Why Zoe is not OP ( Serious Discussion )

Warm Love Nectar··2 votes·1,488 views

There are many who I've came across who consistantly flame throughout an entire game over me using Zoe, and throw out there the "Shes broken" "What have you done rito" "balance team sucks" lines. Here is my opinion of why Zoe is not OP and please do feel free to comment kindly.

+"Zoe is a 1 shot champ."+

Firstly lets define 1 shot, even if you don't agree with this definition (because for some reason people don't agree on what it means) for the sake of this conversation a 1 shot is a single engagement with a champion, 1 exchange of spells/abilities. This is partially true, Zoe is a one shot champ. As long as she is ahead in items, lands her avoidable E, throws back her skill shot, lands a basic attack, hits skill shot, then basic attacks again. That combo works on most ADC and Mid champs, however it DOES NOT work on champs who are tanks or tanky supports that build magic resist. It also does not work as well if Zoe misses her E which has a decent cooldown when compared to Lux's root , Zyras root, or Morgana's root.

People who define 1 shot as a 1 hit 1 kill ability mistaken her Q for one. Firstly, it does high damage it has to be thrown over a distance. This can be countered by running towards Zoe, not away. Secondly, Zoe landing her E is detrimental to scoring yourself a kill, because the E increases the damage the Q deals drastically, this can be avoided by side stepping and staying away from walls when you see a Zoe walking towards a wall. Third, Zoe's sleep is long, however the next attack from an enemy champion wakes up your champion, canceling her E. Her E also has a relatively long cooldown unless landed, in which the cooldown is decreased from around 10-15 seconds to 6-10. The E has also already been nerfed to take longer to hit the ground should you miss it.

People seem to not realize the amount of damage Zoe does in a full combo is equal or lesser when compared to champs like Zed, Kha'zix, Nasus, Vayne, Draven, Lux, Shyvana, Katarina, Evelyn, Gangplank, Vi, Akali, Veigar, Diana, Fizz, Kayn, Orianna, Quinn, Talon, Xerath, Rengar, and Swain. All of the champion I've listed all have 1 shot potential equivalent to that of Zoe. Their abilities may be executed in different ways however you cannot deny at the end of a combo they dont all do similar damage to a non-tank. Especially champs like Veigar and Nasus' whose stacks have no ceiling.

+"Zoe has no counters."+

Below I will list Zoe's counters.

Heimerdinger - Place turrets stategically to block skill shots.

Malzahar - Spawns can be used to block skill shots.

Talon - 1 shot from lvl 6.

Zed - 1 shot from lvl 6.

Xerath - Massive damage from the beginning.

Lux - Predicts Zoe's R's with Q's and a combo.

Veigar - Easy to trap and 1 shot zoe.

Nasus - (Late game) 1 shot Zoe, tanks hits even without MR.

Fizz - Untargetable, massive damage, R does between 50% and 70% for the duration of the game. Can hop over R's and Q's.

Swain - lifesteal, vision, slows, pulls, he sort of counters 50% of champs right now.

+"Zoe takes no skill."+

Zoe's two damaging abilities are skill shots. Zoe is super squishy and later in the game can easily be one shot by maybe 80% of champs. Zoe's Q's range moves with her champ. She can't be entirely out of harms way when using them. Roots work on Zoe while she R's, she comes back out of her other portal rooted/stunned/etc. Zoe needs to keep her distance while maintaining pressure which in high elos is very difficult with such a squishy champ. Zoe is almost always the target of junglers early game and the target of adcs late game.

Advice to people playing against Zoe: Apply pressure the entire game and have Cleanse if she is in your lane. The further away you let her go the more damage her Q will do. Always put a minion inbetween you and Zoe. If Zoe is running right at you or no moving she has her E. Play her to learn her range and disadvantageous scenarios. Playing her for your first 15 games or so will show you what I mean.

To all, good luck and have fun.

11 Comments

BeatzBoyFTW2 votes

People who define 1 shot as a 1 hit 1 kill ability mistaken her Q for one

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4jvawwI9Kno

Say it 1 more time....

All of the champion I've listed all have 1 shot potential equivalent to that of Zoe.

A bunch of their "1-shots" requires a lot of combos & combined mechanics to achieve it. Zoe on the other hand, as you watched the video, only requires her to adjust her Q direction & make sure she runs closer to her opponent as fast as she can.

Warm Love Nectar1 votes

Firstly... thats a LCS clip, not a normal player playing. Second, she killed an Ezreal, a champ with similarly low health. As I said above in my original post she can 1 shot adcs and mid laners no problem, HOWEVER Almost any champ can do it right back. You're comparing gameplay of an LCS champ to normal people, people in that elo can use champs like Urgot Jungle and Zilean ADC. If we're going to turn to LCS and youtubers for answers, then every champ is "OP" because you can look up almost any champ in any lane dominating.

Ixoziel1 votes

If she's not OP why is she pick/ban in the LCS?

You list all these champions and make silly comparisons to them. You forget all the reasons why comparing them is pointless.

