support items rework extremely incompetent

RikudouSennin007·Jan 25, 2018·5 votes·805 views

well since riot is all about "ooh don't say bad words because our fan base is thin skinned children". imma say it like this. hey, assholes. you ruined support items. you are garbage at your job, i don't wish getting fired upon you(again, thin skin on your part) but your "rework" ,which was basically renaming an old useless item and making it more useless and removing the actually useful things about support items, makes you look extreemely incompetent. again, i don't wish you getting fired like on last post. but you people suck at your jobs. period. so either buff the new garbage, or return the alternative to at least show that you can learn from stupid mistakes

23 Comments

BangtailJan 25, 20184 votes

It's actually a nice change. item 3097 , item 3098 , and item 3096 give you an early 3 wards. This is extremely nice since the fully upgraded items aren't really gold efficient (this means you can rush item 3107 after you buy , , and , because you still get warding). I main support and all I can say is for you to just play around this thing. It's not as bad as you might think. And being salty just makes people not really respect your position on the matter.

OleandervineJan 25, 20184 votes

While I disagree with the OP's delivery, I can agree with his sentiment.

The support items actually don't give you early wards. I was at a point, about 7 minutes into a game, where my ADC had landed first blood and an additional kill, and I had gold. I had over 800 gold, but I couldn't buy vision because of this idiotic change to the support items. "Early vision" is a farce when you have circumstances that exist like this where you are locked out of vision because your item hasn't had enough time to charge up.

Furthermore, rushing Redemption or any other item PALES in comparison to Sightstone and tier 3 support items. item 3312 item 3309 item 3306 were strong power items for supports, as were their quests. The direct removal of these items and the quests that made them superior is a HUGE hamstring to support players, especially since Riot didn't put substitutions in the game at the same time they decided to remove them. Support tanks are left with item 3109 and item 3107 as some of their only HP items, whereas before they had item 3309 and Ruby Sigthstone, which supplemented and bulked them up so that they would survive when taking core tank support items like item 3190 , item 3025 , and item 3050 . Without that HP, they have to resort to purchasing other tank items, which are often too expensive for them to efficiently put together when they need them. These rollouts of the new "Sightstone quests" were utterly ridiculous and a thinly veiled attempt to spin doctor them nerfing support items so that other roles wouldn't use them. Furthermore, there's absolutely no incentive WHATSOEVER to upgrade your support items, because they don't offer you stats or passives that are any more desirable than other items you could purchase. You get an additional ward. Woo hoo. Whereas before, you got kickass active abilities that made you consider if you wanted to consume the item slots of your Sightstone to merge it, or keep it and benefit from the extra item CDR and the awesome active. This entire rollout and reasoning for this change was a disaster - it unnecessarily nerfed supports when there could have been other ways to grant us a free Sightstone. I hate it, and I feel like supporting in a lot more boring now without a fun quest to drive it along and give you great benefits.

RikudouSennin007Jan 25, 20182 votes

basically what i kinda wanted to say except in a calm manner. thank you

BangtailJan 25, 20182 votes

{quoted}

Furthermore, rushing Redemption or any other item PALES in comparison to Sightstone and tier 3 support items.

I'm sorry, but I have to disagree with you on that, if a Redemption denies the enemy a 300 gold kill, that is so much better than 2 gold per 10 seconds on Talisman. If it helps get your teammate a 300 gold kill, that is even better, all this on a sem-short cooldown with Ingenious Hunter makes this an insanely good teamfighting tool.

OleandervineJan 25, 20181 votes

You act as if Talisman, or FQC or FOTM didn't have active AND passives that were well worth the investment. Sure, Redemption does what you say. So does speeding up and ally with Talisman active so you can, guess what, deny an enemy a kill or speed them into a weak enemy fleeing. Furthermore, those allies running towards you were sped up as well, also preventing death by keeping them ahead of enemies. So I'm sorry, the pendulum swings both ways. Both items you compare have their own way of stopping death and helping secure kills.

BangtailJan 25, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Furthermore, there's absolutely no incentive WHATSOEVER to upgrade your support items, because they don't offer you stats or passives that are any more desirable than other items you could purchase. You get an additional ward. Woo hoo. Whereas before, you got kickass active abilities that made you consider if you wanted to consume the item slots of your Sightstone to merge it, or keep it and benefit from the extra item CDR and the awesome active. This entire rollout and reasoning for this change was a disaster - it unnecessarily nerfed supports when there could have been other ways to grant us a free Sightstone. I hate it, and I feel like supporting in a lot more boring now without a fun quest to drive it along and give you great benefits.

