Zed is in a good spot, so I think it's safe to say that. . .

SugeMinPikk·Jul 3, 2018·72 votes·17,879 views

. . . we can give some counterplay back to his R.

119 Comments

RanmaruJul 3, 201821 votes

Mages need counterplay to him to zhonyas isnt on a 60second cd like his r

BLACK REALM GODJul 3, 20186 votes

{quoted}

Mages need counterplay to him to zhonyas isnt on a 60second cd like his r

bro... zhonyas with the right runes can be on a 30 second timer.

NyarlathοtepJul 3, 201813 votes

Because mage sure can invest to domination tree for the active item cd reduction. Brilliant! /s

BLACK REALM GODJul 3, 201811 votes

{quoted}

Because mage sure can invest to domination tree for the active item cd reduction. Brilliant! /s

well... actually...

the domination tree is better for mages that want to deal damage than any of the sorcery tree. you can get 2 runes from sorcery if you need them like manaflow or scorch.

NyarlathοtepJul 3, 20182 votes

And for those that prefer burst over sustain. Some of us go sorcery because we want sustain over burst. And we cant go secondary domination because we usually need perfect timing or boneplate.

BLACK REALM GODJul 3, 20181 votes

{quoted}

And for those that prefer burst over sustain. Some of us go sorcery because we want sustain over burst. And we cant go secondary domination because we usually need perfect timing or boneplate.

if you prefer sustain over burst then you should probably start going resolve + sorcery. the keystones for sorcery arent that great for sustain to be honest.

i mean that's why you pick one keystone over the other.

but if you're getting zhonya regardless and you want it to be on a shorter cooldown then you have to make your cuts. probably first should get a champion that can use it. then get a rune kit that benefits it. if you cant come up with that combination then maybe you're optimizing incorrectly.

NyarlathοtepJul 3, 2018

You have mistaken me. I meant sustained damage over burst damage.

BLACK REALM GODJul 3, 20182 votes

{quoted}

You have mistaken me. I meant sustained damage over burst damage.

sustained damage would be precision actually.

NyarlathοtepJul 3, 2018

Which is tailored almost exclusively for ad ones. Mages cant make use of their keystones, and the bonus atk speed sucks major ass (dont you dare bring up ff that shit has penalty on ranged making it difficult to use by mages + most mages dont get the chance/ dont want to aa). The closest mages have for sustained damage is comet.

BLACK REALM GODJul 3, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Which is tailored almost exclusively for ad ones. Mages cant make use of their keystones, and the bonus atk speed sucks major ass (dont you dare bring up ff that shit has penalty on ranged making it difficult to use by mages + most mages dont get the chance/ dont want to aa). The closest mages have for sustained damage is comet.

fleet footwork is only reduced if you heal on minions. if you hit a champion with it you get full benefit.

comet is not the sustained damage rune of sorcery. it's actually aery. but you have to have DOT to use it effectively.

precision has a bunch of runes that work for mages. presence of mind and triumph help if you're going for kills. tenacity is pretty bad A if you're a mage. and the last three coup de grace, last stand, cut down all work no matter what champ you have as a mage. you'll never have more hp than a real tank, if you do you can get the one that grants you damage based on missing hp because mages have pretty great hp regen, and if you want to be aggressive because hp is too much to think about you can get coup de grace and just be good randomly.

NyarlathοtepJul 3, 20182 votes

fleet footwork is only reduced if you heal on minions. if you hit a champion with it you get full benefit.

Like i said earlier, most mages DONT want to be within aa range. Mostly because they will get shredded the moment they do by pretty much everything.

comet is not the sustained damage rune of sorcery. it's actually aery. but you have to have DOT to use it effectively.

Depends on the range. For a swain, it is the best sustained damage keystone. For xerath however it isnt since the more distance the more time it takes to come back (for a bit though). Also it isnt made for most mages so there is also that.

tenacity is pretty bad A if you're a mage

Everything in that tree suck ass for a mage.

And you still havent addressed the thing about mages not being able to utilize the extra atk speed.

BLACK REALM GODJul 3, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Like i said earlier, most mages DONT want to be within aa range. Mostly because they will get shredded the moment they do by pretty much everything.

Depends on the range. For a swain, it is the best sustained damage keystone. For xerath however it isnt since the more distance the more time it takes to come back (for a bit though). Also it isnt made for most mages so there is also that.

Everything in that tree suck ass for a mage.

