If at least 40% of the main page is filled with people who are tired of ADC Meta....

Tryce Maxwell··49 votes·1,802 views

Maybe you should listen? I dunno myself, I'm an adc main but there are definitely times I feel like "Oh, I'm feeding, well if I can at least make it to 40 minutes I'll probably still be able to carry" In nearly every game I manage to get behind on.

It feels like just as long as I get some decent peel, I can smear anyone I feel like it. I don't feel like this should be how I need to play ADC, I should absolutely fear assassins, I should be more worried about my positioning and how good my orb walking is. I should feel like the moment a bruiser/assassin/mage actually makes it to my actual champion, that I should actually die. Mages especially.

Speaking of mages, there used to be a time where mages were like the Rock to the Scissors. They outright destroyed your whole world, a few spells and you were done. Just flat out done. Nowadays ADC are getting items like Death's Dance, Phantom Dancer, Maw of Malmortius.... or are just plain life stealing all of the damage you would try to burst them with back

What manner of design is this? It reminds me of how Mages had an answer for ever thing with items. I still think to this day the active on hourglass is entirely bullshit, but then again. in some cases they need that active so they aren't bursted by adc in like, 2 seconds. Since an ADC like Twitch or Trist are capable of two shotting most mages who don't stack health or armor.

I know that for one, I am ready for a change. I do love ADC, but I also love seeing other lanes, other roles carrying as they should. A good mage could, and should, have the right to make a game go their way.

41 Comments

TyrekGoldenspear21 votes

The main page is filled with complaints no matter what meta is going on.

Becuase to be fair, people aren't motivated to make posts to talk about a good game they had as often as they make posts to point out issues with the game.

Hexs Fortune12 votes

There are many people like myself who feel the boards is overreacting in one way or another, but we don't bother making counter threads for one reason or another.

I'll say this: people need to stop complaining about all ADC and focus on the specific ones giving them issues.

Thefrostyviking10 votes

If you actually checked some of those ADC complaints threads you´d notice they were clickbaiting and it was in fact a ardent censer complaint thread.

Two of them at least^^

Then we have some people claiming that Ashe can kill DrMundo in under 5 seconds as long as a support has given her the ardent buff.

Or that a Twitch with 2 items can beat a Zed 1v1 as long as he has the censer buff+ a barrier and nothing more.

And that KogMaw is immortal and can fly.

You shouldn't believe everything you see on the boards.

Kaìju2 votes

"Ashe killing Mundo in under five seconds."

Oh my would I be a happy boy. I usually just eat cleavers because I'm too panicked to dodge properly at how fast he's going.

Thefrostyviking2 votes

I legit tried to do that just last night, i had item 3153 item 3085 item 3035 item 3006 and all i did in the end was kill myself on his thornmail item 3073 item 3073

Kaìju1 votes

Yup, but all ADCs need to be nerfed into the dirt not just the hyper carries, according to the threads it's all of them.

LordGeovanni1 votes

lucain was a problem last season but its not like he got nerfed other adcs just got buffs upon buffs to push him out. All adcs do need to knocked down a peg rather than only trying to deal with the 1 more recent problem while ignoring the previous problems the most recent problem covered up.

Kaìju1 votes

Do you think ADCs being replaced with mages like Ziggs or for the sake of argument Azir if he still has his W tower nuke is fine? Because in a way I do. The issue is if you and others want ADCs nerfed so badly they aren't mandatory, then where else can they be played?

LordGeovanni1 votes

I dont want them nerfed so they arent mandatory that wasnt me speaking there. I want them nerfed back down to the rest of the classes in the game and to do the job they are supposed to do in the grand scheme of the game and not everyone elses jobs too. And no i dont really like ziggs replaceing adcs. Azir maybe that seemed to be something he was designed to do as an option. I was totally fine with Azirs W on towers it was okay but the magic damage to towers if your ap is higher than your ad and and ziggs w is super bs ziggs w even if allowed to exist should not exicute towers until under 10%. also why does his passive now proc on towers.

Kaìju1 votes

When Ziggs was replacing ADCs bot did you think they were in good balance? Towards the beginning of the season.

LordGeovanni1 votes

wrong build item 3085 item 3031 item 3087 or item 3031 item 3087 item 3085

Thefrostyviking1 votes

Not again strong tanks, you´ll deal negative damage with that build.