I thought like this too, I never upgraded item 3096 , because the quest reward before the 8.2 patch was the same as Eye of the Oasis (it still is, but I'm talking gold wise), so there never was an incentive to upgrade, except in the case of Face of the Mountain because it allowed more stacks and faster stack regeneration of Spoils of War. I will admit it is unfortunate that we lost some items, but I don't think it is something we should revert, so 2 people on the same team (a chase comp would extremely benefit from this) take Frost Queen's, and just destroy everybody. At the end of the game, if you get to full build, you can now sell that item 3096 for a better item. I personally enjoy selling my for a item 3083 at the end game on Soraka.

OleandervineJan 25, 20181 votes

Talisman of Ascension is a team wide speed boost. How do you not see the value in an item active that is Sivir's ultimate?

BangtailJan 25, 20181 votes

Calling the Active on Talisman "Sivir's Ultimate" is a bit reckless, since Sivir increases movement speed by 40/50/60% for 8 seconds, instead of the 40% for 3 seconds. However, the Talisman is not gold efficient, the item becomes gold efficient in about 13 gold coins picked up, which is roughly 6 waves of minions. Since each minion wave takes about 30 seconds, that is about 3 minutes. I don't deny it's alright, but item 3083 is something I only suggest on Soraka, since her heal takes 10 percent of her max HP, and Warmog's is 640% gold efficient without it's passive. I really think that going for item 3107 before you build into your third tier gold item is extremely useful, or, if you don't prefer , you could go item 3190 . However, it has been changed, and with playtesters that have given the people at Riot the "best" way to "nerf" Supports (I don't think they intended to nerf the support role, just other lanes that were abusing item 3309 , item 3306 , and item 3312 ), I don't think Riot will change it back.

RikudouSennin007Jan 25, 20181 votes

you don't you still need to charge the damm thing which takes roughly 10 minutes

BangtailJan 25, 20181 votes

{quoted}

you don't you still need to charge the damm thing which takes roughly 10 minutes

It's a bit difficult to understand what you are talking about here, but if you are talking about Nomad's Medallion, now you don't have to spend money on your upgraded items to get Sightstone or your Eye of the Watcher/Equinox/Oasis and can still rush Redemption pretty early. On tank supports though, I recommend Stoneplate/Locket, it's a nice combo. I got kind of rushed at the end of this I might come back to this comment.

RikudouSennin007Jan 25, 20181 votes

i am talking about all 3 items. and no, i don't buy redemption. i know that is a good item, but i build full tank on my supports after 2 supp items

BangtailJan 25, 20181 votes

I buy Redemption on all my support builds, but that is a discussion for another time. But you save that 800 gold for another item, like a Cloth Armor and Null-Magic Mantle, so you can build into that Locket. It saves you money, the timing seems about the same, I'll admit, even a bit later in some cases, but it still saves you money you can spend on other items. Unfortunately, the actives on item 3312 , item 3306 , and item 3309 are lost, along with the passive on Ruby Sightstone, but like I said, we just have to live with it. Insulting people for "being bad at their jobs" is entirely unprofessional, and you have to approach these things with tact if you want a change to be made, but don't expect much because they have a testing team.

HalcyonDwellerJan 25, 20182 votes

{quoted}

well since riot is all about "ooh don't say bad words because our fan base is thin skinned children".

Cuss words are perfectly accepted and allowed. Insults on the other hand are not. Here: Piss shit fuck - not directed at anyone, these terms are fine.

imma say it like this. hey, assholes. you ruined support items. you are garbage at your job,

Really missing the point of not insulting people today, aren't we?

i don't wish getting fired upon you(again, thin skin on your part)

Then why bring the subject up at all? This was the most passive aggressive "you should be fired" that I have ever seen.

but your "rework" ,which was basically renaming an old useless item and making it more useless and removing the actually useful things about support items,

This was the only actual content in your post related to your actual concern about the game. Next time you post something this portion should be a higher % of the text you put on the page.

makes you look extreemely incompetent. again, i don't wish you getting fired like on last post. but you people suck at your jobs. period

If you're making a post with the sole intent of insulting people then don't make it. How you try to veil it doesn't matter, especially when you (probably intentionally) do such a bad job of hiding it. Next time you post this should be a much lower % of the text you put on the page.

RikudouSennin007Jan 25, 20181 votes

yes because in this post i am complaining that they did their job poorly. i hate long explanations so i summed up my point in one sentence. also, yeah i am passive aggressive because i am pissed at them fucking over many supports. also they whole "fired" thing is because my previous post which said that got deleted

HalcyonDwellerJan 25, 20182 votes

Passive aggressively saying they should lose their jobs is still the same thing as saying they should lose their jobs. You're ignoring the spirit of the rule and trying to find ways around the letter of it.

