Apart from the fact that the old 50% bonus crit damage suited Garen well better for bursting down squishies, new Infinity Edge only works with additional Crit items now, rendering it completely useless on him. His E being able to crit thus basically aswell.
On a side note: i still haven´t figured out any adc build with new IE that gives u exactly smooth 100% crit chance.
bigtendie6 votesLet's be honest, was anyone really taking IE on Garen on purpose? You wouldn't do it unless extremely fed.
Romans VI XXIII2 votes
Actually works quite well.
Gewaltherrscher2 votesLet's be honest, was anyone really taking IE on Garen on purpose? You wouldn't do it unless extremely fed.
Crit Garen was the only way to overpower games solo with Garen so that the enemy felt it in their bones. Taking the option away is a nerf to good Garen players because they do not have the option or its not as rewarding outplaying/beating your enemy due to the fact that crit is not that viable anymore. Its a nerf to skilled Garen players.
JusticePauldrons3 votesI don't thin riot considered Garen's interaction with crit chance at all with this patch. It makes the E's crit element entirely redundant and nearly unusable. On top of that they are bringing back Atma's and removing the crit chance from it, like what the hell man.
Unfortunately with the current Itemization I think it might be time to remove the critical chance element from his E entirely and simply buff the skills AD scaling to compensate. I am always a fan of stat scaling as it is a easily changeable fix that is quick to fine tune or hot fix in case the changes are underwhelming or overwhelming.
But really the problem with Garen is one fundamental to his kit, the game has drastically changed, and he no longer has the tools to keep up. Without any form of crowd control, a dash, or in combat healing he doesn't have the options that other top laners have and he can no longer keep up with the mobility meta.
Suggestions:
Add a small Rengar/Illaoi leap to the end of Garen's Q that triggers in a certain range. This will allow him engagement opportunities without burning flash, but wouldn't be overly strong because he has no crowd control to back a hard engage and displace the enemy team. It just follow his current doctrine of "run at dudes and jump on them" except with an actual jump. This will also help his laning phase against the increasing prevalence of ranged top laners, giving him opportunities to outplay them.
Add crowd control. Lets face it, with the ever increasing mobility meta the viability of a "tank" with no crowd control and functions as a Pseudo-Assassin until he falls off is pretty nil. While I agree that adding easily accessible crowd control his his kit may prove to be too strong it doesn't hurt to experiment with it. Adding a minor slow to his E that Mirrors the current philosophy of being weaker against a group may be the thing that forces the enemy to want to keep him away and actually waste skills on him when building tank. Knowing that him slowing the entire team in a cluster is a very real threat or having the ability to slow an assassination target without being reliant on Dead Mans would be a good boon to him.
Alternatively on the opposite end of the spectrum some element of crowd control could be added to his ult similar to other demacian melee champions such as Poppy, Galio, J4, or Xin. Something simple that interacts with how his kit functions normally but adds slightly more flavor to it such as "If an enemy is executed by Demacian Justice, enemy champions within X units of the impact site are dragged to the center". This would cause enemies to avoid wanting to cluster around the villain for fear of getting dragged in and actually fear the justice coming their way. This suggestion is especially good because it gates the crowd control element with the pre-requisite of killing an enemy with an ability on a long cooldown.
Allow Courage to stack infinitely while decreasing the rate that is increases past 40 Armor/MR. This will have little impact besides making him Tankier in the late game of allowed to farm past 160 units.
Vlada Cut3 votes is prefferable on 
with Boneplating for reduced damage. It'll be even better when Spear of Shojin comes out.
Although his E should have a change, because armor break, crit and true damage don't go well. And the only reason his armor break exists is because of 
. But hey.... better all 3 then nothing I guess. :/
Also, why is no one adressing 's bug where his Q proc's before the strikes a target? It's annoying.
Gewaltherrscher2 votes
Also, why is no one adressing
Stormrazor is also bugged on Garens Q the Q only uses your AD + base damage Q. It needs a hotfix!
Gewaltherrscher2 votesGarens E definetly needs a change its redunant . Max Q is the way to go E is only usefull if you want to clear waves and even then its badly cooded so you have to buy tiamat or bamis to be more consistent last hitting...
Romans VI XXIII2 votesTo be fair maxing Q wasn't popular a few patches ago, until they buffed it.
Ever since they nerfed the silence on Q scaling, maxing E was the way to go.
Critmaster Garen3 votes[{quoted}](name=Arndt E Z,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=nFzMfHTH,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2018-06-01T21:47:56.355+0000)
To be fair maxing Q wasn't popular a few patches ago, until they buffed it.