With mine i did at least get 50% of his before dying.

Ashe is quite free in her builds since her Q scales so well with attackspeed and crit only increases her AA damage by a flat amount anyway.

So AD and attackspeed isn't bad which is why botrk is legit, the synergy between botrk and Ashe´s Q is really good, especially against tanks......or at least that was supposed to be the idea.

But when i first attacked mundo i barely did anything so i chose to grab the last whisper and while it helped it wasn't much, perhaps if i managed to uppgrade it there would have been a difference but it was not to be x)

The builds you suggest are good for waveclear and killing squishies, but absolutely awful against any kind of frontline with armor, twice so when said frontline is fed enough to keep up with you.

Wafflessssss4 votes

Tristana plus Sona is immortal and can fly. And flash. And ult.

Thefrostyviking3 votes

Sona isn't enough to make trist really immortal though, Soraka on the other hand.......

Played a lane with a mage support into a Vayne+raka a while back, we kept trying to harass them both endlessly but neither died then we got double killed by Vayne and lost the game.

I really don't like either of them :(

IcyPepper1 votes

Thankfully Soraka isn't immortal, and once she's dead the ADC isn't immortal any more.

Yeah an item may be OP, but in a 1v2 there's no shame in focusing on the support since they ARE the defensive utility of the ADC+Support combo.

Thefrostyviking1 votes

True, but since you mention it being a....1v2???

Who would ever fight a soraka+anything 1v2?

Ahem, i´ll just assume you meant 2v2, and since you specifically mention it i assume you know the difficulties of targeting a soraka in a teamfight.

IcyPepper1 votes

Who would ever fight a soraka+anything 1v2?

YOU WOULD BE SURPRISED

I HAVE SEEN PEOPLE TRY TO 100-0 THE ADC IN A DUEL AND BITCH ABOUT THE HEALING SUPPORT WHO USES HER OWN HEALTH AS A RESOURCE

But yeah in a teamfight she can be a bit cray-cray when overtuned.

Thefrostyviking1 votes

Lategame raka stacks enough health and probably a warmog if rich thus has a endless supply of heals.

And the sudden heal from W+R+redemption is quite the thing too, add in a knights vow from the tank and you´ll have a carry that is hella hard to kill.

Early on she isn't so bad though, but a good raka is quite hard to catch, like most good enhancers and healers. And in lane she often sits passively unless trying to land her Q to regen some health.

Not that it's that much but everything counts x)

So while i absolutely dislike Janna and lulu i still reserve a spot for soraka just below them x)

LordGeovanni1 votes

every ardent censer thread is an adc thread unless i missed something and someone who is not an adc is dominateing due being pocketed with ardent censer.

Thefrostyviking1 votes

Back when this thread was made there were like 6 or 7 others complaining about various marksmen related stuff, but 2 of them were in fact clickbaits that instead complained about Ardent censer. And only 2 of the others were actual feedback and suggestions for change rather than people mindlessly calling every single marksman in the game OP beyond belief just because they belong to the same class as Twitch,trist and Vayne.

LordGeovanni1 votes

like i said every ardent censer thread is an adc thread. as the only people being broken by ardent censer are adcs not supports they didnt even get use out of their own item for themselves until recently and still not broken for them. not fighters who also supposed to stack ad/on hit but now stack hp but they still have on hit with their hp stack. not assassins who have lots of ad and could use the attack speed to apply it faster even mages can out put more damage with ardent even more so that it has on hit now use your dam auto attack while spells on cooldown for 2 seconds. Just adcs are broken with ardent not because of ardent healing that was never that strong. nor ardent on hit. but because adcs crit to do burst and their crits are based on how much auto attacks they put out they already put out enough to 3 shot people before the ardent censer meta came about that happened in around 2-3 seconds less on the next champion because they were taking damage from item 3085 . Before the ardent censer meta was the adc 1shot meta even through out that adc 2k17 meme just because their counter were popular because they were new and they werent even doing that well dieing to adcs before they could get in range to use their gap closer or adcs drain tanking through their new delay. while i have no doubt people are calling every adc op as a band wagon i remember the times before ardent censer and if you just nerf these adcs they will just give way to the other adcs that were toxic before these new ones.

Thefrostyviking1 votes

The "ADC in 2k17 lul" meme was a thing because only 2 marksmen were really played, and neither were actually played as marksmen-

And rather than saying that assassins were popular you might as well say it was it actually was, they were hella broken, kata had inflated base damage, lethality was insanely broken and Fizz was a monster too.