And you still havent addressed the thing about mages not being able to utilize the extra atk speed.

anyone can utilize extra attack speed. if you're a mana user and you're not buying attack damage, but you're also out of mana... high attack speed can allow you to last hit early game. item 3115 item 3091 on a mage can actually be pretty interesting. i did it with morgana once and was quite amused. item 3100 requires you to be able to auto attack and if you have a super slow auto attack... well you're going to have to stand still while the attack finishes or not get the benefit.

RanmaruJul 3, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=BLACK REALM GOD,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=nLsZEEJ6,comment-id=000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-07-03T22:40:28.836+0000)

anyone can utilize extra attack speed. if you're a mana user and you're not buying attack damage, but you're also out of mana... high attack speed can allow you to last hit early game. on a mage can actually be pretty interesting. i did it with morgana once and was quite amused. requires you to be able to auto attack and if you have a super slow auto attack... well you're going to have to stand still while the attack finishes or not get the benefit.

Im pretty sure most of the people in this game can last hit without abilities on mages

BLACK REALM GODJul 3, 20183 votes

{quoted}

Im pretty sure most of the people in this game can last hit without abilities on mages

im pretty sure there's a chart somewhere that proves that statement incorrect.

Daddy AntsJul 3, 201810 votes

{quoted}

Mages need counterplay to him to zhonyas isnt on a 60second cd like his r

60?

His R late game with all that CDR is more like 36 seconds.

Dog of PavlovJul 3, 201844 votes

"Mages have zhonyas" god this pisses me off. That is the ONLY REAL defensive item we can get.

Meanwhile AD assassins can get: item 3156 item 3026 item 3139 as well as having nullifying orb!! Yay!!

0NeonTesticles0Jul 3, 20185 votes

item 3102

Eye Of TerrorJul 4, 20187 votes

Yeah, because it's really worth it having to invest gold in an unreliable shield and wasted MR (inc Zed mains: 'but it counters my passive damage so oppppp')

Misses Old TalonJul 4, 20186 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dog of Pavlov,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=nLsZEEJ6,comment-id=00000002,timestamp=2018-07-03T19:14:51.736+0000)

"Mages have zhonyas" god this pisses me off. That is the ONLY REAL defensive item we can get.

Meanwhile AD assassins can get: as well as having nullifying orb!! Yay!!

Banshies? Abysal Mask? The fact that all mage items give high amounts of health??

Somebody Love MeJul 4, 201810 votes

Abyssal mask got nerfed for mages. It's only good on tanks and melee AP champs like Diana and Galio

BLACK REALM GODJul 4, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Actual Trash,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=nLsZEEJ6,comment-id=0000000200020000,timestamp=2018-07-04T07:19:06.282+0000)

Abyssal mask got nerfed for mages. It's only good on tanks and melee AP champs like and

i get it on champs that have high mana costs when im facing heavy magic damage team comps. the heal and aura are pretty valuable. the gold cost though is a bit iffy sometimes since it's more expensive than ROA.

are you sure you dont mean adaptive helm? because that item is glorious on anyone.

either way it depends on who you're facing.

Somebody Love MeJul 4, 20181 votes

The aura is useless on anyone ranged because if you're playing how you should, no one will ever be in its range. Only exception is maybe Liss because all her shit is basically melee range anyway.

BLACK REALM GODJul 4, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Actual Trash,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=nLsZEEJ6,comment-id=000000020002000000000000,timestamp=2018-07-04T15:55:17.548+0000)

The aura is useless on anyone ranged because if you're playing how you should, no one will ever be in its range. Only exception is maybe Liss because all her shit is basically melee range anyway.

idk man. that aura's range is still about 325. you put it on karthus, amumu, mundo, etc. or even just someone like ryze. you can deal significant damage. it works in combination with sunfire for the most part.

it's not really about the aura so much as it's about the magic resist and the heal. banshees veil is a nice thought, but then you're left without a decent armor item unless you get zhonya and that's not even that decent. if you get sunfire you have to get abyssal. it's pretty much a rule.

It Hertz When IPJul 4, 20181 votes

All of those guys though are toplaners (except Karth). Bruisers. I.E. not facing the plethora of midlane assassins.

CptnColaJul 10, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=BLACK REALM GOD,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=nLsZEEJ6,comment-id=00000002000200000000,timestamp=2018-07-04T14:24:48.284+0000)

i get it on champs that have high mana costs when im facing heavy magic damage team comps. the heal and aura are pretty valuable. the gold cost though is a bit iffy sometimes since it's more expensive than ROA.

are you sure you dont mean adaptive helm? because that item is glorious on anyone.

either way it depends on who you're facing.

abyssals range got nerfed so ranged champs doesnt have much from the mr reduction if they cant apply it

It Hertz When IPJul 4, 20181 votes

Banshees works in exactly one situation, getting jumped in the jungle. Anywhere else - laning, teamfights, duels - it's stupidly easy to pop the spell shield before going in.

