5 years of Flash
When is Flash going to be changed so that it's not a requirement on 9/10 champs, 99 out of 100 times?
When is Flash going to be changed so that it's not a requirement on 9/10 champs, 99 out of 100 times?
I like Flash.
-It has a high enough cooldown that you're unlikely to have it two fights in a row.
-It makes a lot of champion picks viable in otherwise impossible situations - ex: Couldn't imagine picking Ashe into J4 if flash didn't exist.
-It allows you to outplay your opponent by dodging something at an unexpected time or engaging them in an unexpected way
-It allows you to escape from otherwise impossible situations (or force the flash of multiple players to keep you in that impossible situation making it a worthwhile trade)
It has a lot of versatility. This is another thing people complain about that just doesn't make sense to me. The game already has a ton of diversity, flash being an extremely common pick isn't a problem because it opens up a lot of strategic options just by existing.
You don't see how it's a problem that only 5 summoner spells see any use at all, and that Flash is seen on 9/10 champions in almost every single game?
No, I really don't see that as a problem. You have choices in summoners.
Ignite if you want to win lane hard or you need grievous wounds. Barrier if you need defense through ignite Heal if you need defense/movespeed, esp. in duo situations Exhaust if you want to gimp someone in a fight Teleport if you need map mobility
Flash taking up 1 slot leaves you with another slot for variety. If flash wasn't a guaranteed slot then you'd get people going heal + barrier and suddenly they're impossible to kill. That's a problem. Or you have people going ignite exhaust and they kill you while you're unable to do anything about it. That's a problem.
Flash isn't a problem.
No, I really don't see that as a problem. You have choices in summoners.
You can choose Flash, or you can lose. Great choices, there. Flash is a problem, has been since Beta.
BTW guys I don't care about your imaginary Reddit karma. Downvoting me doesn't make me wrong.
You can choose Flash, or you can lose. Great choices, there. Flash is a problem, has been since Beta.
How is it any different than how Bot takes Heal 99% of the time? Or top pretty much always takes Teleport? Recently we have had top not even take flash at times and went Teleport+Smite and before that Hec was taking Teleport+Ignite. SO, it's already been shown you don't need to take flash but most people are taking flash because it's what "everyone is doing". Not many people experiment and simply use what everyone else is.
While I hate flash's necessity as much as the next guy, you've got to admit it is the most versatile spell.
To be fair, it's a combination of Flash being too good and every other summoner spell being awful. Clarity, anyone?
To be fair, it's a combination of Flash being too good and every other summoner spell being awful. Clarity, anyone?
where's surge? :( omfg
RIP Surge, taken from us too soon ;_;
To be fair, it's a combination of Flash being too good and every other summoner spell being awful. Clarity, anyone?
Well they've made smite pretty great now. Necessity on one champ per team, popular lately to have two. Ignite is a nice damage boost and negates most healing, good for snowballing and winning fights you would normally lose. Exhaust I would say is the second most versatile spell. You can use it to win fights you normally wouldn't, slow down enemies to chase, slow down enemies that are chasing you, survive long enough for more people to show up, and assist with kiting or peeling. Heal's pretty great as well. MS burst for two people, heal for two people, catches a lot of people off guard and has many uses. TP is also an amazing spell, use it to split push, stop split pushers, get back to lane faster, gank, show up to objective fights, help out caught out teammates. Cleanse is okay, surprised I'm not seeing more of it in this CC heavy tank meta. Ghost is used rarely, but isn't nearly as good as flash. Barrier, much like Ghost to Flash, is overshadowed by Heal. I think an easy fix would be to make the cooldown of Heal higher than Barrier, and increase the duration of Barrier to 2.5 seconds.
Riot on the removal of DFG:
"The second reason is strongly tied to the first; removing this item gives us room to buff champion kits that would otherwise be overpowered if they could use DFG. The most obvious example is Ahri; more ‘magey’ elements of the character, like her sustained damage or kiting, end up getting washed out because she has so much power to blow up charmed targets with a DFG burst. This ends up forcing us to balance Ahri around her assassin playstyle because there’s always the “I can buy DFG” route to consider; removing the item means we can buff her in more interesting ways while still keeping some of her burst because she can’t just pick up a DFG and double down on a single playstyle."
HMM SOUND FAMILIAR? its not like everyone can only pick one summoner spell because flash is almost required to play the game now. When was the last time you saw a jungler that wasnt
take any other summs than
?
Precisely this. The existence of flash removes the option of a second summoner spell from most champions. This makes it easier for them to balance kits because you won't have weak laners running barrier + heal and just surviving easy, or duelists running ignite + exhaust and simply destroying people on the cooldown of their summoners.
Flash provides a lot of interesting and strategic gameplay and it's not a bad thing to have as a staple for champions.
This is so stupid it makes my head spin.
"Seeing the same spell on every champion in every game is interesting and strategic." Really?
In this thread you've made a lot of blanket statements like this, but you've provided zero logic to back your claim. Why don't you prove me wrong, instead of just pretending you're right? I know ego is a tough thing to overcome, but you can still try to salvage it by arguing intelligently.
Intelligent arguments are reserved for people who aren't obviously brainwashed by Riot.
Seeing the same spell on every champion in every game is neither interesting nor strategic.
A silly excuse to avoid defending your theory. You've already given up but you refuse to admit it, and now you're resorting to ad hominem because fallacy is your only remaining defense. I hope you learn from this mistake and grow out of it someday. Good bye :]
What fallacy? Seeing the same spell on every champion in every game is neither interesting nor strategic. You have yet to refute this, instead relying on your Riot-approved catchphrases.