Ever since they nerfed the silence on Q scaling, maxing E was the way to go.
what?
i think we might be playing a different game. q max has been standart in lane since the juggernaut rework.
reasoning was always that early on his q deals the same damage as a full spin with the exception that the target is isolated for at least 2/3 of the duration. the damage on the q is frontloaded, and points scale up your utility.
a lot of garen mains also tend to max w second for the additional duration and help you through your weakass lane phase.
early on the spin is really only there to clear minions and apply the armor shred debuff to make the q deal even more damage.
Romans VI XXIII2 votesE actually gave more damage before they buffed Q recently, yes it was front loaded, but maxing E gave you stronger dueling and pushing power.
But in the end it really just depended on your strategy. Mine was usually split push, hence max E.
But know I max Q like before the old nerf
ModDaenrysTargaryen1 votesIf you can not get 20% crit anymore you will never be able to get a smooth 100% crit chance
Pokemonred2006 votesThere is a way to get exactly 100% crit:
Buy Three Zeal Items, and then finish with a Brawler's Gloves.
It's not smooth I guess, but it is exact.
Billy VoHagen1 votesThey should reduce crit items from 30% crit to 25%, no idea why they didn't.
Romans VI XXIII1 votesCause 60 is better than 50, and we can't be nerfing ADCs to hard now.
Press Q Win1 votesBest crit build for garen is like 
Boom you explode any carry ! Joke aside, now that IE interaction is gone with Garen E, maybe they could remove it and add power somewhere else or increase the damage from E or literally remove the level interaction with his E. Garen could be better and tbh the crit damage was nothing but a useless gimmick.
Critmaster Garen4 votes[{quoted}](name=Press Q Win,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=nFzMfHTH,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2018-06-01T18:11:09.450+0000)
Best crit build for garen is like
riot said, that the crit scaling doesnt factor into garens power budget. so even if they removed it, he doesnt get anything in return based on that mechanic.
instead of taking uniqueness away from his kit, they should add bonus attack speed scaling to the number of his spin ticks to make zeal items 100% cost effective on him, and make + + bruiser items a viable build on him.
Zero Skill Tank2 votesThat could open 
for him, and point-and-click slow on the king of point-and-clickness is no bueno. Rito will never take that risk.
Critmaster Garen2 votesThat could open
i dont see the issue. neither the on hit, nor the lifesteal still dont apply on his spin. so other than getting a couple extra spin ticks out of the attack speed, it would literally be the same as building it on him right now.
even with an attack speed scaling added to the spin, the item would still be less good than on darius who auto attacks a lot more and values attack speed higher, and i dont see him building a bork either.
Zero Skill Tank1 votesRange on Apprehend is only 15 units shorter than on BoTRK, so on Darius is doesn't make any sense.
Critmaster Garen1 votesRange on Apprehend is only 15 units shorter than on BoTRK, so on Darius is doesn't make any sense.
it doesnt make any sense on garen either. if you want to get a slow, you might aswell pick up any other slow item. a 
and a couple movement speed items make more sense than bork on garen just for the slow.
ZackTheWaffleMan1 votes
is the king of point-and-clickness.
Zero Skill Tank1 votesPanth is pretty focused on point-and-clickness, but unlike Garen he has 2 abilities you can dodge or cancel.
Press Q Win1 votes[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=nFzMfHTH,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2018-06-01T18:22:10.663+0000)
riot said, that the crit scaling doesnt factor into garens power budget. so even if they removed it, he doesnt get anything in return based on that mechanic.
instead of taking uniqueness away from his kit, they should add bonus attack speed scaling to the number of his spin ticks to make zeal items 100% cost effective on him, and make
and make him neccessary to get attack speed ? it would force certain itemization .. it would feel bad
Critmaster Garen2 votes[{quoted}](name=Press Q Win,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=nFzMfHTH,comment-id=000300000001,timestamp=2018-06-01T20:46:27.820+0000)
and make him neccessary to get attack speed ? it would force certain itemization .. it would feel bad
why would it make it neccessary to take attack speed?
they could just add the scaling. like his current spins/lvl + additional spins for bonus attack speed.
its not going to be a buff compared to his standart bruiser build. it would just make other items just as effective. there is no need to make him rely on the stat. it would just give him the option to build it without loss in gold effectiveness.
Delebru1 votesi remember Garen initially didn´t have crit on his E after juggernaut rework, but many players complained so they added it back in, but reducing ad scaling on his E as compensation. So it did/does factor into his power budget.