Arcane Blue BoiJul 4, 20184 votes

oh thank god i am able to obtain 45 armor. It would be a shame if item 3156 item 3111 item 3139

Critmaster GarenJul 3, 201820 votes

same for trundle. sorry, but its true.

what that champion does to other fighters and tanks is downright unfair, and there is no way to play around it.

Pika FoxJul 3, 20182 votes

Trundle presses R: Full AD Rammus - Ok.

Critmaster GarenJul 3, 20185 votes

[{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=nLsZEEJ6,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2018-07-03T19:08:02.978+0000)

Trundle presses R: Full AD Rammus - Ok.

trundle pressed q: minus 30 ad.

Pika FoxJul 3, 20184 votes

Full AD rammus cares not for your paultry -30 AD, he only cares about the fact that that Q just hit for 25+% HP.

Akali is SO HOTJul 3, 201814 votes

Having QSS negate his ult made him incredibly hard to balance. Trying to balance him around the fact that he didn't have an ult in high elo, but always had one in Bronze because nobody ever bought QSS made him a balance nightmare. The fact that this is getting upvoted so much just shows that most people weren't around when this was actually a thing and never experienced how awful it was for balancing a ton of champions. Just blindly upvoting a nerf Zed thread like always.

D357R0Y3RJul 3, 20187 votes

not only that

but it's funny how building an item is considered as a counterplay

but it's k we have you Akali Senpai, making the boards better [slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

5Stacks1kTrueDmgJul 4, 20184 votes

I started Leauge when QSS removing Zed and Fiora(I think) ult wasn't a thing anymore.Just thinking about it,buying a 1300g item two completely negate a crucial ultimate of a Champion's kit.Pretty unreasonable,no wonder it's removed.

MarshbouyJul 4, 20182 votes

had to scroll way too far to see this.

iDarkWindJul 5, 20181 votes

And we're not considerating the fact how his ultimate works now. Stealing AD mechanic would be pure useless and a nerf compare to his pre-rework Assassin update where he would get the bonus AD anyways from his W. But yeah, I don't think this most of this player here on this thread care about that, if he went to 44% Win Rate would be a bless to them.

Meep ManJul 3, 201810 votes

Zed is fair and balanced so lets nerf him?

BLIGHTBRINGERJul 3, 201817 votes

Point to Click R ability is not fair.

Warlord RhinarkJul 3, 201825 votes

[{quoted}](name=Darkin Hybrid,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=nLsZEEJ6,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2018-07-03T18:35:01.196+0000)

Point to ~~Click~~ Kill R ability is not fair.

ftfy

RaiyzaJul 3, 20184 votes

Point and click is not fair period. That is the entire reason why Ryze was changed in the first place. There is no skill in it. That's why the Warwick rework was so successful.

SammystormJul 3, 20181 votes

Point and click is fine depending on the skill. Like Mao'kai w for example. Point click should have short range which zed's r does. I honestly think it is ok.

NineTailedMysticJul 4, 20183 votes

625 range is short?

SammystormJul 5, 20181 votes

Yes actually. Most abilities have much longer range then that. 625 is basically auto attack range.

NineTailedMysticJul 5, 20182 votes

625 is longer than any base auto attack range excluding Cait's at 650.

SammystormJul 6, 20181 votes

75 units longer then an auto attack is not substantial enough to make a huge difference. The only time it is a big deal is when you are auto attack reliant and alone against zed. The rest of the time you can't just stay out of range and usually farm alright.

Who Fed RuJul 3, 20182 votes

Because there isn't a single mage who doesn't have one?

4evaJul 3, 20184 votes

[deleted]

HexshotJul 3, 20182 votes

{quoted}

zed needs buffs not nerfs if you think otherwise you suck

you srys? Zed is so broken and needs to be nerfed --From a player who doesn't know what is

lil kodaJul 4, 20184 votes

hes literally sitting as one of the best mid laners on opgg, stop acting like zeds ult doesnt go through armor x d

HexshotJul 4, 20183 votes

{quoted}

hes literally sitting as one of the best mid laners on opgg, stop acting like zeds ult doesnt go through armor x d

Correction : he's literally sitting as one of the best mid laners on op.gg in the Korean server and yea he is in a kinda good spot after the lethality came back but he isn't broken or overpowered that needs to be nerfed asap his mid-late game is still complete sht otherwise he's good in early.

Zed's ult goes through armor? lol good one [zombie-brand-clap]