To be fair, I take ghost on some junglers, like Sejuani or Rammus.
It is different. Here Flash isn't holding anyone back - no one has been nerfed or changed simply because flash exists.
In fact, it is holding people up. Without flash, what would immobile champions do? Die, probably. much more than now. How can you buff all the champions that need it in interesting ways that you can't do if flash exists.
The situations are not comparable.
People might actually have to learn how to position their champions and pay attention to their surroundings instead of relying on Flash as a noob crutch? Sounds great!
Even with perfect positioning and flash some champions are easy to catch out. Given the amount of mobility some champions have, Flash isn't a crutch - it is necessary for survival. Taking Flash from those with mobility wouldn't be bad. Taking Flash from those without will make them completely unviable.
An analogy. Removing Flash would be like taking £10,000 away from everyone. The poor are going to feel it more. Sure, that is 10,000 the rich don't need that is taken away, but loads of people will starve.
Then why do the high-mobility champions also take Flash?
It's because the only counter to Flash is Flash. Unhealthy gameplay.
Because it is more useful? To keep the same analogy, lets say that a person needs a minimum of £20,000 to survive. They earn only 10,000 a year. Obviously, if everyone is offered a gift up to £10,000 they will have to take Flash.
Which gift would the rich people take? Who wouldn't take the most money?
So you're admitting that Flash is overpowered? That it's the best summoner spell in the game? That it's pretty much mandatory to take, even if you don't even really need it all that much?
Best summoner spell in the game? Certainly. Mandatory? Certainly. A bad thing because of this? No. Certainly not.
Think of the game with flash removed. The only way you can keep the immobile champions viable is to buff their damage to insane levels, making interactions awfully binary. This, or keeping them unviable, are much worse than the alternative of keeping Flash.
Heroes of the Storm doesn't have Flash and it seems to be doing just fine.
Probably because HotS isn't balanced around the existence of Flash.
Probably because HotS isn't balanced around the existence of Flash.
HotS is technically balanced around multiple concepts that would never be applicable to League without uprooting everything that makes the game the way it is.
The important thing to this discussion, is that items, summoner spells, runes and masteries don't exist in Heroes of the Storm. You rely upon your choice of Hero, Talents at every 3-4 levels and proper foresight and tactical gameplay to utilitze them in tandem. For example, if playing against an Abathur you need to be able to guess whether he's planning on upgrading his Locusts and planning on Splitpushing with a Monstrocity Evolution, or taking Symbiote and focusing on a more Support-oriented playstyle? it's also a hell of a lot more Team-Oriented than League is (Comebacks are honestly harder on Heroes of the Storm, maps like the Dragon Shrine are designed to encourage Snowballing.)
Flash does exist in Heroes of the Storm but it's a Talent on a select few Heroes at level 20 which is usually eclipsed by a more powerful option like upgrading your Heroic Ability.
It's actually quite improbable to actually nerf Flash at this point. Riot said that the Benefits of making Flash a requirement, outway the drawbacks. Nerfing it to oblivion will also completely turn the balancing over it's head. (since almost all champs were balanced around that.)
I would recommend focusing slightly more unique mobility on champs that actually make exceptions to the requirement of Flash. Much how Herc and Shaco can do without Flash. Perhaps adding a little power on the Alternative summoner spells.
It's actually both probable and easy to nerf Flash. Riot just doesn't want to.
You just want to bitch about something, don't you?
Honestly I don't understand why Flash is a Summoner Spell and not just an ability you always have.
they can't nerf it because then people just wouldn't take it. Either leave it as it is or remove it. Ghost used to be in flash's position a very long time ago I recall Then it got nerfed and everyone went to the next best thing, flash.
Flash has been nerfed, but never in a meaningful way.
Just ditch flash and make a blink dagger analog. Its the only real way.
flash will always be staple unless its gone.
I
tee I won't destroy your team with it.
Flash should be given as an active to the boots. Then everyone will have it without sacrificing a summoner spell slot.
So, from the amount of upvotes that Flash defenders are receiving, I take it that the average LoL player actually ENJOYS playing an unbalanced game.
I don't think the problem lies with
. As others mentioned on this thread, it's an extremely versatile spell that allows for tons of cool gameplay that would otherwise be extremely difficult, if not impossible to achieve. It also sets a good pace for the game, encouraging players to make risky moves early on, and without Flash the early game would likely be a lot more conservative, and therefore less interesting.
If anything, the issue lies more with the less favored summoner spells. Whereas spells like
,
,
,
and
all have unique and awesome power that makes them worth picking, spells like {{summoner:2}} ,
,
and
(with the exception of a few champions) don't really offer that same strength or versatility, and could definitely do with updates, just as Heal was reworked to replace Barrier as the premium marksman-oriented and player-saving spell.
feels really badly designed, and fills a niche that by all rights shouldn't exist (no mana champion should rely on a spell as a crutch for mana issues), so it might be better for that one to be scrapped completely.
:( why rito why
The day every champion has mobility in their kit. Never.
Not Saying you can't get a none flash kill on this guy but IT'S hard at times
There was a time when clairvoyance and flash were the two most useful spells. Clairvoyance died down for some reason even though map control will never go out of meta
Riot just needs to buff Ghost a bit and that would give people a legit reason to take it over flash.