Done playing this game until you restrict certain champion from play supp or limit what items they..

chiilinbreeze·Jan 29, 2017·2 votes·685 views

are able to buy it makes the game even more unbalanced and stupid

15 Comments

MrHaZeYoJan 29, 20174 votes

Kbai

ScissorsNstuffJan 29, 20174 votes

see you tomorrow

Thales225Jan 30, 20171 votes

{quoted}

see you ~~tomorrow~~ never

MatthewRT2Jan 29, 20172 votes

well if the "traditional" supports didn't have shit scaling and weren't so worthless that they cant even clear a wave late game without it taking five minutes maybe people would play them

ChaddyFantomeJan 29, 20171 votes

{quoted}

well if the "traditional" supports didn't have shit scaling and weren't so worthless that they cant even clear a wave late game without it taking five minutes maybe people would play them

"Traditional supports are far stronger mid to late game than the Mage "supps" since their itemization scales with eachother.

With the nerf to redemption, it completely falls off if you don't stack there item 3114 items and Windspeakers mid to lane. At this point, Traditional supports utility far outpaces the general damage of the mage supports.

MatthewRT2Jan 30, 20172 votes

better cc wise yes but the frequency of the cc isn't always as impact full as a single use of hard cc with a lot of damage attached to it. Mage supports are also more oppressive that most of the traditional picks because spell thief's is enough early game to compensate when you just need one spell to get a chunk and the counterpart uses abilities that cost 65-100 mana every cast. redemption now has even more mana regen than ever as soon as it's built you just spam your damage while trying to avoid danger.

ChaddyFantomeJan 30, 20171 votes

{quoted}

better cc wise yes but the frequency of the cc isn't always as impact full as a single use of hard cc with a lot of damage attached to it. Mage supports are also more oppressive that most of the traditional picks because spell thief's is enough early game to compensate when you just need one spell to get a chunk and the counterpart uses abilities that cost 65-100 mana every cast. redemption now has even more mana regen than ever as soon as it's built you just spam your damage while trying to avoid danger.

But The utility, and protection more than counteracts what damage they have. Utility Supports get way more up-time for their spells than Mage supports do and thus more than mitigate their damage.

Brand ulti'd in a Teamfight? item 3190 just absorbed practically the entirety of its damage, since it benefits from Shield scaling from items and Windspeakers. Brand on the other hand blocked maybe 1 auto worth of damage on each person.

In the case of Karma, item 3190 + Mantra E pretty much invalidates his presence entirely, and that isn't even her full rotation.

Mage supports are also far less safe, as they lack the defensive options and utility traditional supports have, and since they are replacing a traditional support, they don't have one to cover for them.

If a Zyra gets caught out, all she has is her Snare to try and protect herself , else she is she is dead. if a Lulu/Karma or Janna get caught, they can Slow, Whimsy, Tornado, Speed boost themselves and even shield themselves for safety.

And Supports are already in inherent danger to dying out alone since as is when goign to ward and such.

In my eyes, saying Mage supports are situationally better than traditional supports mid to late game is silly. Sure you can say, "just make a pick" but that applies to any champ really, and their are more traditional Supports that are actually made to make picks like thresh.

its like building a team with no front line, Sure you can make it work, but it is far from optimal unless you build an early crushing lead.

To me, the prevalence of mage supports is more so in accord with wanting to build crushing leads in an early game meta and little else outside of support just not being popular ofc.

But come laning if said snowball doesn't occur, the traditional support will be far more overall useful in overall net value. They just scale better.

chipndip1Jan 30, 20171 votes

Except Camille saw pro play building Locket/Redemption and winning because anyone can support if they have hard cc because Redemption and Locket makes a support out of ANYONE IN THE GAME.

Can we fucking stop with this? Redemption's overall value didn't even get nerfed. If you build it second, it's still relatively as good as it was when it was a rush item. People are delusional. Hell, if I played picks like Zyra/Brand, I'd actually build Locket after Rylai's. Just because it's that stupid.

ChaddyFantomeJan 30, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Except Camille saw pro play building Locket/Redemption and winning because anyone can support if they have hard cc because Redemption and Locket makes a support out of ANYONE IN THE GAME.

No. Camille saw success doing it because she is an utterly broken champion and merely having her on your team regardless of role will show you success.

Also, she has shielding in her kit so she does benefit from the %Shield/Healing while mage supports and such don't.

You are blaming the gun instead of the person pulling the trigger here.

Redemption's overall value didn't even get nerfed

This is utterly false. Its base values were what got kit and they got utterly devastated.

"Health reduced to 300 from 400. Mana regeneration increased to 125% from 75%.

Active heal reduced to 65 - 490 (based on target's level) from 150 - 490 (based on target's level)."

