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IE is counter intuitive as it is now

Busty Demoness··4 votes·1,044 views

Assuming you have no other items, combining 2 BF Swords for 1000 gold gets you... an open item slot.

The two passives on IE have zero value until you invest at least 600 gold into critical strike (Brawler's Glove is the cheapest critical item there is). Granted, some champions can bypass this 600g investment with guaranteed critical strikes. At the core, though, IE is poorly designed and now suffers the same problem Essence Reaver had prior to its rework.

So here's what I've come up with:

Infinity Edge Recipe: item 1038 + item 1038 + item 1051 + 300g (3500 total)

+80 AD +10% Critical Strike Chance

Unique Passive: Critical Strike chance is multiplied by 1.5 (increased by 50%). Unique Passive: Critical Strikes deal 15% of their total damage as True Damage.

With this change, Infinity Edge remains weaker on its own without a second critical item to increase the use of its passive effects. IE + Zeal upgrade still comes out to 60% critical Strike chance. And, it helps enable double zeal upgrade builds (which would total out to 105%).

Thoughts?

21 Comments

420 grams3 votes

It's not meant to be a first item.

Busty Demoness2 votes

Name one other item upgrade that has no effect without another item.

FOR JUSTICE3 votes

item 3089 item 3083 or any magic pen item, because you don't have enough AP to make decent use of them.

ModWulf Helhammer4 votes

The bonus 40% AP works on the AP provided from the item.

Busty Demoness1 votes

Rabadons multiplies its own AP. Warmog's, with the right runes and game state, doesn't need another item.

420 grams3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Busty Demoness,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=mgbN7NMX,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2018-06-20T04:53:32.075+0000)

Name one other item upgrade that has no effect without another item.

Warmogs you have to stack hp to get the passive

Broken stopwatch just sits in your inventory.

Stone plate should have hp items built first.

Deathcap should have other ap items.

Tear you have to upgrade.

Ardent censor you have to find a way for heals.

There's items you have to stack like rod or tear or cull.

Just because it's unique doesn't mean it needs changed. It's also not "counter intuitive" because common sense would tell you to buy this item to increase your critical strike effectiveness, which you would need to get first.

FOR JUSTICE4 votes

no no, I took it the wrong way as well, he means absolutely useless other then stats, not "not viable rush item"

I.E grants 80 AD, doubles your crit chance, and 15% of crit damage is true damage. if you build it first, 0 doubled is still 0, so youre not critting at all, so you cant use its true damage. you essentially spend 3700 for 80 AD until you build something else.

420 grams2 votes

{quoted}

no no, I took it the wrong way as well, he means absolutely useless other then stats, not "not viable rush item"

I.E grants 80 AD, doubles your crit chance, and 15% of crit damage is true damage. if you build it first, 0 doubled is still 0, so youre not critting at all, so you cant use its true damage. you essentially spend 3700 for 80 AD until you build something else.

That doesn't make it counter intuitive though. Counter intuitive would be like it enhances your critical stikes but halfs your critical strike chance. Intuition tells you enhancing your critical strikes would be good for an auto attacker, but it's actually bad for one since it lowers your critical stike.

Busty Demoness1 votes

I specified "upgrade" to avoid conflicts with items like Broken Stopwatch and basic items with no passive effects (like BF Sword).

Also, Warmog's, under the right circumstances, will not need another HP item.

The other passive effects, while weaker, will not be ZERO as they are on IE without a second item.

Lastly, ESSENCE REAVER WAS REWORKED FOR THE SAME REASON.

So, yes, it needs changed because otherwise it's hypocritical to keep IE as is.

420 grams2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Busty Demoness,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=mgbN7NMX,comment-id=0000000000010001,timestamp=2018-06-20T05:40:32.198+0000)

I specified "upgrade" to avoid conflicts with items like Broken Stopwatch and basic items with no passive effects (like BF Sword).

Also, Warmog's, under the right circumstances, will not need another HP item.

The other passive effects, while weaker, will not be ZERO as they are on IE without a second item.

Lastly, ESSENCE REAVER WAS REWORKED FOR THE SAME REASON.

So, yes, it needs changed because otherwise it's hypocritical to keep IE as is.

Only a handful of champions have above 2200 max hp above level 18. Some champs, like talon and tryndamere and pantheon and I think Jhin, have crit in there kit already. So under these circumstances they do not need another crit item.

Essence reaver was reworked because of all the other crit item chances (including a new ad item) and essence reaver was almost always the worst to buy.

It really doesn't need to be changed because it fullfills it's niche of enhancing critical strikes. There's no reason to buy this item for any other reason

Busty Demoness1 votes

Overgrowth rune can make up the difference for some champions over time. Sion, with enough CS, can also do it without another HP item.

And while some champions have situations where they can guarantee a critical strike, it doesn't change the fact that there is still a completely useless passive. The ONLY champion that can make use of both passives without another item is Tryndamere.

