What's the point in being anything but a tank anymore?

Mèphìstö·Apr 10, 2016·14 votes·1,579 views

Pretty much as the title suggests. I've been playing since season 2, and as many have said... this is the worst season yet. I find it absolutely ridiculous that a tank can two shot me while having 5k health, and my hits at full build just tickling them.

What's the point in playing mage or adc when a support can dive you under turret at level 6-7 and kill you? The turrets right now barely even tickle enemies.

I'm just fed up with getting rolled by tanks and dived under turret all the time without there hardly being an risk. This game has turned from a somewhat skill based game to who can out tank who. It's disgusting.

36 Comments

redniwediSApr 10, 20168 votes

Please try not to continue spreading this whole "tank" thing.

Tanks carry with their ability to control with CC and bulk. They can have damage, but not every tank does, or scales well enough to use it after the early game without heavy investment into damage items. Even then they are often outscaled.

Tanks do not two shot people with 5k health. In fact no one can two shot someone while having 5k health unless that person is incredibly behind in level.

Tanks are not tanks simply because they build defensive items. It's an entire role and playstyle, not a set of stats.

So please, do not continue complaining about tanks doing "tons of damage". Complain about assassins, fighters, and other roles building tons of defense without their damage being properly low as a result.

EDIT:

This game has turned from a somewhat skill based game to who can out tank who.

As opposed to who can out DPS who? That's hardly any more skillful than who can take the most damage.

League hasn't been about personal skill in a long time. Personal skill still effects whether you win or lose in many cases, but the direction the game has been going in for a while now is about which team can coordinate the best at the earliest point possible.

BronzoidApr 11, 20163 votes

They want League to be a low skill game, so they buff tanks. Tanks take 0 skill to play.

WolfessApr 11, 20166 votes

{quoted}

They want League to be a low skill game, so they buff tanks. Tanks take 0 skill to play.

http://imageshack.com/a/img924/1548/PbrPVV.jpg

HahahahyenaApr 11, 20161 votes

Specially with the point and click cc that riot fills them with

RalanrApr 11, 20163 votes

If by "tanks" you mean Garen Darius DrMundo Volibear and Illaoi or champions that are pretty much giant walls with little to no CC, then please stop calling them tanks.

Because they AREN'T tanks.

iNathhApr 10, 20162 votes

You've been playing since Season 4, not season 2... You're just like most people who come on the boards complaining about the state of the meta - saying you've been playing for so many years and seeing the game change makes you sad.

The game has been in much worse states than this, this isn't even the peak of tank meta - remember late Season 5? Everyone was tank. Even playing adc tank was viable (Morde), because everyone did damage and items favoured tanks.

I see you main adc/mid, but you don't adjust your build at all. Always the same. Try getting tank-killing items like Lord Dominik's rather than assassin-based items like Duskblade.

+1.5% damage per 50 HP difference, capped at 500 HP difference, plus the 45% bonus armour pen.

Tanks these days almost always get Iceborn + Sunfire, giving them 95 Armour. You penetrate most of it. You say they have 5k HP, well that's not quite accurate - maybe 4k at most. As an adc/mid you should have around 2000 base HP, meaning there's 2000 HP difference.

This means Lord Dominik's will almost always give max. damage bonus, so killing tanks should be fine if you know how to kite properly.

Whilst turret diving is easy these days, it is avoidable - simply by walking away if you know it's going to end up with you dying. Outer turrets are fine to lose, you should be able to trade one for one - if 4 members come bot side to turret dive you, your top lane should either be looking to tp to counter-engage, or pushing in top to get the turret.

If you're getting dove under Inner Turrets, call your team. The enemy have no turret for a long way, so have to risk fighting. Usually siege's start with 2 or 3 pushing in the minion wave just before reaching your Inner, giving your team enough time to get down to your lane to help you.

Mid lane siege's on the Inner Turret aren't as easily countered, because the enemy have a lot more escape routes. Focus the minions, if your team comp has no wave clear then you've done something wrong in the draft.

You really shouldn't be dived under Inhib/Nexus turrets unless you're on your own. This rarely happens, maybe if the enemy have set up a good split push. Try to get your team balanced out on each Inhib, so you lower the chance of being dove. The enemy should focus the tower and not you, so focus the minions and they can't get the turret. Or, if you have enough burst, you can force them off the turret by putting them on low HP.

