Mordekaiser: I need your Input!

Varnoc··1 votes·1,257 views

What do you love about Mordekaiser, what do you hate about him?

I do kit reworks for champions (independent of Riot) within the game that I feel need some attention. I've set my sights on Mordekaiser recently, but I want to get your opinion!

No opinion is invalid, but please be as detailed as possible! If Riot does ever get around to tweaking him again (come on, Visual/Gameplay Update!) they will be able to use the things we have to say here as a resource.

This is a personal project of mine, so I won't be sharing the final product unless you guys have a strong interest in seeing it, though if you're curious, I've done work on Aatrox and Karthus. Here's what I'm looking for:

  • What abilities make Mordekaiser, Mordekaiser? What do you love or hate about the ones he has right now?
  • What frustrates you when you're playing against Mordekaiser?
  • What frustrates you playing AS Mordekaiser?
  • Are you happy with his role in the game? Should he remain a Juggernaut, or be something else? Unoffical List of Classes to Choose From
  • What lanes should he be effective in? Jungle? Top? Mid? Bottom?

Thanks for taking the time to respond to this! Have a great day!

11 Comments

Malicious Metal3 votes

First off Mordekaiser IS Iron Man. It's his trademark ability and should be the core theme of his character. He's the undying revenant that just refuses to die. It's also his only way to make up for his lack of range, CC and mobility.

His Ultimate's also a very important aspect of his character, together with Iron Man it makes Morde who he is. Stealing the soul of an enemy champion and making them submit to his will is a core aspect of his identity.

As for which skills i DON'T like. There's only one. Harvester of Sorrow is one of the worst abilities design wise. The theme's great though. Morde feasting on his enemies' suffering. It should be something to beef him up like perhaps a resistance steal or something the like.

What I dislike when playing against Morde. Hmm... It has to be him being rather hard to lane against when around minions.

What frustrates me playing Mordekaiser. Being rather squishy for a "Juggernaut" and his w is just so unrewarding as of now.

Juggernaut's his most fitting role. He lacks CC and Mobility but should make up for it with unholy amounts of damage and durability-> Juggernaut

I'd say he should be a solo laner with jungling capabilities

Hope that helps.

A fantastic time1 votes

I think that his Q and W need to be reworked. I made a post about this myself about 20 minutes ago, why don't you check that out?

HaugheyPuck991 votes

I still have mixed feelings about new mord. I've played him bot and had great success a couple times but he just feels awful to play in a solo lane anymore. My main problem with him is his complete lack of gap closers, and how he relies way too much on his teammates or getting a Rylai's for any sort of engage. I also really don't like how his shield passive is kinda hard to see. Like, why did they put it in place of his resource bar instead of just over his health like every other shield in the game? Makes it hard to realize how much damage it'll block half the time. Not to mention how quickly it decays just makes trading in lane pretty dumb. If I go to hit my lane opponent(s) to get my shield up, most of the time they'll either hit me before I got any shield from my abilities (making my shield useless because everything I just got will quickly decay) or I get the shield in time and block their damage from that trade, but now have no way to continue trading without any gap closers.

Sorry if this post seems a bit messy, my thoughts were kinda all over the place.

TehNACHO1 votes

Should be balanced like a Burst champ; really good at killing squishies, shutting off DPS champs from a fight, but not so hot at killing a Tank.

Think an offensively balanced Malphite.

warpenguin5551 votes

i just like his R and his old q was nice as well. do what you want with the rest of it also would you mind looking at my tryndamere rework?

Varnoc1 votes

I wouldn't mind taking a look at it. Thanks for the feedback.

warpenguin5551 votes

{quoted}

I wouldn't mind taking a look at it. Thanks for the feedback. REWORKED Passive- Battle Fury: Tryndamere gains 5 Fury each time he lands a basic attack, increased to 10 Fury each time he kills an enemy. After not dealing receiving damage for 8 seconds, Tryndamere loses 5 Fury per second. NEW EFFECT: Undying Rage: Tryndamere becomes immune to death for 2/5/8 seconds, during which his health cannot fall below 1. The cooldown of this ability is also reset on death. (NEW: VFX will appear to let people playing him know when the effect is active similar to the VFK Gnar gets when he is close to transforming.) Cooldown: 150/120/90 (levels 1/11/16)

Q- Bloodlust- Cooldown: 14/13/12/11/10 seconds Passive: Tryndamere thirsts for blood, gaining 5/10/15/20/25 Attack Damage plus 0.15/0.2/0.25/0.3/0.35 per 1% Health missing. NEW Active: Tryndamere gains 16/20/24/28/32% bonus lifesteal for the next 5 seconds. Each auto attack during the duration also consumes 5% of his current fury and heals him for a bonus % equal to the amount of fury consumed.