A: She can do this damage from insane range, making her very safe. That's why comparing her to Zed for instance is complete lunacy. You can easily stun Zed as soon as he lands (he will always land in the same spot) and then kill him.

B: She can do this damage on a VERY LOW COOLDOWN. Lux and Syndra need to commit with their ults. Let's say you're sivir and you spellshield Lux's ult. Great, you're basically safe from getting oneshot for over a minute (until late game with high CDR). Let's say you're Sivir and you spellshield Zoe's bubble. Great, you're safe for 10 seconds.

C: She can do insane damage as early as Morellos. Gangplank needs to sit top afk farming for ages until he has the same burst potential that she does. Granted that Gangplank is one of the few champions that you listed that sees a lot of play in the LCS and he needs a nerf too.

Warm Love Nectar2 votes

The only factor I believe you are missing in point B and C is Zoe even late game has below 2,000 health with nearly no armor or MR, because those aren't used in her builds. So even though yes, she doesn't rely on a low cooldown R for her massive damage, she relies on a player who understands all champs she faces. If you play Zoe to a decent degree and try to use her against a champ you don't know too well you will not do well. If you are an aggressive or impatient player you will not do well with her. If you don't fully understand the facets of her abilities matched with certain runes and different builds for different situations you can't use her in ranked. Comparing her to Lux and Syndra is actually a great example I'm glad you brought up because champs like Lux, Syndra, Zed, Evelyn, Talon, Heimerdinger, Xerath and Fizz especially late game do not need their R's to kill her. Combos from most champs without R can kill Zoe. Q->Basic Attack-> E -> Basic attack from a Lux with Morello, Void Staff, and Ludens (an average 25 min build) can easily kill a Zoe with an E on cooldown.

If Riot wants to "balance" Zoe for the community (which just means delegate damage or make useless) then there are very few ways to do this without a rework.

+Nerf 1+ Decrease Q Damage 15% Decrease cooldown 10% Increase chance of spell minions E Is not canceled by next attack and damage reduced by 20% R Cooldown starts from 20

+Nerf 2+ Increase cooldown by 10% decrease damage by 10% Spells come only minions and only 1 every other wave E Time asleep is immediate but halved R Cooldown starts from 10

+Nerf 3+ Halve Damage of Q Increase chance of spell drops E Cooldown starts from 10 and damage is increase by 15% R Cooldown Starts from 10 invincible during R

These are ways I've understood from the community would make Zoe more acceptable.

vgamedude1 votes

I've not ever thought she was op. There are no numbers that back up her being op at all.

Ixoziel1 votes

She's pick/ban in the LCS. Pros don't pick champs UNLESS they're extremely strong or there's a very niche situation in which they excel. If they're strong in a niche, you'll see them picked rarely (yasuo was picked once last night, for instance). If they're strong generally, you see them picked often (Sejuani). If they're overpowered, they're banned firstpicked so that the other team can't get them. Guess where Zoe falls? In the firstpick / ban category.

vgamedude1 votes

{quoted}

She's pick/ban in the LCS. Pros don't pick champs UNLESS they're extremely strong or there's a very niche situation in which they excel. If they're strong in a niche, you'll see them picked rarely (yasuo was picked once last night, for instance). If they're strong generally, you see them picked often (Sejuani). If they're overpowered, they're banned firstpicked so that the other team can't get them. Guess where Zoe falls? In the firstpick / ban category.

She is not pick or ban, she is left open or traded at times. She is banned alot but saying that is completely incorrect.

Jarvan is also picked a load and you don't see gutting nerfs like zoe is getting. Zoe by every other metric that actually matters (hint: it's not ban rate) is entirely balanced.

CppL1 votes

{quoted}

I've not ever thought she was op. There are no numbers that back up her being op at all.

What about like 60% ban ratio across all elos? not even talking about lcs where she"s picked or banned prety much 100%

vgamedude1 votes

{quoted}

What about like 60% ban ratio across all elos? not even talking about lcs where she"s picked or banned prety much 100%

Ban rate doesnt mean crap when her winrate and literally every other stat points to her being mediocre.

CppL1 votes

{quoted}

Ban rate doesnt mean crap when her winrate and literally every other stat points to her being mediocre.

kassadin pre rework also had 50% win ratio.Btw i dont think Zoe is op she"s bad designed.You cant creata a burst mage and put all of her burst on 1 low cd spell.it doesnt work like that.Just like nidale was pre rework.

vgamedude1 votes

{quoted}

kassadin pre rework also had 50% win ratio.Btw i dont think Zoe is op she"s bad designed.You cant creata a burst mage and put all of her burst on 1 low cd spell.it doesnt work like that.Just like nidale was pre rework.

I don't know if I believe you. Just heard someone here say he was 58 percent winrate when he was permabanned and known as kassawin.

I don't know myself nor does anyone have any stats from then I don't think.

If she was as broken as everyone says she wouldn't currently be tier 4 on op gg which is high elo Koreans of all things.

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