Rengar was also insane.

Only champs played were lethality users, kata, and the AD versions of xerath down botlane. I think it was like 20 champs in total, maybe a little more.

20 out of more than a 100....... even this current meta has more viable champions.

And marksmen only "burst" using static shiv+rapidfire cannon, at least the common ones-

Then we have a few exceptions like Vayne, Twitch and Draven who was designed to do it.

And i will agree, there have always been a marksman that was OP or at least very strong.

But there have always been others more than them too, something people seem more than happy to ignore. And some just claim that marksmen are favored as they have always had at least 2 champs played, even under the lethality meta-

As if that was any indication of anything, Riot have always aimed at making all classes viable, something which has never been better than now if looking at win and playrates.

And while some would deny it ever happening it's beyond any doubt that the affected tanks were insanely OP after the reworks, just as Malzahar was OP after the mage update until harsh nerfs then from the buffs a while later to the final minion nerfs.

That last part only took around 7 patches or something, while he sat at 56%+ winrate all the while.

But hardly anyone ever complained except the assassins that were getting dumpstered, but at the time not a single other person seemed to care at all.

Other cases?

Graves, Fiora and Syndra to name a few, or the disaster with Zac and the possibly ongoing one with Sejuani.

It's always " why are only the marksmen so OP?!" and meanwhile we have stuff like Cho running around dealing 1,6 k true damage or Fiora completely ignoring the ideas of armor and health.

While i myself despise Twitch, hate Vayne and think that static+RFC should be nerfed i still would not call the marksman class OP-

The only ones that are OP are Twitch and Tristana, Vayne is basically the botlane Fiora but Fiora is apparently balanced so she must be fine right?

But i also wish to highlight a final thing, Trist wasn't nearly as strong as she is now before the ardent buffs and the switch to static build.

And kog was hardly ever played until enhancers took over the support role, now he is also a power pick but was he actually so strong at any other time?

Not as far as i can remember.

It's the fact that Ardent censer gives something between 1,8 to 2,2 k golds worth of stats to the marksman that is making them so strong, had that item not existed as it does now we would never have been at this point.

LordGeovanni1 votes

Adc 2k16 was a thing because the newly reworked assassins died just like everyone else to adcs then Duskblade and edge of night got buffed and the assassins could kill the previously unchecked adcs. One guy who didnt like it rolled out adc 2016 then adc 2k16 and i watched it myself and it carried over from december into january as the first boards meme of the year and there for gained popularity. adcs still 3 shot everything else including assassins they just had a chance to die to an assassin and people were running assassins in every lane 1 due to the rework being recent and recently buffed and 2 because they were the only guys who could kill the adc. Leaving adc mains who were previously used to tanks and supports watching out for them so they dont die without any defense it was a meta of who killed the adc first because both teams were running multiple adc killers. Thats what you get when you want to be the only priority target on the team. Until riot buffed adc defense reworked ga from an everyone item to the highest dps and great burst class can monopolize this item. what ever adc 2k17 became after than was because any weakness an adc had became an adc 2k17 meme large amounts of adc mains took it serious because why should adcs have weakness they are squishy right with all their damage reduction lifesteal and burstmidgation that is their weakness why should they be weak to cc they should kill any cc threats before they can reach into range to use it.

Thefrostyviking1 votes

What? No that is not what was going on ._.

Even before the assasssin update marksmen were in a shitty spot, nearly all of them except Jhin, mf and....i think it was caitlyn? Had poor winrates below 49%, however enough of them did sit between 49 to 50% and thus things were still considered alright though.

But they were literally dying from everything, they had no damage migration or peel since mage supports were the popular ones too. Juggernauts instakilled them, mages instakilled them, mage supports, assasssins, divers and whatnot.

Everything killed them extremely fast and it was well documented to boot, both in normal games and the pro games at the time.

Supports like Lulu and janna were at the time a lot weaker and thus rarely played, some mains did do it but it was still rare, and tanks were hardly ever played at the time nor were tank supports who were considered to be a shitty pick due to mage supports running them out of lane.

What good is a tank to help you in a extended fight if the enemy mage ends it 2 seconds later? That was the mentality at the time.