W- Mocking Shout- Cooldown: 12 at all ranks Tryndamere lets out an insulting cry, decreasing surrounding champions Armor. Enemies with their backs turned to Tryndamere also have their Movement Speed reduced. Basic attacks against champions effected by Mocking Shout grant bonus fury

Decreases surrounding champions' Armor by 10/15/20/25/30 for 4 seconds, and enemies with their backs turned also have their Movement Speed reduced by 35/42.5/50/57.5/65%. Auto attacks against champions effected by Mocking Shout grant double the amount of fury.

E- Spinning Slash- Cooldown: 14 at all ranks Tryndamere spins through his enemies, dealing 70/100/130/160/190 (+120% bonus Attack Damage) (+100% Ability Power) physical damage to enemies in his path and generating 3 Fury. Spinning Slash's cooldown is reduced by 1 second for each unit hit by Spinning Slash. Auto attacks also reduce the cooldown of this ability by 1 second.

NEW R- Frenzied Rage: Cooldown: 135/115/95 Tryndamere gives in to his rage. For the next 10 seconds, Tryndameres fury is uncapped, dealing bonus physical damage to champions, minions, and monsters equal to his amount of fury for the duration, and if Tryndamere has exceeded 100 fury, his fury is dropped down to 100 and Tryndamere is healed for the excess amount.

tl;dr Change Log Passive- bonus crit chance removed. New effect, Undying rage, works almost identically to old ult. Q- Passive unchanged. Active heal removed. New active grants lifesteal at the cost of fury per auto attack W- AD Reducion removed, now reduces armor. Grants bonus Fury on those effected E- Cooldown no longer shortened on crit. Now is reduced for each enemy hit by the ability R- New Ability

Varnoc1 votes

Tryndamere's a tricky one because he was designed by one of the game's founders. Any changes that ultimately go through will likely need to pass through him first. If you keep what's core to Tryndamere, I doubt he'll mind too much :P.

That being said, at his core, Tryndamere is:

  • Hits harder as he gets angrier
  • Makes fun of his enemies for running away, weakening them in some way
  • Can get so mad that he literally cannot die.

If you're going to mess around with his kit, be sure that you keep these things at it's core (you have so far, but keep it in mind). Do your best, when working on exsisting champions, to change as little as possible. People like certain, wierd things about specific champions, and will come out of the woodwork to decry you and your ideas for the stupidest most valid of reasons.

**P **- Gotta be careful here, removing the Critical Strike chance that the Fury provided may be well intentioned (nobody likes the level 1/2 cheese), but by doing that you remove his synergy with Critical Strike altogether. Moreover, why should he care about his Fury now? It's just kinda there, not doing much. Sure, it's used to fuel Q, but that's it, no other interesting interactions. I'd have the Fury provide something it doesn't have to be crit, but it needs to increase the damage he deals. Remember, the madder he gets, the more damage he does, he's like the Hulk.

As for the Undying Rage being moved here, it's really dangerous. It basically becomes a better version of a revival passive in a way, as you have no downtime where people can get ready to kill you again. Also, the scaling on it is weird, it upgrades at levels 1/11/16, 5 seconds is plenty of time at most stages of the game, excluding the extremely late if you're not very good at positioning, so I'd remove the scaling and make it static if you're going to keep it here.

Q - The passive is fine, though I question why it's still there at all (not your choice, Riot's), if anything, this should be on his passive in my opinion, but I digress. The active is more interesting than what we have now, I feel like the healing should be based mostly on how much Fury is consumed, which would require a larger pool of fury to work well. Most of the issues with this ability stem from the fact that Fury as a resource system is rather limited

W - The slow remains unchanged, though your choice of reduction seems odd. Tryndamere would only destroy softer targets faster with this effect, and help his allies to do so as well. Adding flat armor pen (and losing the ability to make your opponents hit like wet noodles) won't help you against tanks, who will be your main opposition later in the game, where this ability will finally be maxed. If you were to stick with the armor reduction, make it percentage based to help him with tanks more than squishies.

E - Reasonable since Crit was removed, not much to say

R - An interesting effect. It's fitting of the character in a way, but actually feels like it would be better on Bloodlust than anything else in a way. I'm kinda torn, I do like the ability, though the window to use it is a bit too large.

Overall interesting ideas, I hope I helped you in some way.