HahahahyenaApr 11, 20162 votes

ADC/mages are always the ones getting focused down so while you're building anti tank the other enemies next to said tank are building anti carry so it is nearly impossible to just ignore the carries and go for the tank, visa versa
Tanks can't 2 shot you but they sure can kill you with 2 rotations of spells when they are the ones supposed to be tabky not damagey even if you build defense on a carry you still are prone to being completely demolished by a tank because the longer they live the more damage you take because of them that be from tank or carry (since carries are always behind them)
Turrets are to protect you early and not late, turrets are a joke right now because you can just dive them willy nilly and still get out
If you wave clear that's one less ability to use while the enemy plans on diving you and even then wave clear abilities aren't always successful in clearing wave

Just this meta in general is completely fucked and needs finer tuning and people who actually wants to continue making a better game, not just devs who want better L¢$ plays

Critmaster GarenApr 11, 20163 votes

{quoted}

ADC/mages are always the ones getting focused down so while you're building anti tank the other enemies next to said tank are building anti carry so it is nearly impossible to just ignore the carries and go for the tank, visa versa

Tanks can't 2 shot you but they sure can kill you with 2 rotations of spells when they are the ones supposed to be tabky not damagey even if you build defense on a carry you still are prone to being completely demolished by a tank because the longer they live the more damage you take because of them that be from tank or carry (since carries are always behind them)

Turrets are to protect you early and not late, turrets are a joke right now because you can just dive them willy nilly and still get out

If you wave clear that's one less ability to use while the enemy plans on diving you and even then wave clear abilities aren't always successful in clearing wave

Just this meta in general is completely fucked and needs finer tuning and people who actually wants to continue making a better game, not just devs who want better L¢$ plays

then stop running duo adc teamcomps
mages arent suppsoed to kill them with 2 rotations of their spells. their job is it to burst down squishies and act as second supports vs. tanks and fighters due to all the gigantic amounts of cc and utility in their kits. usually youre not suppsoed to 1v1 a tank or fighter as a marksman either. marksmen bring the highest possible amount of sustained damage to the game. their downside is that theyre heavily team reliant. which brings me back to point 1. if youre running 2 marksmen, then you have less teammates to cover your ass.
this one i can agree one. riot wants flashy LC$ big plays, so theyre nerfing turrets in a way that hypermobile champions can easily dive you at lvl 2 while making it look risky. bruisers and tanks usually cant afford to dive until around lvl 5 or lvl 6 after theyve bought a few defensive items, since theyre taking much more turret shots on average than mobile assassins. and suince the first few turret shots dont deal full damage, they can often afford to take 1 or 2 hits.
waveclearing can still help protect you towards extremely early dives from fighters and tanks. it usually means they would have to take 1 or 2 extra shots that they often cant afford to take.

HahahahyenaApr 11, 20161 votes

Yes tanks should be second hand supports but when they have too much damage to basically destroy a carry cough cough Darius, malphite cough cough its bs, if something is to be tanky it shouldn't do massive amounts of damage visa versa, but that's where the tanks lie right now, massive damage and unbreakable protections with so much cc that it just demolishes carries cough cough poppy, tank ekko cough cough and again its a load of bs. Carries are the ones supposed to be doing most of the damage not the tanks.

RalanrApr 11, 20162 votes

Darius isn't a fucking tank! He's a juggernaut damn it!

HahahahyenaApr 11, 20161 votes

Either way he shouldn't have massive damage to basically 1 shot a carry while taking barely any damage

RalanrApr 11, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Either way he shouldn't have massive damage to basically 1 shot a carry while taking barely any damage

Takes a deep breath

I cannot believe we are still having this problem. Do people really not understand the freaking point of a juggernaut and the inherent weakness of a glass cannon carry?

I mean good freaking god. The point of a juggernaut is a tanky carry who is weak to kiting. They build tanky, but they have very few things to keep people on them. The only juggernaut who has ways to keep people on him is Darius , and if you can avoid his hook then he can't do anything. You kill juggernauts by kiting them, which is apparently a very advanced tactic since people can't seem to fucking grasp it.

As for 1 shotting carries (which bytheway probably has to do with a juggernaut being fed or a carry not being fed), you do realize that not building defensive items has a downside right? Hell item 3026 was considered the carry defensive item for a long time for its passive. A passive that requires you do die to activate.

Carries are not durable. They are expected to die quickly if they get focused on. That's the entire point of having people peel for them, so they can survive long enough to kill people. That's the trade off of ranged sustained damage: You being fucked if they get up close to you.