Finally, Riot specifically stated that ER felt like a terrible first buy because of its reliance on other items. Then they put IE in that same situation, but worse.

It doesn't need to be changed out of its niche, it needs to be changed out of its state where (on its own) it contains 2 useless passives for 95% of the roster, and 1 useless passive for 99% of the roster (seriously, it's 99.2% for the second one).

420 grams1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Busty Demoness,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=mgbN7NMX,comment-id=000000000001000100000000,timestamp=2018-06-20T11:09:59.026+0000)

Overgrowth rune can make up the difference for some champions over time. Sion, with enough CS, can also do it without another HP item.

And while some champions have situations where they can guarantee a critical strike, it doesn't change the fact that there is still a completely useless passive. The ONLY champion that can make use of both passives without another item is Tryndamere.

Finally, Riot specifically stated that ER felt like a terrible first buy because of its reliance on other items. Then they put IE in that same situation, but worse.

It doesn't need to be changed out of its niche, it needs to be changed out of its state where (on its own) it contains 2 useless passives for 95% of the roster, and 1 useless passive for 99% of the roster (seriously, it's 99.2% for the second one).

Exactly, they need a second source to make it work. Like how ie needs another source of crit to work.

It's not a completely useless passive since literally EVERY champion, 100% of the roster, can buy crit. Every single champion in the game can make use out of both passives by simply buying crit.

Don't get me wrong, no one is arguing that's it's a gold efficient item and genius idea to buy it alone. But intuition should tell you to buy the item when you want to enhance your critical strikes. I really don't understand how it could be possibly counter intuitive to buy the item.

I also really don't understand what the proposed rework would accomplish other than a tryndamere buff (he gets to start at 15% crit instead 0 with no fury for only a sacrifice of dropping from 70% to 67.5% at max). Sure the item would technically work on its own, but you still wouldn't buy it. Youd have less than a 1:6.5 chance of using that passive when you auto. You'd either buy stormrazor for the guarrenteed burst/ more stats or you'd get BT/DD for stats that help in all ins. Adding such extreme rng for a minimal reward actually seems counter intuitive.

Busty Demoness1 votes

Holy shit, I can't believe you twisted the information to where you're flat out wrong and missing the entire point.

Here's the kind of changes you're justifying with your argument:

  • All upgrades to Long Sword, Pickaxe and BF Sword have their passive and active effects disabled without +200 bonus AD.
  • All upgrades to Amplifying Tome, Blasting Wand and Needlessly Large Rod do not gain their passive or active effects without a minimum of 200 AP.
  • All upgrades to Cloth Armor require 150 bonus armor to enable non-stat effects.
  • All upgrades to Null Magic Mantle require 150 bonus resist to enable non-stat effects.
  • All upgrades to Dagger require a total of 75% bonus attack speed to gain non-stat effects.
  • Boot Upgrades require another gold purchase of 300 to activate any added stats.

Any champion can buy any item, so these above changes are perfectly fine and won't make any of the upgraded items useless on their own.

Do you now see the fallacy in your argument? If not, I'll explain it now.

Essence Reaver was reworked because one of its passives was useless without a second item. Riot then reworked IE into having two passives that, for over 90% of the roster, were completely disabled without another 600g spent. This is bad design, period. Warmog's shares this problem too but unlike IE you don't need to invest gold.

Would you buy a computer that required you to pay an extra $100 just to remove the bloatware taking up 90% of your hard drive and would be completely inoperable if you removed it yourself?

Willow Uvgood1 votes

Jhin can use it. It works without another item. Also champs with ap "crits" can use it (Evelynn, Ryze, Anivia…).

FOR JUSTICE1 votes

they can but these are champion specific cases and wont really apply to most of the roster, hes talking in reference to items interacting with other items, because by the same effect a rabadons second item is actually perfectly fine on veigar.

he is correct, you literally cant buy I.E first because its absolutely useless without another item. (other then its 80 AD)

Willow Uvgood1 votes

I know, I was just being a smart @**.

Bears Dont Care1 votes

Not rrally. I is the rabadons for Ad critical damage. It is fine as is

Busty Demoness1 votes

Except Rabadon's Passive effect isn't Zero without another item (it still boosts the AP it gives).

IE, as it is, has 2 passive effects that do absolutely nothing without another item. The only exceptions are Tryndamere, whose kit can generate critical chance, and a handful of champions with a means to guarantee criticals.

ModWulf Helhammer1 votes

If that was the case, then IE would have some way to benefit from it's passives, even if small, on purchase. Just like Rabadon's

saltran1 votes

AP's don't need Deathcap to come online.

Bears Dont Care1 votes

{quoted}

AP's don't need Deathcap to come online.

Irrelevant, the argument was the item in itself was not effective without another item. Rabadon is an item that relies upon other items to be more effective. You can't just go Rabadon's and call it a day. It needs other items to be more effective. Let alone few AP users build rabadon because they are better off building something like void staff. OnlyEvelynn really wants it and that is because she has high AP ratios but poor base damage.

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