Kosomic1 votes

I have thought of a rework for a while based on his current status. For starters his role needs to be top and mid with the possibility of jungle. The bot lane idea was an interesting concept but it flat out didn't work as Riot made him too reliant on his support to have any damage. Note that he most certainly had a boat load of damage but he had very poor chances of executing it on his own where the enemy marksman was free to harass with out this tethered reliance.

  • To summarize that point Morde had always had the ability to output on his own. This solo destruction I feel needs to come back in any rework.

Morde used to have complete synergy with his passive and it has practically been removed. My reasoning is that the rework gave him much lower damage to shield conversions with a lower shield decay and a threshold where the shield would stop decaying. The problem with this is that you lack the damage early game to build your shield to a sufficient level where the last two changes to the passive will have any value. Late game its better if you can survive to that point that is, as Morde was all about the long fights by absorbing a good portion of damage before using his and with the current shield conversions, he can't out last very many people in lane.

  • So shield conversion up back to old Morde standards and decay rate and threshold removed, his old passive was fine, leave it alone.

Now for the big part, I would do the following things :

  • complete rework of the Q
  • rework on the W but with the same concept
  • slight increase of damage on the E
  • Ult remains the same with some changes to the dragon

First part, the Q. There was way to much damage moved from the rest of his kit to this one ability. I feel this was a cancerous ability to both the player and the enemy as all we have to do is flash with a 3rd Q charge for an absurd amount of damage and the enemy would have very little room for counter play. As playing with this ability, if you actually get to land this ability when you don't feel flash then the enemy was probably cc'd to hell or afk to actually allow you to get this damage off. In either case it doesn't feel like you out skilled an opponent rather than they just gave you a kill. Either feeling is unhealthy for the player experience so here is the solution i propose.

Make the Q a three part active doing the following :

1st activation : Morde swings his mace from left to right, hitting all enemies in a small semicircle in front of him. He deals full damage to the first enemy hit while all other targets hit take 20% reduced damage with a bare minimum of 40% of the total damage. This would deal x2.

2nd activation : same as the first but swinging from right to left. This will deal x3.

3rd activation : Morde swings his mace overhead, gaining a small amount of FLAT movement speed from the momentum. The mace crashes down dealing damage in circular location in front of Morde. If an enemy champion is hit in the DIRECT center of the area they take double damage. This would do x5 with the possibility of x10.

Alright now for explanation time.

Mordes current Q does x3,x3,x6 currently and this would do x2,x3,x5 normally with the small possibility of x10 (note that Mordes 3rd Q hit used to do a guaranteed x9) So how does this put him in a better spot? Here are my thoughts.

  • Each active has a wind up time similar to a Darius Q giving plenty of time to react.
  • It now gives us the AOE we desperately needed from the old Q
  • It grants us more shield because we hit multiple targets
  • It is castable while moving like Darius
  • It has COUNTER PLAY. You can see which way Morde is going to swing so can step to the side to allow minions to take full damage while you take the reduced. On the third Q you just have to avoid being in the dead center to take the base damage. This isn't hard as the center point for the x10 is very small.
  • Rewards skilled Morde players that are able to get the x10 damage off and if the catch the enemy alone getting the full damage off from the first two Q strikes.

What makes this different from Riven ? It would be the complete opposite of Riven as her combo is based on mobility while all yours would have a wind up time. The only part that makes you slightly more mobile is the 3rd has your swinging a mace overhead. That kind of momentum should give some small amount of movement speed during the animation.

Second part the W, I'll try and make this quick

  • remove the exp gain. It is a flat out unhealthy concept for this game
  • make it castable on minions again
  • still causes the magnet movement speed
  • If cast on self, Morde does light damage over time to nearby enemies and gets MR and Armour. (basically bring back the old W but lower its damage)
  • if cast on an ally both Morde and the ally do light damage over time (no defense buffs) if the areas overlap, both fields converge into one massive filed enveloping them both. This does much more damage to enemies in the area. If an enemy champion is in the area, then a portion of the damage they take each second is converted to health for both Morde and his ally.
  • if cast on self Morde gains the heal effect only from damaging monsters.
  • at the end of the duration or on activation, the fields disperse. Morde will gain a bonus amount of shield based on how much damage enemies took during this time.
  • the massive field does more damage if it was an ally champion that was selected instead of a minion.

This is what would make jungle Morde still possible which is a strange concept as it was never his intended role but I would be sad to see it go. It is basically a more advanced version of his current W that removes the weird flat heal on activation with a heal during the effect and gives him a nice bit of shield gain for however much damage it did. Not much more to say.

Third part the E, are you ready for this?