Critmaster Garen2 votesi remember Garen initially didn´t have crit on his E after juggernaut rework, but many players complained so they added it back in, but reducing ad scaling on his E as compensation. So it did/does factor into his power budget.
that doesnt mean they reduced it because of the crit scaling. if riot repertoir said that it doesnt factor into his power budget, then that means he doesnt lose out in another place as a result of it. if the ad scaling on the spin was reduced in the same pbe patch, then by that logic hed have done it anyway. crit scaling or no crit scaling.
the original plan for the spin was to slow garen by 30% when he hits enemy units with it. as you might imagine, this wasnt very well received. so they removed the self slow and reduced the spin damage by 25% when the target isnt isolated. maybe youre thinkling of that.
Delebru1 votesI paid much attention to Garens Rework back then and yeah i remember the discussion about the slow and the reduced damage if not isolated, but i´m also pretty sure i remeber Riot reducing his E ad-scaling a little bit as compensation for giving him back crit. I tried to find the post in which Garen Rework was officiallly discussed in, but i couldn´t manage to find it, so i can´t prove it now though.
Spoofghoul1 votesYes !! That would actually be brilliant
Delebru1 votesWouldn´t call it a useless gimmick, when u were ahead a bit IE was perfect for building up on that lead and killing squishies in seconds. I built it in every third game or so and it always worked quite well.
Romans VI XXIII1 votesTry IE into phantom into shiv. U might be surprised how well you can do.
IcyPepper1 votesJust build a different crit item first?
Critmaster Garen3 votesJust build a different crit item first?
its not about the build order. before the most recent changes, you could get away with building infinity edge as your only single crit item on garen.
the spin normalizes even small critical strike chance.
the entire point is that after the crit itemization changes, you dont have a choice but to build a zeal item if you want to build crit at all.
since garen doesnt auto attack half the time, zeal items arent very cost efficient on him.
IcyPepper1 votesWell, can't argue with that. Thanks for explaining it to me!
Jerry SeinfeId1 votesplay justice garen: 
i shit on most carries with this and because i build more tank items after the deadmans (SG most of the time, even the deadmans isn't core tbh, but preferable) I don't really get bursted either. the new item seems to fit into my build quite nicely too tbh, might try it out, QspinQ.
But if you want a crit build wouldn't going 
// + work? You'd end up with around 60% crit and it would convert a part of your spin to true damage, combined with your ult's true dmg.
GripaAviara1 votesAm I the only one happy here that a tank on steroids like garen can't abuse that item anymore?
And no, don't come with the bullshit that he is a juggernaut. They might wanted him to be one but atm he one of the tankiest champions in game (nr 12 at damage taken but if u remove trynda and healers, you get nr 6 with shit ton of damage and 0 fancy mechanic
JusticePauldrons2 votesIf you look at his base stats you will see this is inherently false, he typically has less armor and magic resist than other top laners (made up for with W) and due to the fact he has no crowd control he is not a tank in any way shape or form. If you are targeting a Garen building full tank you seriously need to reconsider how you play.
Emerald Fang1 votesi still haven´t figured out any adc build with new IE that gives u exactly smooth 100% crit chance.
Good. The new build is supposed to make champions not crit-stack 100% and it's supposed to tone town damage (as well as make crit-bruiser builds worse). Before everything was based on crits and disgusting amounts of damage way too early. Sure you could "technically" get 120% crit chance but then you'll miss out on damage because the only way to get crit chance is to get attack speed.
Meta has shifted away from crit champions now, which is interesting, but it's nice, because instead of melting you with 2 autos, they can melt you with 3.
The Ecdysiast1 votesThe meta hasn't been crit champions for a while now... It's been Guinsoo's hybrid-damage on-hit Varus and Kog'maw for months.
Critmaster Garen3 votesThe meta hasn't been crit champions for a while now... It's been Guinsoo's hybrid-damage on-hit Varus and Kog'maw for months.
oh come on. thats entirely not true.
that "on hit" meta build was essentially just 
with more zeal items, instead of
rush.
"on hit" my ass. almost all marksmen still rushed crit. throwing a rageblade into 3 crit items, because it got buffed, doesnt make it less of a crit build.
ive seen many claims that "on hit is meta right now" before the recent patch, and people didnt build one single other on hit item than rageblade. i didnt see marksmen build 
or even a on op.gg builds. it was all just i.e. and zeals in addition to guinsoos.
The Ecdysiast1 votesThe meta has been on-hit marksman-- those who have their own added magic damage and worked best with Guinsoo's as a result. For a time, they did buy Wit's and Bork third item, you just didn't check when that was the case, apparently.
Critmaster Garen3 votesThe meta has been on-hit marksman-- those who have their own added magic damage and worked best with Guinsoo's as a result. For a time, they did buy Wit's and Bork third item, you just didn't check when that was the case, apparently.
they still stacked the shit out of crit items. op.gg never showed anything else for the top builds either.
maybe that should tell you something.
The Ecdysiast1 votesAll it tells me is that you're talking out of your butt, because it certainly did for a time.