?

Once again, the design of a larger magnetic hitbox at max range than the rest of the skillshot is inconsistent design and should be exchanged with simply a wider hitbox.

ph1234kDec 29, 20162 votes

Firstly, again the ability is not inconsistent. It is the same every time he casts it and is predictable at all ranges. I am failing to see how you think it is inconsistent.

Onto the radius you quoted at 200 units, this would be WITHOUT widening the skillshot. If you widened it to max ult range it is 450 units which yes can easily displace an entire team.

It sounds more like you wish to introduce inconsistency with his ult so that part of the SS is bigger but doesn't scale as the shark scales. This would mean that the lure and shark are unrelated and people would still complain about the lure attaching and even more so since they won't predict where it will attach from as it gets bigger.

As it stands it only poorly affects bad players. Mostly Bronzies however I know many Bronzies that know how to play against Fizz and his ult and can sidestep it just fine as it doesn't take any particular skill to right click away from the ult, especially at max range when you have so much time to react to this quite slow SS.

101100111000Dec 29, 20161 votes

Inconsistency: The ult skillshot has one width, then gets a wider hitbox once it reaches the end of its range. The ult literally gets a larger latch hitbox at max range. I fail to recall a single skillshot in League of Legends that gets a larger hitbox for MISSING.

You argument for the knock-up: "Making the entire SS wider would again improve his point blanking, even if the damage was still reduced based on range the CC itself is still huge and I am pretty sure most players would find it unfair to play against since he could get 5v1'd in that scenario and still just leave by point blanking to land CC on the entire enemy team and just hopping away while the rest getting knocked up and back and all take damage."

Fizz will never get a 450-unit radius knock-up from point blank ultis. The knock-up radius will always be 200 at point blank. Making the traveling latch hitbox for the skillshot larger will not change this in any way whatsoever.

I don't see how you fail to understand my argument. I am literally asking for the lure to be removed from his ult and just give it a larger hitbox for attaching at all lengths.

This is what I'm basically asking for:

Remove the enlarged lure hitbox for max range ultimate. No skillshot should get a bigger hitbox for missing.
Keep the shark damage and CC scaling based on distance ult travels. This is fine.
Just make the skillshot slightly wider. If Fizz has an excessive amount of trouble landing his ultimate, then you make the latch hitbox slightly wider, not toss a different lure hitbox that screws with people's perceptions of the skillshot.

I don't see how you misconstrued my comments to mean that I want a bigger shark across all distances. Who the hell would want that. I already said the damage and cc scaling of Fizz's ulti is fine, why would I suddenly say I want a Megalodon at point blank.

SpoofghoulDec 29, 20161 votes

Maybe but it gets about as wide as midlane

so even if you see it coming you often still got to burn your flash or ghost anyway

PennsDec 28, 20164 votes

"Now I kill you"

ADC has a Maw or a support

ADC crits you to death and life steals any damage you mightve done

:^| Kappa

101100111000Dec 28, 20162 votes

That doesn't change the fact that they literally made his ult more bullshit. Getting slowed and having everyone knocked away from you is still dangerous as hell even if Fizz himself doesn't kill you, because it makes it easier for literally everyone else on the enemy team to get to you.

PennsDec 28, 20165 votes

Yeah but if you play well its not as impossible to dodge as people say..

Look at those 2 ults from one of my last games for example https://i.gyazo.com/5b759fd887689114e8cdd319fc5724e2.gif

https://i.gyazo.com/f00011207127c315a8712e1a79585a9e.gif

They had to make it more reliable if they force us to hit it from max range, but no Fizz main really likes it anyway lol.

101100111000Dec 28, 20161 votes

I never said it was impossible to dodge. But the instant magnetic hitbox mechanic is outright bullshit, and pretending like your ability to not get hit by it justifies the fact that they gave it unnecessary reliability (especially since max range Fizz ult now deals MORE damage than before ANYWAY) is ridiculous.

If the ult needs to be more reliable, then just make the skillshot wider as a whole. Fizz doesn't even need a max range ulti to kill you, so why does only that part of the ultimate NEED to be able to land much more easily than any other portion of it?

PennsDec 28, 20161 votes

They added the bigger hitbox after it already got released to PBE and (I assume) he was doing horribly, so it probably wasnt "unnecessary".

Because its by far the most rewarding (75 base + 40% ap scaling more compared to mid range) and he does need it to kill people unless they have 0 defenses and/or he is fed hard.

101100111000Dec 28, 20161 votes

I'm calling it unnecessary because there's no reason they couldn't just widen the entire skillshot. It's inconsistent design.

Also, skillshots should NOT gain reliability only at max range. Having the entire skillshot widened would help deal with issues of it missing without making it magically easier to land only at max range because "he needs it".

TormentulaDec 28, 20162 votes

I didn't even view old fizz annoying anymore. He was annoying at release - season 5 but after season 6 there were so many cancerious things I kinda missed laning against fizzes. Old fizz wasn't that bad to outplay, he was just irritating cause it was slightly harder to outplay him due to the standards league had at the time with stuff being more simplistic.

If anything I find him more annoying with this rework since its a little harder to telegraph his ultimates to work around them, makes team fighting really uncoordinated.

ph1234kDec 28, 20161 votes

Well if he is building AP then I can see why they wouldn't like playing him as much since he is squishy enough to take out if he makes a mistake however clevre builders have found a solution to this :)

Ok, not so clever, they just build tank and Fizz's sustained damage becomes amazing. This probably works for most assassins now though since they made them all deal more sustained damage and lowered their burst/widened the burst windows.

Spice POWAHDec 29, 20161 votes

The ult latching on from ridiculous distance is the only triggering thing about him right now, tbh

ABlueQuakerDec 29, 20161 votes

I find it annoying ONLY as a former Fizz main who used to pretty much always land R, who knows the hitbox, who is now forced to see bad Fizz players land ults that they clearly missed. Not to mention the W changes made my Rylai's AP Bruiser Fizz build stop being viable.

To be quite honest, his whole kit feels cheesy. He was in a pretty healthy spot pre-work in the first place and I don't think he needed to be touched. It's probably in Riot's best interest to revert his changes.

Like, right up until they just gutted Shaco's Ability Ratios, Fizz was getting outscaled as an AP Assassin by fucking SHACO.

Suspicious XebraDec 29, 20161 votes

Fizz is a cancer that I cure by banning him.

Athenes LuluDec 29, 20161 votes

My only problem is his ult and how sometimes inconsistent his hitbox is.

It's one of those things that you don't want to see on the winter SR, ever.

AhristocatsDec 29, 20161 votes

His R is annoying

but in the end he's garbage, so i don't mind i like free wins

Project SleekyDec 29, 20161 votes

It seems new fizz is frustrating to play as and against, seeming how in the laning phase his bs hitbox gives him the capacity to just one shot you when you get back the to the lane. It also feels bad actually playing as fizz, seeing how killing anyone is nearly impossible without max range ult as you just stand around like a dying fish for 2 seconds as you get killed.