  • Increase its base amount of damage to be a bit less than old Mordes E to compensate with the Ad ratio

It was his bread and butter skill and should remain so. Any questions? No? Alright moving on.

Final part his ult, this was something interesting

Keep the damage at a 50/50 rate. Nothing wrong with the ult it self. Its that damn dragon we have to worry about. I feel that it is a cool concept but way too crazy at the moment. An early dragon is basically a free turret with very little the enemy team can do about it. So first we have to get the nerfs out of the way before I get into the crazy stuff.

  • Its damage scales based on Mordes level. NOT after the points put into the ult. (This is because currently you get a bit of a power spike with the second point in your ult while your dragon gets a huge damage boost as that is how they currently have it going)
  • It takes double damage from turrets
  • dragon does half damage to all structures. (Okay these two parts are to make the free siege potential be reduced while still offering the ability to take down turrets or get some good turret damage off as minions tank.

Now that the real concerns are dealt with its time for the crazy stuff.

Dragon now gives the enemy team up to five buffs based on how many dragons your team has secured.

What if the ghost dragon benefited from these as well.

Before you go screaming OP here me out.

When you get you first dragon not much happens your dragon gets a damage boost that won't be to noticeable with the half damage to turrets. Then you get your second dragon that gives you more damage to minions and monsters. Now your dragons attacks are a bit wider and clear enemy minions faster. Third dragon comes and now your dragons movement speed is much faster, making positioning of it easier. At fourth dragon you get bonus damage to turrets. With this the damage reduction is removed from your dragon (it does still take double damage from them though) At final dragon your dragons attacks apply the burn over time with its attacks.

It was just a though. An unnecessary thought but it would be cool.

Anyways these are my ideas for Morde, make of them what you will

Sincerely,

EndingWingz

KnightOfEloHell1 votes

What makes Mord Mord: -damage done from abilities generates shield -must have no cc, be slow, and deal massive damage because of it.

What I don't like playing against another Mord:

  • waaayyyyyy to easy to kill. Everyone wants to go tank, but this means he has very bad AS and AP. Since Mord has incredibily awful base health, I always win AGAINST Mordekaiser, even AS Mord(I build mixed damage, CDR, and AS on him). Also, since others try to build tank instead of AP, they have terrible heals.

What I like playing as Mord:

  • Shield from abilities -AS+CDR+mixed damage=always shield never die -dragon ghost -champion ghosts -Powerful Q that AS makes OP. -heals from w and ult -he is ccless but does epic damage

What I DONT like playing as Mord: -awful base health -sometimes too slow, but its ok. Having heal and ghost whilst build AS and AP fixes these two problems.

Mordekaiser is so close to being strong right now, even in a solo lane, or at least how I play him. The buffs on the pbe should help.

Mord should get a VU for sure tho, possibly a new skin to fit his new lore.

Update Dragon Knight Add to Lord Mord to make worth the cost UNBOUND OR SOULSTEALER MORDEKAISER SKIN NEEDED

DeathBurst1 votes
  • I am not deeply attached to any single ability. For basic skills, I think the balance of 1 single-target and 2 AoE is good. I feel the ultimate is one of the major reason Morde is so hard to balance, so I won't be too disappointed if it is completely changed.

  • The shield is the most frustrating part when playing against Morde. If he manages to get slightly ahead, he can then just count on this shield to win every trades. I'm just repeating things that have been said already, but this shield in its current state means that he can get by by building just offense, and the shield will tank, so adding a windows of vulnerability in the shield, even when ahead, would probably be a good idea. Maybe tied to the W? It could also help differentiate W and E, with E being more for offense, and W for defense?

  • I'm not too frustrated when playing as Morde. I quite like the champ in bot lane in its current state, it's an original match-up, but it's a pleasant change from the meta once in a while. I dislike having my W amputated by half when playing solo lane, but this will be modified next patch apparently, so... great :)

  • I'm happy with his role in the game. I disagree with the other commenter saying he should be a burst champ. I like this feeling of towering, hulking suit of plate armor slowly advancing and destroying everything that is stupid enough to stay in his path. He should remain a Juggernaut. (Also, your post about Classes was very interesting. I commented on it, and it made me think about how to categorize and group champions myself.)

  • I like Morde being viable botlane, pleasant change and all that, as I said above. I can see him being a power-farming jungler à la Shyvana with mediocre ganks but good clean thanks to AoE, and good late game scaling if left alone. If he could be also viable solo lane, that would be great, but I think the primary focus should be on botlane. He is the quintessential Juggernaut, slow and unrelenting, so he should need his team-mates/his support to not be kited/CC'ed to death.

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