And when the actual assasssin rework kicked in, at that point all the assassins skyrocketed and all the assassins except Jhin and Varus took a nosedive in winrates, i myself playing at the time tried to play ashe and even while sitting in the middle of my team i still died to the diving rengar going 4,3,1 over my ,5,1,3 in less than 1,5 seconds.

No one managed to react before he was ontop of and killed me.

And that kinda thing was common, normal marksmen were utterly useless at the time, instead a different style lead by Jhin and Varus found popularity.

They stacked lethaltiy and used abilties and thusly played like some AD xerath's, they stayed further out of range than even Lux or Xerath himself.

For a class supposed to be auto attack damage carries that was a truly ridiculous situation, and it got so bad that they were the only marksmen that you didn't get reported for picking. MF was somewhat alright if you were good at her but people will still extremely negative going into it.

Even pro´s could not play marksmen other than Jhin and Varus, it was impossible to do anything meaningful against a decent assassin unless having a team comp dedicated to your protection as a marksman. I watch plenty of streamers so i have a fairly good idea to say the least.

Some smart soul came up with Ziggs botlane, a mage that could actually survive, farm and take towers. The perfect replacement to the too slow and useless auto attackers.

A single shield and a single tank was nowhere near enough,thus tanks and supports were largely considered useless, as were most mages, a number of divers, skirmishers and juggernauts.

In the entire game only around 20 were consistently played at the time.....20 out of 100+.

It's no wonder every single person aside from the assassins hated that meta, and why Riot chose to buff supports so hard and why tanks got so much power in their rework, it was exactly intended to suppress the assassins and keep the ordinary marksmen from just falling over if poked.

Even now many assassins sit at either high playrate or high winrate, Talon,zed, kha6 and kata to name a few that are doing well.

Talon in particular is powerful.

Even now with so many tanks and enhancers going around those guys are still successful.....take a moment to consider just how big the implications of that are.

It means, that despite the nerfs, despite the buffs to nearly every single one of their counters, the new itemization of their targets and focus on protecting the targets those assassins are still finding success in the hands of enough people to maintain a solid presence.

Now take a step back and consider how strong they must have been back just after the reworks when all their counters were weak and itemization against them was lacking.

And finally, you do not read Riot's patch notes at all do you? Otherwise you would know why GA was changed.

It was because tanks were building it, and it was so successful that all the pro tanks did it each and every time-

And the easiest way to fix it? Remove magic resist, give it a build path that leaves them squishier and add in AD, that ensures that only AD champs will build it.

Primarily the melee ones that stack AD and want just a little more time and marksmen that know they are going to die a lot.

That's what the item is now, something you get because you know you´ll die.

Not that it's used much with enhancers sitting on the marksmen trying to ensure they don't get blown up to immense success.

The fact that you seem to claim marksmen guility of all the "bad things" while whitewashing assassins and even blaming marksmen for the GA changes that were caused by tanks i find quite peculiar, for i find it sounding awfully biased in some ways.

I don't know if you were a enthusiast of the first lethality meta or just assassins in general and now struggle due to all you counters being buffed but with statements being contrary to reality and the "whitewashing" of assassins while blaming marksmen for various things i am sorry to say but it's impossible to not get the impression of a massive bias from you.

SociopathFriend8 votes

Maybe you should listen?

The boards are such a small minority of LoL, even if you count Reddit, that frankly it's surprising they get much attention at all; they certainly don't deserve it. The loudest voices are always those that are the least satisfied. How often does a positive topic actually come up on the boards? Like a, "I like this feature, this is fun and balanced" sort of thing?

Maybe 1/1,000th of the posts? At best?

PePsiLemoNN6 votes

Damn , 0.000000001% of the community doesn't like Ardent Censer. Not like preseason is comnig and the game is gonna be COMPLETELY different , so can people stop with useless c+v threads?

DuskDaUmbreon3 votes

{quoted}

Damn , 0.000000001% of the community doesn't like Ardent Censer. Not like preseason is comnig and the game is gonna be COMPLETELY different , so can people stop with useless c+v threads?

.005%, actually. 5% of 10% of 1%.

.000000001% of the community would be only .00067 of a person. Hell, that percent of the world is only .07 people.

Magi Mayvin4 votes

They won't because of worlds, they will probably do some changes this preseason though.

I am sick of having literally the whole game suffer because of a dumb contest.

DuskDaUmbreon4 votes

The boards are about 1% of the playerbase. This is generally common knowledge.