Hell a lot of marksmen have ways to avoid this! Vayne tumbles, Ashe slows, Twitch goes invisible, and Jhin has traps that slow people! They have tools in their kit to keep people away from them because being upclose is their weakness! While these juggernauts have tools for getting closer because being upclose is their strength!

Again, Anything can kill an ADC. This isn't something new or wrong. This is the price you pay for having the most damage potential. After all, Glass isn't a very durable substance most of the time.

HahahahyenaApr 11, 20161 votes

You act like theyre the only thing the carry has to worry about, while you have GA Midlane assassin over here would've popped it a while ago before Darius even got into the fight, even if you do build armor for Darius, guess what he has true damage for no reason other than to fuck carries. Either you kill Darius while the enemy carries kill you or you kill enemy carries while Darius kills you. Don't just pretend that the enemy carries don't exist. Darius shouldn't be able to be tanky as hell and do massive damage even if you kite him, if he lands just 1 hook you might as well just paint your screen gray

RalanrApr 11, 20161 votes

{quoted}

You act like theyre the only thing the carry has to worry about, while you have GA Midlane assassin over here would've popped it a while ago before Darius even got into the fight, even if you do build armor for Darius, guess what he has true damage for no reason other than to fuck carries. Either you kill Darius while the enemy carries kill you or you kill enemy carries while Darius kills you. Don't just pretend that the enemy carries don't exist. Darius shouldn't be able to be tanky as hell and do massive damage even if you kite him, if he lands just 1 hook you might as well just paint your screen gray

Of course they aren't the only thing a carry has to worry about. Carries have to worry about being hit be anyone short of the support (unless it's a poke "support" like . But fuck Brand) because carries are the biggest threat of the enemy team.

I mean what do you think happens when you have the highest damage potential of the team and are best at clearing towers? People just ignore you?

As for Darius true damage ult, well that's an execute. That's suppose to be able to kill people. So what?

You seem to be speaking in situations where you are alone. You know this is a team game right? Where you have teammates to peel and protect for you? You can't 1v1 everyone.

HahahahyenaApr 11, 20161 votes

I never said an ADC should always be able to 1v1 I was talking about how darius is able to just focus out and kill the carries while being so tanky he barely takes any damage from everyone else, he shouldn't be as tanky as he is for how much damage he does

RalanrApr 11, 20161 votes

Again, that's on your team not being able to peel him.

HahahahyenaApr 11, 20161 votes

How can you peel against something can can just ignore the cc and go straight to the carry after the cc duration

RalanrApr 11, 20161 votes

{quoted}

How can you peel against something can can just ignore the cc and go straight to the carry after the cc duration

Well (and this is how DrMundo is usually killed) I tend to see everyone focus the guy once he is CCed down. If your whole team can't kill him or make him low enough to desire to retreat, then you're all too far behind to really do much in teamfights.

If he's in a teamfight, you need to keep away from him. That means having people throw CC on top of CC on him.

Then you have item 3123 to hurt his self healing. Which as a carry facing a Darius (who I'm guessing is fed) you have no excuse to not buy it and later upgrade it to item 3033 .

HahahahyenaApr 11, 20161 votes

Again you're acting like darius is the only thing the team has to deal with, you use cc on him "hey here comes Lucian" you cc the enemy carries "oh hey look darius has already executed our ADC" even then darius will just wait out the cc and continue going for the carry

RalanrApr 11, 20161 votes

It's not like it's your frontline's job to keep people from getting to the backline. There are tanks with AoE CC to target multiple people, and it's your job as the carry to take out those targets once they are CCed.

HahahahyenaApr 11, 20161 votes

even though darius is nearly impossible to kill quickly? if he survives that cc then you might as well be fucked

RalanrApr 11, 20161 votes

Guess it all depends on whether you let him get fed or not.

HahahahyenaApr 11, 20161 votes

which is hard not to do because hes a total lane bully

RalanrApr 12, 20161 votes

It's the same with Pantheon . Don't try to thrive in top, just survive. It prevents a bully from getting fed.

I used to main Pantheon back in season five. Bullies can't do shit if you avoid them.