If you have a point that can be summed up in one sentence, then make that the only sentence in your post. All of the excess stuff isn't necessary, and it certainly won't help you get your concern read. They are not going to see this post, or if they do they are not going to care, because you were an ass about it.

RikudouSennin007Jan 25, 20181 votes

what my post is is saying "hey, you did a really bad job, you suck at what you do" and then telling why they fucked up summing it up in a sentence so that people understand. and i also added a little extra to make my message look less bad. i honestly think what they did was absolute garbage, and if that's what they call "balancing" then they really suck at their jobs. it's like assigning an engineer to monitor a nuclear reactor and then he ends up damaging the damn thing. pretty much same happen here. what my point is is that they should step up their works and fix this huge hole they left in supports

HalcyonDwellerJan 25, 20181 votes

{quoted}

what my post is is saying "hey, you did a really bad job, you suck at what you do" and then telling why they fucked up summing it up in a sentence so that people understand. and i also added a little extra to make my message look less bad. i honestly think what they did was absolute garbage, and if that's what they call "balancing" then they really suck at their jobs. it's like assigning an engineer to monitor a nuclear reactor and then he ends up damaging the damn thing. pretty much same happen here.

Ok then, but keep in mind that for feedback to have the highest chance of being read and taken under consideration, it has to appear to be feedback. telling people they suck and that they are bad for 95% of your post and then giving acutally useful feedback in only 5% of it is not going to get read or noticed.

what my point is is that they should step up their works and fix this huge hole they left in supports

It seems that they are already planning to do so. See here:

{quoted}

Yes, we'll be testing it out as part of the upcoming AP item pass. Not guaranteed it will be a part of that, but if not we will try to bring it back somewhere else. We'll also be looking for a way to bring back Talisman/Reverie.

We will be monitoring tank supports to see if they need a way to defend an indivudual ally in addition to Knight's Vow.

BzTAK178Jan 26, 20182 votes

I was going to make a discussion on this issue, but it looks like someone else already has done so, so I will add my thoughts here. Just like OLEANDERVINE said, while I dislike the way RikudouSennin007 delivered it, I agree with his idea. These support item changes are truly bogus, in my opinion. If the changes aren't bogus, at least the reason Riot gave is. This is what they said in Patch 8.2 notes:

"Supports spend a ton of gold—and slot space—on two items that exist largely for their role. We're merging those items together to give supports more autonomy in their itemization."

To me, this doesn't make any logical sense. Before this patch, majority of support players got a gold item and Sightstone as their primary items. While we have 6 item slots, we didn't run out of item slots until later. By the time we needed to create an extra slot for more items, we had plenty of gold to combine into Eye of the ___ items, which takes 1 slot. With the new change they implemented, we still have to allocate 1 slot for a support/gold item. I don't see any improvement. I see that it is cheaper, but then all Riot needed to do was the price adjustments, not to get rid of existing items. Especially, they do not state any problems on Frost Queen's Claim, Face of the Mountain and Tailsman of Ascension, these items got eliminated due to... what reason? I loved these items together with Ruby Sightstone, so I am just not happy that Riot got rid of them for some illogical reasons. A few seasons ago, they introduced these items to make the support role more interesting and unique depending on which support item we grab. That is because their upgraded items gave great actives. With this new change, I must say that they made the support role more dull and less unique, just like going back to Season 4 or 5.

In addition, as OLEANDERVINE stated, the actual time when we can get 3 wards is now way later in game than when we could buy Sightstone. I truly hate this. At least I hope Riot either will reduce the quest goal gold from 500 to something cheaper, or will let us get 3 wards upon completion of the quest, not when we go back to the base afterwards.

Support role was never my first choice, but I didn't mind taking it, thanks to all the effort Riot put in previously to make it interesting. Now, I can't see how I could enjoy the support role.

Colgate GatorJan 25, 20181 votes

Don't worry, nobody will get fired over your petty rant.

You're just throwing insults because you don't like a change they made, but hey, it's nice of you to worry that they'd get fired.

RikudouSennin007Jan 25, 20181 votes

i don't wish them to get fired. what i do wish is that they step up their "reworks" since what they did was absolutely terrible and incompetent for a team of high level players responsible for the balance of an entire game. and yeah... the deleted post i was a bit of a thunderstorm that channeled it's rage in to a boards post. if you read the updated post, i think it will sound a little better