Only about 10% of the boards users actually post. This is knowledge I have from other, similar sites.

And most posts aren't bitching about the meta. Only about 5% actually are. And only the tiniest fraction of those that are bitching about it are actually offering any solution at all.

That's 5% of 10% of 1%. Or .005% of the total players. There are about 67 million League players. And only 3350 people bitching about the meta.

Why the hell should .005% of the players determine what 100% have to experience? That's the same as the city of Honolulu deciding the fate of the world.

Continuing along that line of thought, that's the same as 99% of Honolulu having one or two bad experiences with someone from Japan, so they're advocating nuking the entirety of Asia (Roughly equivalent to the boards wanting to cripple all marksmen because two or three marksmen are strong right now).

And when most of the posts are crappy copy+paste jobs, one-line text half filled with "?????????????????????????????????????????", or other non-argument posts, Riot has no reason to listen to them, any more than I have any reason to listen to the old, insane, homeless guy screaming about the end of the world.

And that's before we mention the fact that nobody posts to say "things are fine". People don't post that. People post when things are not fine. Nobody comes out of a match after curbstomping a Twitch and immediately goes to post about it.

All of this is before I even get into the issue of saying how your "facts" are BS.

AirKingNeo4 votes

Except the boards are stupid. Why should Riot care about a group of people who unironically wanted mages buffed despite them holding the iron grip on mid lane?

Hayaishi23 votes

Boards is overreacting as always, even though ardent censor meta is BS it isn't as 1 dimensional as boards claim it is.

Better Jungler2 votes

The main page is mostly about that close combat mission, and player recruiting right now. like 75%

Tryce Maxwell2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Better Jungler,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=oBElUha6,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-10-07T16:23:20.265+0000)

The main page is mostly about that close combat mission, and player recruiting right now. like 75%

Nonsense, I meant gameplay tab

Best princess EU2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Tryce Maxwell,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=oBElUha6,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-10-07T16:05:31.920+0000)

Speaking of mages, there used to be a time where mages were like the Rock to the Scissors. They outright destroyed your whole world, a few spells and you were done. Just flat out done.

and at that time , mages used to be shit in late game due to no cdr until riot plagued the game with cdr

god bless

ModAcademy Kayn2 votes

The squeaky wheel gets the grease, but doesn't mean the hidden Cog isn't malfunctioning behind the scenes.

Lost R2 votes

Bear in mind that there are countless variables to take into account, many of which should be considered every time you enter the champion select screen.

ADCs have their weaknesses same as everybody else, but so many people are desperately determined to not only ignore those weaknesses, but act against even and especially their own interests. How do you nerf a champion who already has weaknesses everyone seems to ignore? How do you bring balance to a game that is already quite fairly balanced, but most of the game's content is not even considered, thus throwing everything into imbalance?

ReySolomon1 votes

I do feel like mages aren't getting any attention except for item 3504 but last time they touched ap items were nerfs for item 3151 and item 3116.

I hope next season will be awesome!

xJLx MCHammer1 votes

The good old times when

ADC would sacrifice damage for free CC removal. Now they get it for free item 3139 When they had to sacrfice dmg to get another chance. Now they get more dmg.item 3026 When AP champions had burst late game. Now a Trist can crit another carry for 1,500. 2-3 hits to kill a carry..

How the tides have turned

Leaf on Bush1 votes

If at least 40% of the main page is filled with people who are tired of ADC Meta....

It means nothing and Riot is doing right to ignore it and please stop spamming threads.

i cant move wtf1 votes

It's actually a sign that the board mains are really bad at the game and refuse to get better. The opinions of the boards aren't representative of the actual playerbase, only a tiny vocal minority.

Rins Thigh Socks1 votes

[{quoted}](name=i cant move wtf,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=oBElUha6,comment-id=0010,timestamp=2017-10-09T13:44:51.406+0000)

It's actually a sign that the board mains are really bad at the game and refuse to get better. The opinions of the boards aren't representative of the actual playerbase, only a tiny vocal minority.

qtpie said it's super stale, he's an AD main.

Tyler1 said it sucks because all aggression botlane is discouraged if you want to win.

scarra thinks it sucks.

Froggen said that it's good for midlane streamers because you can literally play anything you want and as long as you rush Mobis and ult bot you'll be fine.

The meta blows and everyone knows it.

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