Eventual fate of Elise? @whoever at Riot who is responsible for spiders

Spiders Do Dance··3 votes·773 views

A bit of history to start this off.

It seems that Elise, as a champion, has a peculiar life cycle. After initial release, she was considered really weak, as it is often with difficult to play champions, then given a few buffs that made her a complete monster, then rightly nerfed, then nerfed some more. And then nerfed for straight four or five patches until she finally hit her rock bottom of 42 or 43 percent win rate in soloq. Forgotten, unloved, unplayed. Few, if anyone, mourned.

The tragedy of Elise is that she is in many ways Lee Sin's ugly sister. They both share a lot of traits: junglers with great early damage, famed for being dominant in competetive, with high skill cap, bad lategame, and sometimes taken into lane by hipsters. Both hated by people who do not play her. But while he had all the cool plays, all the damage and all the fan love, the Spider Lady never got any of that. I mean, when was the last time anyone here seen a YT video of amazing Elise play?

She was never as flashy, though probably often just as obnoxious. As a result, she ended up, for around a year, being a champion pretty much without dedicated players, with a very difficult kit that even when played correctly was still ham-strung by the old nerfs. In very short, in a bad spot.

Riot recognized that. Elise was so weak that she needed a buff. Or two. Or three. If my memory serves me right, it was four or five buffs to her, patch after patch. And then suddenly history repeated itself and Elise became a monster once again. And then history repeated itself again, and she got nerfed. And then nerfed again. And now we are about to see yet another nerf, this time to her spiderling base damage. It is likely that the nerfs will continue until Elise sinks one more time, this time her kit with even more holes drilled through it, so that it does not sail again.

So, to get to the point.

What happens to Elise next? Because at this rate, her kit is going to (eventually) get gutted. It is perhaps a bad kit, and it is certainly a problematic one. But is this spider lifecycle a solution? Can, should Elise actually be good? What would make her good? And finally, appealing to players? Because I feel like it is one of the biggest problems she has right now - she is not appealing to play. Her relegation to the role of E bot in late game (further reinforced by the oncoming nerfs to her late-game damage), the fact that her squishy jungle builds are just not optimal, and she is often forced to go full tank, which both does not fit her "fantasy", nor actually feels any good, the artificial issues introduced by the various - again, warranted - nerfs, like the clunkiness of her spider-form E... When weak, she was not in good spot, and when made strong again, she actually found herself in even a worse one.

The tragedy of Elise is that nerfs that she had to recieve for the sake of the game made her a very annoying champion to actually play, and I say it as a hardcore Elise toplane main.

What is Riot's opinion on Elise's eventual fate? Does she have a place in this game, in roughly her current state? Should she get reworked? Or consigned to the pit of unloved champions? Is there actually any plan on how to deal with her? Or will the cycle of Elise continue?

1 Comments

JRobin311 votes

I think that there are a few things to keep in mind here.

  1. RIOT doesn't make game changes purely for game balance. They make changes to shake things up and to force players to adapt. The idea that the first thing RIOT thinks about when buffing or nerfing a champion is game balance is a popular misconception.

  2. RIOT focuses primarily on pro play. If a champion is too popular in pro play, you can expect RIOT to make a change aimed at making it less popular. More recently RIOT has been also trying to make champions we don't see in pro play popular enough to see pro play. Regarding Elise, the nerfs to Elise came as a response to Elise's popularity in pro play. Recent Elise changes were made to help her see pro play again.

  3. RIOT doesn't wait for the player base to adjust to a champion before making more changes. If we don't see a shift in a champion the way RIOT wants it to shift in side of a week or two, RIOT is ready to make more changes to help that shift. But the player base has been shown to take as much as six months to adapt to basic changes.

When you realize these three things, it becomes clear why Elise changes have been problematic. Elise is not a champion the player base adapts to quickly. I asked a Diamond player what he thought of Elise after her changes and he said he was banning her just to not have to deal with it because he didn't really know what the effect of the changes was. So when you have a champion like Elise that the player base has trouble understanding (even at a high level of play), then there are difficulties adjusting her kit to see a desired effect. But let's also be clear here: if RIOT really wanted to make champions balanced, it wouldn't take more than a few months of dedicated effort to do so for all champions in the game, but there is just much more that RIOT is actually doing than balancing champions. RIOT is always creating new changes that deliberately unbalance the game. So I don't think RIOT has an eventual fate in mind for Elise.

Now I've seen the changes this season to Elise called buffs (at the time they were made they were called nerfs). What no one called them (but was a more accurate description) is that the Elise changes did a lot of shifting of power around. There were always trade offs and because Elise was overall weak compared to other champions is meant that to be competitive Elise needed to have more early game power and much less late game power. It would be nice to rewind back to last season and just keep the Elise from before the last major nerf to her. She would've been about right power wise in game. But I don't think RIOT believes in take backs. I think they feel compelled to push forward into something new and different and so I think you are right to be concerned about what direction RIOT will eventually take with Elise. Because Elise is popular in pro play right now (arguably too popular) and that means RIOT probably has an eye to make some sort of change to her.

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