What I think you fail to realize is Pro play is still on the previous patch. Redemption hasn't received it's nerf for them just yet.

You are being irrational.

chipndip1Jan 30, 20171 votes

Redemption's OVERALL value didn't get nerfed. Its base was nerfed, but the thing scales back into its former strength. If you just use your brain and get it second, rather than first, it'll still be around the same ball park of strength it always was. Also, just because she gets a personal shield doesn't mean it's a supportive shield, so what the hell IS that argument?

Like, if Camille were the exact way she is now, but she couldn't build an aoe heal and shield, do you really think forcing her into supporting would have been wise? No, because what's she going to do? She basically has her broken damage and mobility, and then she can buy Enchanter parts for free. And do you honestly think any other support items compare to these two in value? Do you REALLY?

ChaddyFantomeJan 30, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Redemption's OVERALL value didn't get nerfed. Its base was nerfed, but the thing scales back into its former strength. If you just use your brain and get it second, rather than first, it'll still be around the same ball park of strength it always was.

Excuse me but i have to wonder who is or isn;t usign their brain when games end at 30 minutes and therefor eit will not reach its max potential on a regular basis.

Also, just because she gets a personal shield doesn't mean it's a supportive shield, Who the hell said that it was?

so what the hell IS that argument?

It wasn't an arguement? it was just explaining how the item scales btter on Camille than ti does on say Zyra Malzahar because she actually benefits form the shield bonus.

Like, if Camille were the exact way she is now, but she couldn't build an aoe heal and shield, do you really think forcing her into supporting would have been wise?

Yes.

Camille is picked in the support roll as a kill lane engage support. Redemptions existence doesn't change how she is played or impacts the game, unless you genuinely believe they use her a nothing but a Redemption and locket bot.

Camille's ultimate and thus her ability to compeltey lock someone down is invaluable, and THAT is why she is getting picked. The reason she works support is because she doesn't need a lot of gold to be impactful in the game. Her bases are ridiculous and her kit had potent utility that a simple numbers change can make irrelevant. That is the kind of thing that makes a champ attractive in the support role, not fucking Redemption.

No, because what's she going to do? She basically has her broken damage and mobility, and then she can buy Enchanter parts for free.

You neither no what free is nor do u have a clue as to what you spek of and it shows.

And do you honestly think any other support items compare to these two in value? Do you REALLY?

Making a lot of assumptions and strawmans here, smarty. As it stands your entire argument is fallacious.

chipndip1Jan 30, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Excuse me but i have to wonder who is or isn;t usign their brain when games end at 30 minutes and therefor eit will not reach its max potential on a regular basis.

30 minutes is enough time to get to level 13 or so as a support.

It just takes level 11 to get about 300 healing from the item. Also, it's based on the recipient, not the user, so it doesn't matter about YOUR level. It's the recipients, making this argument even lousier. Your solo laners won't notice a difference in potency by 30 minutes, and your adc probs won't either. Hell, even by 25 minutes most of your solo laners should be well and above level 10.

Who the hell said that it was?

Why point out Camille's shield when it's not a supportive shield? It doesn't do anything for anyone except her, so it proves my point more that the actives of these two items are stupidly designed.

It wasn't an arguement? it was just explaining how the item scales better on Camille than it does on say because she actually benefits from the shield bonus.

I mean...and? Those guys and these items are two different things...and they can STILL buy one or both of these items and be just fine if they wanted to.

Yes.

Camille is picked in the support roll as a kill lane engage support. Redemptions existence doesn't change how she is played or impacts the game, unless you genuinely believe they use her a nothing but a Redemption and locket bot.

After laning that's probs exactly what happens to a diver that builds sub-par defenses and literally 0 AD. That and a stun off of her E and a slow from her W.

Camille's ultimate and thus her ability to completely lock someone down is invaluable.

Yes...when she has kill pressure. Otherwise she doesn't lock anyone anywhere. She locks herself in a shitty fight. After laning phase, anyway. Until then, marksmen are pretty vulnerable.

The reason she works support is because she doesn't need a lot of gold to be impactful in the game.

Then she can just build Locket and Redemption and be a support. If it was more like you were saying, she'd have built her normal build off of a support budget. She didn't. She built an aoe shield and an aoe heal because those two things are never strategically not-valuable.

Making a lot of assumptions and strawmans here, smarty. As it stands your entire argument is fallacious.

What assumptions or strawman? This is a point I've harped on forever and it's the point of the thread. These items are too universally useful and let anyone just tackle supporting because they get a ton of utility they can just buy. You can take any champ in the game, make a kill lane, then build Locket and Redemption. That isn't a "Just because I'm broken" thing to do. ANY champ can do that, easy. And any champ can do that and be successful if you think a little while you do it.