HahahahyenaApr 12, 20161 votes

how can you avoid it when all he needs to do is roam into another lane to get fed, its jsut amazing to see how easy it is to just need a bit of gold to snowball so hard

Critmaster GarenApr 11, 20162 votes

{quoted}

Yes tanks should be second hand supports but when they have too much damage to basically destroy a carry cough cough Darius, malphite cough cough its bs, if something is to be tanky it shouldn't do massive amounts of damage visa versa, but that's where the tanks lie right now, massive damage and unbreakable protections with so much cc that it just demolishes carries cough cough poppy, tank ekko cough cough and again its a load of bs. Carries are the ones supposed to be doing most of the damage not the tanks.

fucking hell. bruisers are not tanks.

darius is not a tank. his job is to carry just like any adc.

HahahahyenaApr 11, 20161 votes

By being as tanky if not tankier than a regular tank? Lol great balancing

Critmaster GarenApr 11, 20162 votes

{quoted}

By being as tanky if not tankier than a regular tank? Lol great balancing

does he have hard engage like sion or malphite? or aoe cc like sejuani or leona? no. he has damage.

the reason why hes so tanky is, because he builds tanky and because he has to be able to get into the middle of the enemy team to deal damage and probably gets focused by multiple opponents.

and he has to do so without even having a defense steroid. the only thing he has is a missing health heal and that requies some really good positioning to consistently hit 3 opponents at once to sustain you through a fight.

HahahahyenaApr 11, 20161 votes

You too are acting like enemy carries don't exist. While the team is trying to kill the other carries tanky ass darius over here is just waltzing into the back line because the tanks are too busy trying to get the enemy carries. Plus the only defense steroid he needs is his base tankyness and 4-5 defense items which makes him as tanky if not tankier than regular tanks

Critmaster GarenApr 11, 20162 votes

{quoted}

You too are acting like enemy carries don't exist. While the team is trying to kill the other carries tanky ass darius over here is just waltzing into the back line because the tanks are too busy trying to get the enemy carries. Plus the only defense steroid he needs is his base tankyness and 4-5 defense items which makes him as tanky if not tankier than regular tanks

if he waltzed into your backline your entire team seriously fucked up.

and your second point is plain stupid. a tank with 4 or 5 defensive items and a defense steroid is most definitely gonna be tankier than darius.

a leona with the same build as darius will be tankier than him due to her w alone.

garen has a pretty strong defense steroind on his w, but in return hes only really strong against a single target and doesnt snowball through a teamfight the longer hes alive.

no chance for penta dunks, but stronger in 1v1 against the villain.

HahahahyenaApr 11, 20161 votes

Well darius waltz into the teamfight because our cc cannons have already been blown to try and get the enemy carries and even if we use our cc on him he still has a lot of health because of his bs tankiness and his unnecessary heal

Critmaster GarenApr 11, 20163 votes

{quoted}

The game has been in much worse states than this, this isn't even the peak of tank meta - remember late Season 5? Everyone was tank. Even playing adc tank was viable (Morde), because everyone did damage and items favoured tanks.

there is so much wrong with this part of your post, it took a while to sorth through that.

bruisers arent tanks. morde is a bruiser.
the end of season 5 after they balanced rework juggs has been the most balanced state this game has seen in years. there was no tank meta. everyone had their place. mordes kit was an issue and didnt work out as intended, but the game in general didnt feel as shitty as now.
adc means "attack damage carry" and has nothing to do with bot lane as a strategic position. if you play morde on bot, that doesnt make him an adc. if you play a marksman on mid or top, that doesnt mean hes suddenly not an adc.
you make it sound as if morde wasnt intended to be played bot with a support, when that was a huge part of his rework and not because of the new items.
you make it sound as if playing anything but adc on bot lane is inherently wrong.

im not commenting much on the state of the game right now. ive done that a lot of threads. but to summorize it, the problem right now is how bruiser and tank items are available to classes of champions they shouldnt be available to. missing melee only tags on iceborn gauntlet and steraks, and scaling adjustings for assassins to be less effective with bruiser items than squishy damage builds.

steraks gage increases base ad instead of bonus ad. if riot would adjust assassin scalings towards bonus ad, the damage on the item wouldnt factor into their abilities and it would suddenly become a terrible choice on them.

this is all not an inherent problem of bruiser items, but certin champions not yet being balanced around these items existing.

Br4ndonApr 10, 20162 votes

Whenever i play ADC it seems like me and my mid laner are the tanks and my tank top/jungle/support are the carries. Everyone focuses mid and i then they finish the 20 minute long teamfight.

t0ad5Apr 11, 20162 votes

No, no. You pick a non-tank, build 1, maybe 2 smg items, then defense.